The Sheriff of Shieldmuir Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The thing that annoys me the most is that we have few young players with games under the belts. For too long we have played experienced players out of position rather than let younger players have some game time in a familiar position. Now the finances are tight, the need for younger players to come through is even greater and we are caught short. Carswell has been given a chance and has done well IMO. Leitch needs more games which I feel he should have had more last season, Erwin has been given a chance because there is no one else to challenge for a place and Kerr has hardly featured in a natural position. I am a fan of Stuart McCall but he has seriously screwed up there and a club of our size needs a good set of young players. On the topic of our run of bad form, I would give him a few more games to turn things around though before pressing the panic button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Its officially a crisis now..our confidence is rock bottom, this is virtually the same team minus hutchie and faddy that took us to 2nd spot last season, so why are we so pish this term. I am a fan of SMC but he seems to be bereft of ideas at the moment,we need results now, no fancy formations etc just a few win uglies to get the confidence up. However with all the upheaval at the club over the summer and our acute lack of cash i fear SMC's time may be up I think it's generally underestimated the amount of freedom that Faddy's presence alone gave the rest of the team at times last season. Like Humphrey before him, teams knew he could hurt them if left to his own devices, even on an off day, so tended to focus on him. We simply don't have anyone at the moment that scares other teams. Ojamaa could certainly fit that bill, but not until he's fully fit and playing like he did during his last spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Jules Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Just imagine if Higginbotham was playing today it could have been a cricket score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Back in the house for quarter past 5 through traffic! Strange selection, even stranger substitutions. Josh Law a professional footballer? Really? Fraser Kerr is wank, but, has shown 'form' this season? That's just for starters... Senior players need to stand up and be counted which they aren't presently & don't look capable of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Just imagine if Higginbotham was playing today it could have been a cricket score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Ainsworth>Higginbotham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Lobey_Dosser Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Higginbotham>>>>Vigurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... fat_tony Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Higginbotham>>>>Vigurs. Depends on the Higginbotham you mean. He certainly didn't show enough when he was with us to have our fans clamouring to bring him back instead of Faddy (wonder goal against Hibs aside). He only really seemed to kick on after joining Partick and having a point to prove. Still, hindsight's great isn't it? I still think Vigurs is a quality player, more so than he's demonstrated so far, but much like Faddy last season, we don't utilise a system where we can play to his strengths. He's definitely a bit of a luxury player, and you can't always get away with using that type of player in the midfield of a 4-4-2. McCall seems to be most guilty of the old managerial crime of picking a system and fitting his players to it, rather than choosing a system to suit the personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Bit of a bizzare comparison to make as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Welldaft Mk1 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I still think Vigurs is a quality player, more so than he's demonstrated so far, but much like Faddy last season, we don't utilise a system where we can play to his strengths. He's definitely a bit of a luxury player, and you can't always get away with using that type of player in the midfield of a 4-4-2. I think the same and I would have to see the 1st goal again, but if he is guilty AGAIN of ambling back and it has cost us yet another goal :dash2: the opening one at that Even I will have had enough. He did it v Stjarnan away and effectively ended our european journey We cannot afford luxury players in a dogfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Casagolda Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Iain Vigurs need a map to track an attacker and a when he is subbed he needs a hug and a dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Optimus Prime Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Carswell has been given a chance and has done well IMO. A poor all round performance especially from midfield, which looks totally unbalanced. Carswell dithered and hesitated at Thistle's 3rd goal, and Vigurs was caught out for their first. McCall really needs to deploy his formation and tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal not the other way around. Vigurs is not suited to a 4-4-2 formation; I'm not convinced of Carswell; Keith Lasley is past it; and I'm not sure what Josh Law brings to the team. Something needs to be done urgently to stop this slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Casagolda Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Iain Vigurs > Josh Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 10 men = 10 + Josh Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 First away game I've been to in a while. Don't know if it's possible to condense thoughts on it into a single post. Team lineup wasn't a million miles away from what most people on here would have picked. Not a massive fan of 442 myself. Personally think that any team playing only two centre midfielders is asking to be overrun. But we weren't being dominated and hit the bar before they scored. The first goal drained what confidence there was out of the team. What sticks in the throat about it (in common with the other Thistle goals) was that they had it handed to them on a plate. Vigurs has no pace. Vigurs knows this, McCall knows this, our opponents know this. To play him in wide midfield, one of two things has to happen. Your full back on that side has to cut out any attacking runs or Vigurs has to compensate for his lack of pace by taking a deeper position when covering. Problem is that if your full back doesn't make forward runs, Vigurs' tendency to cut inside (more so when he's on the right) means you have no width. Second goal, the only Thistle player in the box is unmarked by any of the five Motherwell players in there. Third goal, Carswell and Angol somehow lose out to one Thistle player. Individual errors are killing us. You cannot gift three goals and expect a result. More concerning is the lack of belief in the team. This is a team that went to Celtic Park and got a point. The heads went down faster than the Titanic today. Like I said, individual errors are killing us and the thing is, when that happens, individuals get singled out by the fans. It may not help but it's understandable. Noticed a couple of players, making a point of giving Vigurs encouragement as he went off. At least, it seems to show he's aware he made an error in the first half and was clearly down about it. More suggesting of team spirit than anything else we did on the park. We're in a mess just now. Is McCall the man to get us out of it? I hope so because I can't think of anyone else available who would take the job that I'd have more faith in... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Steve Cowan App Society Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Not nearly good enough 2day,we r in the mire at moment with victories vital.Giving teams far too much space,lacking creativity and gifting goals.. .In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Not nearly good enough 2day,we r in the mire at moment with victories vital.Giving teams far too much space,lacking creativity and gifting goals.. .In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Personally, I'd rather have Nielsen in goals but Twardzik isn't anywhere near being our main problem just now. Doubt he even makes the top five of our problems right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... dosser1886 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Midfield has been our problem for a while they offer very little, if anything, going forwards or defensively. Been on a bit of a downer since the result today, had a few drinks and feeling much better. Suggest we all do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... mfc Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 something has to change and quick the amount of cheap goals were giving away is a joke,to concede 7 goals in 2 games to accies and thistle is nothing short of scandalous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 something has to change and quick the amount of cheap goals were giving away is a joke,to concede 7 goals in 2 games to accies and thistle is nothing short of scandalous. The number of goals is one thing. But if Thistle had scored three like Ainsworth's today, I'd hold my hands up and say "fair enough". The quality of goals conceded is a far greater concern... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Lobey_Dosser Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Bit of a bizzare comparison to make as well. Vigurs was brought in to play on the left after Higginbotham was ditched. Fed up with the argument over Vigurs having excellent technical ability. In his 15 months at the club he has demonstrated that for all the ability he has, he can't produce on a regular basis. In his defence McCall has failed to build a team around the strengths of our playmaker but he hasn't done enough to prove himself and there have been some effortless performances along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Steve Cowan App Society Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 BBC Alba has 1hr of highlights,9.55 2nite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The Sheriff of Shieldmuir Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 A poor all round performance especially from midfield, which looks totally unbalanced. Carswell dithered and hesitated at Thistle's 3rd goal, and Vigurs was caught out for their first. McCall really needs to deploy his formation and tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal not the other way around. Vigurs is not suited to a 4-4-2 formation; I'm not convinced of Carswell; Keith Lasley is past it; and I'm not sure what Josh Law brings to the team. Something needs to be done urgently to stop this slide. Sorry - I meant overall since he broke into the first team. I didn't go today, so can't comment on that particular performance. He was non-existent last week due to the hoofball tactics played bypassing the middle of the park altogether though. What gets me is that the players are all decent enough - they look really unfit, devoid of confidence and can't work together. If there was ever a time that the team needed to be together and led by the manager, it's now. Stuart McCall should shit-can his Scotland duties immediately and concentrate purely on his club role. If not, Alan Burrows should grow a pair and take him to task on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... StipeIsGod Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 What the fuck is a 'high'light? Not seen one of those in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... fat_tony Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Criticising a goalie for not saving penalties is like criticising a player for not being able to run faster than they can. Anything a goalkeeper can get you at a penalty is a bonus, the odds are massively stacked against them, and if a taken penalty is of sufficient quality, no keeper in the world will get near it. It strikes me, that the points we have gained this season, have been the only matches (in the league) in which we've taken the lead. In previous seasons, I've always been quite confident that we could turn things around when we've fallen behind, and in some cases it's tended to kick start us into a higher tempo. Maybe it's down to a sense of belief in the team. This season however, when we concede, the heads seem to go down and that's that. Confidence is fragile, and I suspect we're going to have to start getting on the score sheet first to stand any chance, at least until we get some belief back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Ainsworth>Higginbotham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Higginbotham>>>>Vigurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Higginbotham>>>>Vigurs. Depends on the Higginbotham you mean. He certainly didn't show enough when he was with us to have our fans clamouring to bring him back instead of Faddy (wonder goal against Hibs aside). He only really seemed to kick on after joining Partick and having a point to prove. Still, hindsight's great isn't it? I still think Vigurs is a quality player, more so than he's demonstrated so far, but much like Faddy last season, we don't utilise a system where we can play to his strengths. He's definitely a bit of a luxury player, and you can't always get away with using that type of player in the midfield of a 4-4-2. McCall seems to be most guilty of the old managerial crime of picking a system and fitting his players to it, rather than choosing a system to suit the personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Bit of a bizzare comparison to make as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I still think Vigurs is a quality player, more so than he's demonstrated so far, but much like Faddy last season, we don't utilise a system where we can play to his strengths. He's definitely a bit of a luxury player, and you can't always get away with using that type of player in the midfield of a 4-4-2. I think the same and I would have to see the 1st goal again, but if he is guilty AGAIN of ambling back and it has cost us yet another goal :dash2: the opening one at that Even I will have had enough. He did it v Stjarnan away and effectively ended our european journey We cannot afford luxury players in a dogfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Iain Vigurs need a map to track an attacker and a when he is subbed he needs a hug and a dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Carswell has been given a chance and has done well IMO. A poor all round performance especially from midfield, which looks totally unbalanced. Carswell dithered and hesitated at Thistle's 3rd goal, and Vigurs was caught out for their first. McCall really needs to deploy his formation and tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal not the other way around. Vigurs is not suited to a 4-4-2 formation; I'm not convinced of Carswell; Keith Lasley is past it; and I'm not sure what Josh Law brings to the team. Something needs to be done urgently to stop this slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Iain Vigurs > Josh Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 10 men = 10 + Josh Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 First away game I've been to in a while. Don't know if it's possible to condense thoughts on it into a single post. Team lineup wasn't a million miles away from what most people on here would have picked. Not a massive fan of 442 myself. Personally think that any team playing only two centre midfielders is asking to be overrun. But we weren't being dominated and hit the bar before they scored. The first goal drained what confidence there was out of the team. What sticks in the throat about it (in common with the other Thistle goals) was that they had it handed to them on a plate. Vigurs has no pace. Vigurs knows this, McCall knows this, our opponents know this. To play him in wide midfield, one of two things has to happen. Your full back on that side has to cut out any attacking runs or Vigurs has to compensate for his lack of pace by taking a deeper position when covering. Problem is that if your full back doesn't make forward runs, Vigurs' tendency to cut inside (more so when he's on the right) means you have no width. Second goal, the only Thistle player in the box is unmarked by any of the five Motherwell players in there. Third goal, Carswell and Angol somehow lose out to one Thistle player. Individual errors are killing us. You cannot gift three goals and expect a result. More concerning is the lack of belief in the team. This is a team that went to Celtic Park and got a point. The heads went down faster than the Titanic today. Like I said, individual errors are killing us and the thing is, when that happens, individuals get singled out by the fans. It may not help but it's understandable. Noticed a couple of players, making a point of giving Vigurs encouragement as he went off. At least, it seems to show he's aware he made an error in the first half and was clearly down about it. More suggesting of team spirit than anything else we did on the park. We're in a mess just now. Is McCall the man to get us out of it? I hope so because I can't think of anyone else available who would take the job that I'd have more faith in... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cowan App Society Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Not nearly good enough 2day,we r in the mire at moment with victories vital.Giving teams far too much space,lacking creativity and gifting goals.. .In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Not nearly good enough 2day,we r in the mire at moment with victories vital.Giving teams far too much space,lacking creativity and gifting goals.. .In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Personally, I'd rather have Nielsen in goals but Twardzik isn't anywhere near being our main problem just now. Doubt he even makes the top five of our problems right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Midfield has been our problem for a while they offer very little, if anything, going forwards or defensively. Been on a bit of a downer since the result today, had a few drinks and feeling much better. Suggest we all do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 something has to change and quick the amount of cheap goals were giving away is a joke,to concede 7 goals in 2 games to accies and thistle is nothing short of scandalous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 something has to change and quick the amount of cheap goals were giving away is a joke,to concede 7 goals in 2 games to accies and thistle is nothing short of scandalous. The number of goals is one thing. But if Thistle had scored three like Ainsworth's today, I'd hold my hands up and say "fair enough". The quality of goals conceded is a far greater concern... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Bit of a bizzare comparison to make as well. Vigurs was brought in to play on the left after Higginbotham was ditched. Fed up with the argument over Vigurs having excellent technical ability. In his 15 months at the club he has demonstrated that for all the ability he has, he can't produce on a regular basis. In his defence McCall has failed to build a team around the strengths of our playmaker but he hasn't done enough to prove himself and there have been some effortless performances along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cowan App Society Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 BBC Alba has 1hr of highlights,9.55 2nite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sheriff of Shieldmuir Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 A poor all round performance especially from midfield, which looks totally unbalanced. Carswell dithered and hesitated at Thistle's 3rd goal, and Vigurs was caught out for their first. McCall really needs to deploy his formation and tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal not the other way around. Vigurs is not suited to a 4-4-2 formation; I'm not convinced of Carswell; Keith Lasley is past it; and I'm not sure what Josh Law brings to the team. Something needs to be done urgently to stop this slide. Sorry - I meant overall since he broke into the first team. I didn't go today, so can't comment on that particular performance. He was non-existent last week due to the hoofball tactics played bypassing the middle of the park altogether though. What gets me is that the players are all decent enough - they look really unfit, devoid of confidence and can't work together. If there was ever a time that the team needed to be together and led by the manager, it's now. Stuart McCall should shit-can his Scotland duties immediately and concentrate purely on his club role. If not, Alan Burrows should grow a pair and take him to task on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 What the fuck is a 'high'light? Not seen one of those in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 In my opinion Dan is too wee 4 a keeper & therefore lacks presence,lost 2 similar goals against both Stjarnan&Killie that probably were saveable,he also got nowhere near 7 pens last week Criticising a goalie for not saving penalties is like criticising a player for not being able to run faster than they can. Anything a goalkeeper can get you at a penalty is a bonus, the odds are massively stacked against them, and if a taken penalty is of sufficient quality, no keeper in the world will get near it. It strikes me, that the points we have gained this season, have been the only matches (in the league) in which we've taken the lead. In previous seasons, I've always been quite confident that we could turn things around when we've fallen behind, and in some cases it's tended to kick start us into a higher tempo. Maybe it's down to a sense of belief in the team. This season however, when we concede, the heads seem to go down and that's that. Confidence is fragile, and I suspect we're going to have to start getting on the score sheet first to stand any chance, at least until we get some belief back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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