Do We Need a New Manager?

[Lobey_Dosser]

Assuming we are on a solid enough financial footing after the November announcement, we require a manager that is in tune with the vision of the Board. I imagine that vision will incorporate youth development as well as player recruitment that has scope for generating income.

 

Should there be a change prior to Christmas, I don't think we need to bring in a safe pair of hands like we did with Brown. The quality of league is at such a low that any manager worth their salt will get us out of trouble.

 

I wouldn't be averse to bringing in a young manager from the same school as McNamara and Hartley.

[MelvinBragg]

^ out of every potential manager who has a coaching badge in the UK, theres only one candidate???

 

Come on, you can make a better case for someone than pulling out that kind of outrageous statement

Willingness to come and work on a tiny budget? Local? Know what you're going to get? Someone who knows what he'll be facing given his work as a pundit and SFA delegate.

 

As for any manager worth his salt keeping us up, is that to suggest that McCall isn't such a manager? As things stand, he doesn't look capable. Hope that in the next two or three weeks that it changes for him and he turns it around...

[foghorn]

In my opinion McCall has earned the right to be here at least until the end of the season, to try and get us up the league. But there are a few duckers playing for us right now, and I never believed how much we would miss Stevie Hammell. We have no "out ball" at the moment and too many trying to get rid of the ball.

[one m in motherwell]

Assuming we are on a solid enough financial footing after the November announcement, we require a manager that is in tune with the vision of the Board. I imagine that vision will incorporate youth development as well as player recruitment that has scope for generating income.

 

Should there be a change prior to Christmas, I don't think we need to bring in a safe pair of hands like we did with Brown. The quality of league is at such a low that any manager worth their salt will get us out of trouble.

 

I wouldn't be averse to bringing in a young manager from the same school as McNamara and Hartley.

 

Your first paragraph is probably what all of us on here would assume to be the standard Motherwell manager's job advert, but sadly we've never really had that since Butcher.

 

You're spot on regarding the quality of the league, but I just don't think we'd really be able to attract the type of manager that you mention. If we're talking about the lower leagues, I would imagine Ian Murray would fit the bill, but if we are potentially looking at paying off McCall then there's next to no chance of us paying compensation to another club. As per, we'd be looking at someone who isn't in work at the moment - Steve Lomas was mentioned, which isn't a bad shout.

 

No doubt Owen Coyle will be mentioned too, but what about Craggs?

 

Ultimately, the biggest stumbling block is going to be the complete lack of financial 'wiggle room' that any new manager is likely to get. Yes, McCall has done wonders with a tiny budget, but we're looking at the budget being even less if the attendances continue to fall (and fall further still if we don't make the top six).

 

 

[one m in motherwell]

Just seeing that Lee Clark has been sacked. Fuck it, get him in and bring Randolph back too.

[weeyin]

Be cheaper and easier all round if we just win our next 2 games.

[Desp]

I wouldn't be averse to bringing in a young manager from the same school as McNamara and Hartley.

 

A slippery slope mate if we're going to be appointing managers based on what school they went to...

[Shire Greats]

1413829548[/url]' post='423291']

This Tommy McLean fella that's being eased into McCall's chair. Did a bloody good job didn't he? Won promotion, kept us up (with some good fortune in league reconstruction) won the Cup got us into Europe. Top stuff!

 

But wait.....

 

It kind of went a bit tits up after that didn't it. Utterly miserable season in 91'92 that saw some horrible defeats in local derbies, a very low placing in the league and deflating European exit. And the following season was even worse with us being detatched at the bottom of the table and fans protesting outside the ground.

 

What would have happened if the board hadn't held their nerve and gave McLean their backing?

What would have happened if we hadn't got that break against Falkirk with their daft Cockney goalie losing the plot that helped us get that confidence building result that inspired a fightback?

 

You probably wouldn't have seen one of the finest Motherwell teams of a generation assembled over the next two or three seasons for a start.

 

There's a lesson in there if you choose to look hard enough.

 

We didn't have steelmen online in the Tommy Mac era, but if we had ,he would have come in for as much stick as SMC, in fact a lot more.There were plenty people on his case for a good bit of his spell at FP, personally I think he did a great job

I remember when he was supposedly one game away from the sack , but he managed to turn it round, that was after wining the cup .

 

I am sure when SMC goes , in years to come , people will look back nostalgically on his era too.

 

 

[Onthefringes]

Your first paragraph is probably what all of us on here would assume to be the standard Motherwell manager's job advert, but sadly we've never really had that since Butcher.

 

You're spot on regarding the quality of the league, but I just don't think we'd really be able to attract the type of manager that you mention. If we're talking about the lower leagues, I would imagine Ian Murray would fit the bill, but if we are potentially looking at paying off McCall then there's next to no chance of us paying compensation to another club. As per, we'd be looking at someone who isn't in work at the moment - Steve Lomas was mentioned, which isn't a bad shout.

 

No doubt Owen Coyle will be mentioned too, but what about Craggs?

 

Ultimately, the biggest stumbling block is going to be the complete lack of financial 'wiggle room' that any new manager is likely to get. Yes, McCall has done wonders with a tiny budget, but we're looking at the budget being even less if the attendances continue to fall (and fall further still if we don't make the top six).

I disagree. Jim Gannon brought with him a vision that was matched by our board, hence, he was given everything he requested. Given the relative success we have enjoyed may well have diluted that process since, the essence of the blue print he offered is still at the forefront of the boards thinking from what I've seen or heard - we just haven't matched those ambitions yet, while it seems others around us are.

 

Now, we can wax lyrical on the merits of Gannon's tenure, both those for & the haters for sake of hating - believe there was fault on both sides, from the outside his erratic behaviour left his position untenable, just felt we missed a trick & would be interested to see where that particular plan took us.

 

Whilst Stuart McCall should rightly be heralded for his achievements especially in relation to what we're lead to believe is an ever decreasing budget. The business is about the here and now & I've felt for a long time he had squeezed as much as he could from the squad, evident to those in Iceland with no sign of any recovery since. I do believe that management teams have a shelf life, he had banked enough in the vault to warrant time to turn things around, but, even the staunchest of his supporters will be questioning his latest offerings. Think it's crass to be suggesting replacements when he is still in the job and was recently lead to believe that will remain the case regardless of general opinion. Rest assured, when or if, the time comes to make change Derek Weir will be scouring the leftfield for the appointment & not using the old boys network & Scottish managerial merry-go-round we see elsewhere & truth be told, that's what gives most of us the fear.

[ONeils40yarder]

I hope he will take ginger bottles.

 

 

 

 

How much will he need to be compensated by? Assuming his contract runs out at the end of May, I make that 7 months of pay he will lose out on if he were to be sacked.....I have no idea how much he is paid, but for talkings sake he earns £2000 p/week or £8000 p/month. If he was sacked today, he would have a claim of around about £56,000.

 

Now, I know we are absolutely pratted but that money is going to have to be paid between now and the end of the season anyway, and weighed up against what we'd potentially lose if we were relegated its chicken feed really.

 

Again, though I do realise that we'd need to find additional funds for paying a new manager, but while the likes of Tommy Mclean wouldnt do it for nothing, I dont think he'd be horrendously difficult to deal with. A small salary beefed up by a bonus for keeping us in the league would be my recommendation.

[Ya Bezzer!]

We didn't have steelmen online in the Tommy Mac era, but if we had ,he would have come in for as much stick as SMC, in fact a lot more.There were plenty people on his case for a good bit of his spell at FP, personally I think he did a great job

I remember when he was supposedly one game away from the sack , but he managed to turn it round, that was after wining the cup .

 

I am sure when SMC goes , in years to come , people will look back nostalgically on his era too.

 

Actually managers got a lot more stick before Steelmen Online. Instead of battering out their frustrations on a keyboard fans shouted it down the managers ear or gathered in front of the main stand to sing "get to fuck" after a match.

 

McCall has had nothing like the abuse Alex McLeish got(and he finished 2nd in a much stronger league) or Billy Davies. The response has actually been quite tepid in the 'real world'. I heard an old yin leaving the stadium on Saturday saying "they're no worth booing".

 

As for McLean, the season after the cup win was an absolute shocker, especially our home results (October to May = 15 home matches, 3 wins, 10 defeats, only 1 home win all season after Jan 1st) and fans were quite right to protest.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I think bringing someone in short term ,aka craig broon ( or that type ) but not tommy mclean as I think he s not in touch / up to date

 

on currant players in the leagues etc but I see where your comeing from !!!

 

At least under McLean we'd be a lot better organized. You could more or less guarantee we would have a professional shape.

 

McLean was also a strong believer of building a team on a defence and our defensive displays, especially in the last month of so have been dreadful. He would surely improve us there.

 

It's funny though that you say McLean wouldn't be in touch/up to date, when McCall plays an out of date form of football every week.

 

Only two teams in the SPL played a 4-4-2 last weekend, Aberdeen and Motherwell. Take a look at the results 0-3 and 1-3 defeats against 4-2-3-1 teams.

 

4-2-3-1 is virtually standard now across European football but not at Fir Park.

[weeyin]

McCall tried variants of 4-3-2-1 when he came here and it failed every time - both with Sutton and Higdon as the 1. It lead to many people on hear screaming for him to give up on it because it was so useless.

[steelboy]

in 2011/12 jennings and lasley were more than capable of competing in centre mid as a pair, the move to 4-5-1 looked to me to be a ploy to make nicky law the focal point of the team rather than have him on out the wing. even when we evetually switched back to 4-4-2 law got to play wherever he wanted.

[ONeils40yarder]

I'd be more inclined to play a 4-2-3-1 than a 4-3-2-1.

 

The middle man in the '3', has to play as close to our front-man as possible when attacking but be able to revert back in beside the 2-man central midfield when defending. The two-wide players must be pacy.

 

The fact that Sutton can't play up top on his own shouldn't mean we dont play 1-man up front. If Sutton needs dropped, then drop him.

[MelvinBragg]

McCall tried variants of 4-3-2-1 when he came here and it failed every time - both with Sutton and Higdon as the 1. It lead to many people on hear screaming for him to give up on it because it was so useless.

I tend to disagree. The second half of 2012/13, we essentially played 4231 with the front six looking like

 

Law Lasley

Humphrey Ojaama McFadden

Higdon

 

Anyone who says that Ojaama was playing up front alongside Higdon was not watching those games. Any highlight reel from that period, when you see Ojaama doing his best work, he's picking up the ball about 30-40 yards from goal (remember when McCall signed him, he said he saw him as a provider rather than a goalscorer) . Higdon (and I believe) Sutton can play up front on their own. But you need movement off and around them which we had in that period. Also useful if you have someone with a bit of passing range as one of the defensive two. Mind you, for 45 minutes against Hibs that season we destroyed them without such a player, with a front six of

 

Carswell Hateley

McFadden Ojaama Higginbotham

Higdon

 

It worked for us because it lessened the amount of tracking back our creative players had to do. Which I think is why so many see it as a system that could get the est out of Vigurs. Problem is you need high tempo, high energy players in that three behind your target man. And for all his obvious qualities that clearly isn't Vigurs' strength. I'd be tempted to play him as one of the defensive two, similar to the role that Charlie Adam plays for Stoke (or even Gerrard for Liverpool), deep lying plamaker. He certainly has the range of passing for it. Playing him alongside someone with a bit of energy, could work..

 

Carswell Vigurs

Ainsworth Ojaama _______

Sutton/Erwin

 

It would requre a lot of work on Vigurs' positional discipline but would hopefully lessen the amount of running he would have to do.

 

Our problem is (and it's no secret) wehave no players with the movement or pace to trouble defences right now, or are not getting the ball to them in the right positions. Maybe playing our bes passer of a football in an area where he'd see more of the ball would change that. And might improve our ball retention. Helping our defence.

 

4231 did and could work us. Just needs some creative thinking and hard work on the training ground...

[David]

I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I say that Tommy McLean is an ideal candidate for the job I don't mean as a long-term solution.

 

The fact is, if we continue as we are, McCall won't see out the season. Regardless of his previous success with the club, that doesn't count for much when you're languishing at the bottom of the table. Unless things change quick sharp we'll more than likely be looking for a new manager in the new year in my opinion. McLean would fit the bill for me.

 

As someone mentioned, put Leitch in alongside him and then we can re-evaluate in the summer.

 

For the record, I really hope this whole discussion is forgotten about come the end of the season and that McCall has managed to pull us out of this situation.

[Kmac]

I tend to disagree. The second half of 2012/13, we essentially played 4231 with the front six looking like

 

Law Lasley

Humphrey Ojaama McFadden

Higdon

 

Anyone who says that Ojaama was playing up front alongside Higdon was not watching those games. Any highlight reel from that period, when you see Ojaama doing his best work, he's picking up the ball about 30-40 yards from goal (remember when McCall signed him, he said he saw him as a provider rather than a goalscorer) . Higdon (and I believe) Sutton can play up front on their own. But you need movement off and around them which we had in that period. Also useful if you have someone with a bit of passing range as one of the defensive two. Mind you, for 45 minutes against Hibs that season we destroyed them without such a player, with a front six of

 

Carswell Hateley

McFadden Ojaama Higginbotham

Higdon

 

It worked for us because it lessened the amount of tracking back our creative players had to do. Which I think is why so many see it as a system that could get the est out of Vigurs. Problem is you need high tempo, high energy players in that three behind your target man. And for all his obvious qualities that clearly isn't Vigurs' strength. I'd be tempted to play him as one of the defensive two, similar to the role that Charlie Adam plays for Stoke (or even Gerrard for Liverpool), deep lying plamaker. He certainly has the range of passing for it. Playing him alongside someone with a bit of energy, could work..

 

Carswell Vigurs

Ainsworth Ojaama _______

Sutton/Erwin

 

It would requre a lot of work on Vigurs' positional discipline but would hopefully lessen the amount of running he would have to do.

 

Our problem is (and it's no secret) wehave no players with the movement or pace to trouble defences right now, or are not getting the ball to them in the right positions. Maybe playing our bes passer of a football in an area where he'd see more of the ball would change that. And might improve our ball retention. Helping our defence.

 

4231 did and could work us. Just needs some creative thinking and hard work on the training ground...

 

First of all, I totally agree that we need to switch to 4231.

 

McCall for some unknown reason insists on playing with Vigurs wide left when quite frankly he will never be a left winger - his attributes do not lend themselves whatsoever. We need to become more compact at the back (which I mentioned in the Aberdeen match thread), therefore I would be looking to go for...

 

Ramsden---------McManus-----O'Brien---------Hammel

 

 

----------------------Reid----------Carswell/Lasley----

 

In my opinion (until we get a bit of confidence back in the side), we need to make ourselves compact and difficult to beat/brake-down and I would hope such a formation would allow that.

Secondly however, where I disagree with you slightly) is that I would make our forward play all about breaking at pace...

 

So, for the next few games, I would be looking at

 

 

-----Ainsworth-------Vigurs-----------Ojamaa

 

--------------------------Erwin-----------------

 

Vigurs has very little pace however he he the ability to link the play and with Ainsworth and Ojamaa having the pace to get in behind, that could be vital. For a couple of matches, I would also go with Erwin. I understand that Sutton is out top goalscorer however we need someone that can burst up the park which is why I saw Erwin.

 

Stay compact, but at the end of the day, we are playing in the SPL - no defence is great - which is why we should always look to carry a threat.

[Shire Greats]

1413894843[/url]' post='423322']

Actually managers got a lot more stick before Steelmen Online. Instead of battering out their frustrations on a keyboard fans shouted it down the managers ear or gathered in front of the main stand to sing "get to fuck" after a match.

 

McCall has had nothing like the abuse Alex McLeish got(and he finished 2nd in a much stronger league) or Billy Davies. The response has actually been quite tepid in the 'real world'. I heard an old yin leaving the stadium on Saturday saying "they're no worth booing".

 

As for McLean, the season after the cup win was an absolute shocker, especially our home results (October to May = 15 home matches, 3 wins, 10 defeats, only 1 home win all season after Jan 1st) and fans were quite right to protest.

 

 

I don't think the advent of websites has stopped the vocal abuse, to be honest, plenty out there can still give it out

 

McCleish only had one good season and that was more or less MCCleans team, he then set about bringing in his own players and the rest is history......

I can't defend SMcC indefinitely , November is going to be a telling month

[chummy]

Tommy Mclean?.......fuckin hell

[Jacol]

I keep saying it but the last two good players to come through our youth system - Jamie Murphy and Shaun Hutchinson were Mark McGhee era players.

 

It's just not good enough especially for a club that has to sell to survive.

[Coolhandluc]

I see the average age of our reserve team tonite was 17.4 ! Although lost 2-1 to a more experienced team, it seems they were unlucky to lose and showed up well . Maybe not all doom and gloom

[Frazzie]

All well and good having a promising reserve team but the one name McCall keeps mentioning is shining in a position that the first team has been lacking all season. And if youngsters can't get a chance after 13 games of shite then when can they?

[weeyin]

Usually when the team is playing OK so the crowd and the expectation doesn't get to them.

[StipeIsGod]

Or when you're struggling so badly for bodies that you'd sooner hang one out to dry out of position (Ferguson) than have an older player look uncomfortable (Reid).

Or when you've shuffled as many older options out of position as you can that really, you have to throw one in to make up the numbers.

 

Even as we've done well in the league, youth development and man management of youth has been one of McCall's weakest areas. Even our promising youths have utterly stalled under him.