Motherwell V St Johnstone 30/08/14

[Spiderpig]

A relegation battle might reignite interest for some. Another £23 saved today.

 

How fortunate we are to have committed and loyal fans like you supporting the team..

[StipeIsGod]

I certainly think the first two subs (Erwin and McHugh for Law and Ojamaa) took the impetus out our team. But we were tiring before the changes so he had to do something. Did it cost us a point? Maybe, Was I unhappy when he made the changes? Certainly not.

 

He built this team. He retained shite like McHugh.

 

Changes for the sake of it aren't necessarily a bonus.

[Kmcalpin]

A slight improvement on previous games but not much. Still posed no threat going forward and central midfield was woeful and some of the substitutions were a bit baffling (ZFA was injured I agree). Mark O'Brien was a standout and I was impressed. I'm not a Twardzik fan but he had a great game - credit where its due. Also had about 4 efforts on target, although I use the word "efforts" in its loosest sense. Mannus in the Saints goal never broke sweat. Saints just deserved the 3 points although there wasn't much in it.

 

Our central midfield was woeful - it lacked pace and creativity and was too often caught dithering when a quick single pass was required. Again they defended too deeply and allowed Saints to see the whites of Twardzik's eyes. Keith Lasley kept getting caught on the wrong side of his opponent. Lawson was ponderous and anonymous, but in his defence he was nowhere near match fit - Ojamaa likewise was well off the pace. Law was played in the totally wrong position until he switched with Ojamaa in the second 45.

 

I understand why ZFA was taken off but really didn't see why Lee Erwin was brought on to play left midfield or even left back. John Sutton is not suited to the role he is being asked to play and he must be brassed off..

 

I didn't like St Johnstone's tactics but to their credit they worked, although they rode their luck a bit. By contrast our tactics at times were unfathomable.

 

Its becoming clear that our loss of form isn't solely attributable to the loss of Faddy, Hutchinson and Anier, and our injuries. There's clearly more to it than that. I don't think we can simply shrug our shoulders and rely on hard work and returning injured players to solve the problems.

[rednaz]

Mate I agree it was a better performance........but you state that Law is no comfortable at left midfield player...n

 

But that was the substitution that cost us a point.........Law for Erwin??????

 

A rookie at SPL footballer who plays up front has been handed a midfield role in our last 2 home games......why?????

 

After that master stoke it was only a matter of time..........why not bring on Leitch ????

 

I fear the worst this season when McCall is constantly playing players in the wrong position/area

 

 

 

I may be biased here however bang on, Erwin has played 90 mins versus STMIRREN at centre. Since then he has played left wing all the games since apart from 5-10mins here and there. I see Mc Call has blamed Lee for goal in his post review, utter nonsense, when did McCall last take blame or said he could have done better?

[Andy_P]

Yes......that's what cost us a point.......totally in/un balanced the team

 

I'm still struggling with this one, sorry.

 

If you had said playing Law playing at left-mid from the off didn't work then I'd have agreed with you. In fact I said as much in my original post.

 

If Erwin had come on and went straight to left-midfield I would probably agree that wouldn't have been my ideal choice there too.

Saying that it unbalanced things by having to shift a right-back to left-back to cover for an injured defender in ZFA, yeah I'd agree with that too even.

 

But going to elaborate for me on how Erwin for Law, a pretty much like-for-like swap in the middle of the park, two injuries, two further substitutions and 20 minutes before their goal directly cost us the game as you are implying?

 

Erwin took up a "Central Position".................(Central fir park???)

 

 

Centrally doing what ????? ..................Did it create anything????????

 

Can you say hand on heart that was the best swap that could have ben made at 0-0???

 

No it didn't in the end. But did he contribute anything less going forward than Law did when he was out on the left? Don't think he was any worse.

 

But at the particular stage of the game when we are looking for a win and have a wee bit of momentum behind us if you're asking would I back the manager for bringing on a striker for a right-back/midfielder/utility/whateverpositionheis to try to go for the three point, then aye, I'd go for that substitution pretty much most times.

 

Other than damaging another young players confidence/morale playing him in an unnatural position

 

I take it you didn't buy a programme today then?

 

Lee Erwin: Motherwell v St Johnstone match programme 30.08.14

 

I have played a few games on the left. I don't mind really as long as I play

 

I don't see his confidence being dented too severely in all honesty.

 

Ojamaa was" goosed" = (feckin shite/could not control a bag off sand) = Boab

 

Ojamaa being "feckin shite" as you put it. You wouldn't have been too uphappy by his substitution then?

 

[Thankfully you agreed It poses a question certainly as to why player were not consider for the correct position............Don Thomas in goals...............

Sorry but that last bit I can't help but laugh. You don't happen to do the Evil Kagawa parody twitter account do you?

[Kmcalpin]

I may be biased here however bang on, Erwin has played 90 mins versus STMIRREN at centre. Since then he has played left wing all the games since apart from 5-10mins here and there. I see Mc Call has blamed Lee for goal in his post review, utter nonsense, when did McCall last take blame or said he could have done better?

I haven't heard the Stuart McCall interview, but in fairness Lee Erwin was played out of position as you say. He is not and never will be a left midfield player or left back. When he came on his positioning completely baffled us.

 

 

 

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

[/size]

 

I'm still struggling with this one, sorry.

 

If you had said playing Law playing at left-mid from the off didn't work then I'd have agreed with you. In fact I said as much in my original post.

 

If Erwin had come on and went straight to left-midfield I would probably agree that wouldn't have been my ideal choice there too.

Saying that it unbalanced things by having to shift a right-back to left-back to cover for an injured defender in ZFA, yeah I'd agree with that too even.

 

two injuries, two further substitutions and 20 minutes before their goal directly cost us the game as you are implying?

 

 

No it didn't in the end. But did he contribute anything less going forward than Law did when he was out on the left? Don't think he was any worse.

 

But at the particular stage of the game when we are looking for a win and have a wee bit of momentum behind us if you're asking would I back the manager for bringing on a striker for a right-back/midfielder/utility/whateverpositionheis to try to go for the three point, then aye, I'd go for that substitution pretty much most times.

 

 

 

I take it you didn't buy a programme today then?

 

Lee Erwin: Motherwell v St Johnstone match programme 30.08.14

 

 

 

I don't see his confidence being dented too severely in all honesty.

 

 

 

Ojamaa being "feckin shite" as you put it. You wouldn't have been too uphappy by his substitution then?

 

 

Sorry but that last bit I can't help but laugh. You don't happen to do the Evil Kagawa parody twitter account do you?

 

 

 

 

 

But going to elaborate for me on how Erwin for Law,is a pretty much a like-for-like swap in the middle of the park,..........

 

 

"Like for Like.".................why has Erwin being played up front ? Or is he now a midfielder?????

 

Then why has he never started in midfield ?????.......that's right feck me how many games has he started ??????

 

Law was LEFT MIDFIELD...........NOT LEFT UP FRONT........Erwin is a forward......and this left the team unbalanced as Law played in midfield........

 

We started the game with

 

Sutton a Forward Ojamaa a Forward Ainsworth a Forward.

 

So when we put on Erwin a "forward" on for Law.........we had 4 four forwards on the park and it went tits up...... we lost a goal as we had not enough cover in midfield...unbalanced and never looked like winning the game after the initial substitution

 

again did you think Henirk had a good game mate ???????.......replaced by Boab the shame

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

[/size]

 

 

I take it you didn't buy a programme today then?

 

Lee Erwin: Motherwell v St Johnstone match programme 30.08.14

 

 

"I have played a few games on the left. I don't mind really as long as I play"

 

 

Maybe in the next programme you could ask him if that "left" is up front or in midfield......

 

But he will probably say as young player that is anxious keen to get a game and keep his place"I don't mind really as long as I play"

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

I thought the spine of the team was much better today. Twardzik did well, McManus is frustrating and some of his passing is shocking but O'Brien looked good. I thought Lasley and Lawson did OK in central midfielder, we certainly didn't get over run in there. Sutton looked more lively as well.

 

However with no Vigurs, no wide left player of any note in the squad and Ojamaa and Ainsworth off the pace then we have very little creativity.

 

We need these players to be on their game because otherwise we don't have the ability to fashion opportunities.

 

Ojamaa needs to be switched to the left wing permanently. Law cannot play there and Ojamaa doesn't score many goals and shouldn't be taking up a front spot.

[maxywell]

That was one of the worst games I've ever been at and it deserved to be 0-0 just for the fact that both teams were sh1t.

 

 

 

We showed a slight improvement in the second half but St Johnstone looked a pretty poor side too.

 

 

 

Lasley and the 2 centre backs had decent games but the rest were poor, Ojamaa tried too hard, Ainsworth didn't get on the ball enough, ZFA is not a defender, Reid just isn't good enough for me.If this is our level then it's a relegation battle this season.

 

 

 

Another terrible crowd as well, our home crowds are dropping by the game.

[StipeIsGod]

This idea that ZFA is not a defender amuses me.

 

ZFA is not a professional fucking football player.

[Andy_P]

But going to elaborate for me on how Erwin for Law,is a pretty much a like-for-like swap in the middle of the park,..........[/size]

 

 

"Like for Like.".................why has Erwin being played up front ? Or is he now a midfielder?????

 

Then why has he never started in midfield ?????.......that's right feck me how many games has he started ??????

 

Law was LEFT MIDFIELD...........NOT LEFT UP FRONT........Erwin is a forward......and this left the team unbalanced as Law played in midfield........

 

We started the game with

 

Sutton a Forward Ojamaa a Forward Ainsworth a Forward.

 

So when we put on Erwin a "forward" on for Law.........we had 4 four forwards on the park and it went tits up...... we lost a goal as we had not enough cover in midfield...unbalanced and never looked like winning the game after the initial substitution

 

again did you think Henirk had a good game mate ???????.......replaced by Boab the shame

 

Okay, I think this one we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one PW.

 

You're pretty insistent you think Erwin came on to replace Law at left-midfield.

 

I'm pretty sure that for the first 20 minutes of the second half Law had swapped with Ojamaa and was playing just off John Sutton through the middle, and that's the position Erwin originally came on at.

 

Yes at that point we had four players in advanced positions but that was no different to how we had lined up throughout the whole of the second half to that point.

 

For me your game changers are Ojamaa going off, which if he hadn't I very much doubt Erwin would have been moved out left and ZFA going off which wouldn't have required Reid going over from right back.

 

You are convinced it's the Erwin for Law change that set the chain of events moving,

 

I'm sure I'm boring you as well as everyone else so right or wrong I'll leave it at that on this one.

[Noah Dosser]

About time we started smelling the coffee.

 

We have admitidly punched above our weight over the last couple of years, but it was only a matter of time before SM's luck ran out.

 

We have a very limited squad and a manager who has very little faith or trust in younger players as has been shown over the last few seasons during his time in charge.

 

Lack of foresight and a reluctance to trust younger players are SM's achilles heel and are costing points regularly.

 

Sad to say it, as I really do like him as a manager, but play players whatever age in their proper positions !

[Lobey_Dosser]

How fortunate we are to have committed and loyal fans like you supporting the team..

 

No bother. Judging by the attendance figures, I'm not the only one scunnered by a sham of a summer.

[gullane]

I'm not moaning or complaining. After some great form over the last 3-4 years, its time for our wee, skint club to ride out a dip. It's sad to see Sutton and Las showing their age but you can't do anything other than cheer them on. I remember almost crying with frustration 20 years ago when some boo boys got on to Davie Cooper's back for some poor passing. Sad.

 

I don't think McCall made any bad decisions. The subs were the best choices he had. St J scored 2 minutes after McManus got injured.

 

For me, the signs of hope are - O'Brien offered some stability at the back, Lawson put in tackles and pressed where Carswell hasn't, O'jamma's mind for flair looks there; he just needs more match fitness. ZFA, Erwin and Ainsworth played below 100% fitness. A 2 week break should enable Hammell to return.

 

It's far healthier to think positively than moan.

[Kmcalpin]

You're pretty insistent you think Erwin came on to replace Law at left-midfield.

 

I'm pretty sure that for the first 20 minutes of the second half Law had swapped with Ojamaa and was playing just off John Sutton through the middle, and that's the position Erwin originally came on at.

 

Yes at that point we had four players in advanced positions but that was no different to how we had lined up throughout the whole of the second half to that point.

 

For me your game changers are Ojamaa going off, which if he hadn't I very much doubt Erwin would have been moved out left and ZFA going off which wouldn't have required Reid going over from right back.

 

You are convinced it's the Erwin for Law change that set the chain of events moving,

 

I'm sure I'm boring you as well as everyone else so right or wrong I'll leave it at that on this one.

 

Not boring me at all Andy. I think the overall substitutions were important in the latter stages, especially as Stuart McCall seems to be saying that Lee Erwin was in some way culpable for the goal that we lost.

 

In the first half and early part of the second, Law was clearly playing out of position on the left to such an extent that those around me were saying that Leitch should have started instead of Law in that position. He looked very uncomfortable. McCall redeemed himself somewhat, albeit late in the day, by switching Law and the clearly unfit Ojamaa. Erwin then came on for Law. Thats when things began to go wrong. Erwin's natural position is as a striker and we assumed wrongly that he'd play alongside the clearly immobile and tired Sutton. Not so. He played in the centre but deeper and that is not his position. Ojamaa then went off and I've no problem with that. However Erwin was then moved to wide left and he simply does not have the pace for that and looked like a fish out of water. In the event he ended up playing left back for spells and having to run up and down our left flank to little effect. When Ojamaa went off we would have been better to bring Leitch on and play Erwin further forward alongside Sutton. In short we seem to have loads of midfield players but of the wrong kind giving the side an unbalanced look and feel to it.

 

 

[superward]

This idea that ZFA is not a defender amuses me.

 

ZFA is not a professional fucking football player.

 

Don't think he did much wrong yesterday. Tracked his man, made some good tackles and blocks.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I don't see how the McManus injury played much part in the goal. He was shite all match for a start.

 

Reid went to left back when Ramsden came on. The cross came from the left back position and then Ramsden's attempt to win the header was absolutely emabarassing for someone that makes a living as a defender. He loses headers like that just about every time, he's hopeless in the air.

 

I didn't see ZFA signal to come off but even if he did surely we shouldn't have switched 50% of our defence to make one change with 9 minutes to go in a game we desperately needed a point from? Especially when you factor in the left wing changes we made throughout the match.

 

Surely it's a basic that you make as few changes as possible to a back four? I know we have a lot of injuries and partially fit players but sometimes McCall really doesn't help himself.

 

McCall substitutions lost us the match yesterday, no doubt about it.

[milo]

Having watched the highlights back there is absolutely no pressure on the ball whatsoever to stop the cross coming in for the goal! The St Johnstone player can practically pick his spot! This is just sheer laziness and it doesn't really matter who was substituted for whom, this is basic stuff and a real pet hate of mine! Ramsden doesn't cover himself in glory trying to win the header, but stop the cross coming in in the first place and there's no header to win. Really really simple basic stuff that 12 year olds know.

[daver]

Obviously it was disappointing to lose but there were signs of improvement on the previous home games. We were more solid and I though Lawson did a good job of trying to cover in front of the defence and that seemed to help the number of long range shots coming in.

 

Angol played well at left back and there were few crosses from either side while he was on. I wasn't aware he was injured and thought it strange at the time. The organisation seemed to go at the back as Craig was then outnumbered several times and the crosses were coming in, including the one for the goal.

 

There was s definite improvement in terms of trying to play as a unit compared to the first few games when we played with all the players in complete isolation - at least we had players attempting to link up and I thought Ojamma did well at this until he ran out of steam. However he ran out of steam long before he was subbed although I agree Law had to go off as well as he was completely ineffectual - I'm afraid I'm not convinced he has it or at least has been thrown into the first team too early.

 

Anyway, hopefully the break will let us re-group as we'll need to start getting on the board or we'll be under real pressure. I though we were unlucky to lose but we need to get back to some reasonable form or being able to grind out results when we're off it.

[Shire Greats]

1409467056[/url]' post='420423']

No bother. Judging by the attendance figures, I'm not the only one scunnered by a sham of a summer.

 

Of course when we were going well in the past 3 or 4 years the matches were all ticket!

Lots of reasons for falling attendances :cost , tv footy, apathy, etc , dare say there are people scunnered by the European exit, I am one of them, but we just got to try and work our way out of this blip

[Ya Bezzer!]

Stay away fans are going to bury the club.

 

Instead of sitting at home waiting for better times, they are going to be sitting at home with no club to support.

 

Before yesterday we had lost 2 out of 14 home matches yet we are rapidly becoming a sub 4,000 attendance team.

[steelboy]

Stay away fans are going to bury the club.

 

Instead of sitting at home waiting for better times, they are going to be sitting at home with no club to support.

 

Before yesterday we had lost 2 out of 14 home matches yet we are rapidly becoming a sub 4,000 attendance team.

 

the football we are playing is terrible though.

 

we sat through some of the worst football matches ever seen last season and the club responded by putting the prices up. it was obvious crowds were going to decline.

 

the club is asking for more, without giving anything back. look at our summer signings, a tiny keeper, two loans and a non league player on a 1 year deal to complement all the over 30s in the squad. there is nothing there that makes you think we have any long term plans.

 

the club haven't announced how many season tickets we've sold but i would guess it's way down.

[Welldaft Mk1]

the football we are playing is terrible though.

 

we sat through some of the worst football matches ever seen last season and the club responded by putting the prices up. it was obvious crowds were going to decline.

 

the club is asking for more, without giving anything back. look at our summer signings, a tiny keeper, two loans and a non league player on a 1 year deal to complement all the over 30s in the squad. there is nothing there that makes you think we have any long term plans.

 

the club haven't announced how many season tickets we've sold but i would guess it's way down.

 

 

If you were not satisfied with last season then the sad fact is you never will be. If i was McCall or players reading your posts Steelboy - I would think about putting my head in an oven.

 

Yes there were poor games and we got lucky with more than a few results. But finishing on 70 points was almost miraculous. Most sensible fans realise this, the others well you know...

 

Season ticket prices had to go up. They were and remain some of the most competitive in the league, especially given the squad we have.

 

Ya Bezzer is right. if you stop backing the club now, because of a few poor results the outcome will be a lot more damaging for all of us in the mid to long term.

[steelboy]

we scraped a lot of results last season but the entertainment was terrible. there have been two, possibly three, decent games at fir park in 2014.

 

you have no idea how many season tickets we have sold, it's possible that we have lost money due to people not renewing because of the prices or because of the end product on the park. pay 20 quid to watch a terrible game of football whilst the sub goalkeeper picks up £2500 a week, it's not exactly appealing.

 

i don't think anything will change until we have a new manager in the dugout. mccall had the scope to overhaul the squad last summer and made an arse of it, this summer he has done nothing which will benefit us long term. every player in the squad is here because they were given a deal by stuart mccall yet our squad is extremely unbalanced.

 

publicly blaming a young player playing out of position for the st johnstone goal while staying silent about his mate sicknote simon getting raped in the air sums mccall up.