sbcmfc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is their details on how (as in where the money will come from) these loans will be repaid? It seems that it's effectively a pay day loan, admittedly with friendlier terms and interest rates, but if the club is losing money every year, how can they afford repayments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The club is not in immediate financial danger What I want to know is how are we covering our losses and what plans are there to do so in the future? As I understand it the £600,000 loss was mostly covered by the previous seasons profit that was banked but we lost £200,000 in the last set of figures and we are likely to post losses for last season and this season as well. The losses are surely accumulating and that concerns me a great deal. It doesn't really matter who is running the club the books need to be balanced. We can't keep on posting six figure losses, season after season. We've been told to expect another loss from last term. It will be interesting to see what it is and how much the bonus situation was to blame the previous season. We have the Anier transfer money, but this season when it is printed up into financial figures probably won't make for good reading either. We have a home match against Celtic coming up but right now our attendance figures are down 1,000 per match on last season. The League Cup was a wash out and it doesn't look like we will get a Top 6 finish and it could be a lot worse than just that. It's good to know we aren't in immediate financial danger but I still think things look quite concerning in the short to medium future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Being a selling club, we'll be fine once we sell a couple of the fine young prospects we've been developing and bringing through. Oh... Wait.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSoc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Totally appreciate and understand the frustration over the shortage of information. But we're in a situation where we need an agreement over shares, and agreements rely to a large extent on respecting confidentiality, and rightly so. What we can definitely say, and have to say, has changed is that we need more money than the 800k target, and there is a possibility that we might not even have until the end of November to raise it. We need pledges of money in now and we needed to let people know that time is running out. These facts shaped the wording of the email. There are three options now (1) the Well Society raises enough money to secure the shares; (2) John Boyle's shares are sold to someone else. If someone emerges who is better for the club than the Well Society then great. (3) The shares are not sold and the club faces a cash shortfall in the second half of the season. (It was £350k last season and 150k the season before, and the club has made annual losses in each of the last three seasons). The WS doesn't have enough as it stands to be sure of plugging the gap again. The Well Society was set up by the club to transfer John Boyle's shareholding to people with the best interests of the club at heart, to provide the club with financial security, and also to give him an exit route. We are working within those parameters. Clearly some Motherwell fans would rather own shares than join the Well Society, but we don't have many shares to sell. If a consortium of Motherwell fans wants to buy JB's shares and can provide the club with more security then great but the club didn't set up that route and no consortium has emerged naturally. About 1,300 Motherwell fans have paid a lot of money to join the WS and they did so to give the club financial stability and keep it in the hands of Motherwell fans. That's what we are trying to do. How does the club pay back the money if the Well Society gets enough loans to secure the shares? There are options for the WS to help the club. One is for the WS to sell part of its shareholding - we could possibly raise £400k by selling shares in batches to Motherwell fans who want to own shares rather than join the WS. Also, the WS would also continue to recruit members, collect renewal fees and raise funds in other ways. Our market research showed that there were a lot of fans who would join the WS who hadn't done so yet, for several reasons. One being that they weren't sure it would succeed. If it does we are hoping for an increase in membership. Last year WS members paid £40k in renewal fees, annual income that can help pay off loans. But, yes, the club has spent more money than it has earned in most of the recent seasons so to an extent it will probably need to correct the situation over future seasons. It definitely needs to start spending no more than it earns like any other sustainable business. But there is also the prospect of income increasing when the likes of Rangers and Hearts get promoted, and the prospect of league sponsorship and TV revenue increasing with it. Also, we would be very hopeful that the club would not need to take up the bulk of £1million in loans before being able to restructure its finances at the end of the season. But we are trying to ensure there is no shortfall. How much money do we need to raise? We have raised about £520k or more (don't have an up-to-date figure) but some of that was already given to the club. We have targeted raising another £1million in loans, although that is a round figure based on meeting the absolute worst-case scenario and having a reserve left over, and we would make an offer if we fell a bit short. But we clearly don't want to take over the club and be unable to meet the looming shortfall. That would be a disaster for everyone. Last night's meeting was encouraging and we have a number of pledges of money so far. There's a crucial meeting later and we will update after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Where does the money go if the shares are sold to someone other than the society? Boyle or the community trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The club also has a good number of unissued shares. Could these not be sold off to fans who want their own stake in MFC? An individual supporter could invest anything from £10 to several thousand by this means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Being a selling club, we'll be fine once we sell a couple of the fine young prospects we've been developing and bringing through. Oh... Wait.... I know your being facetious, but our business model changed some time back when we started offering 2 year contracts due to financial restrictions. We don't have the money to risk tying up half a dozen youngsters on long term deals in the hope that one of them makes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The club also has a good number of unissued shares. Could these not be sold off to fans who want their own stake in MFC? An individual supporter could invest anything from £10 to several thousand by this means. can shares be issued with a time bar on re-sale? or any other control option? or even only offered to bona-fide fans ( how to prove? society? ST's? , the infamous MFC database?) 50 fans £2000 each, £100k 200 fans £1000 each,200k 100 fans £600 each,60k 200 fans £250 each,50k 600 fans £150 each,90k fairly conservative estimates and gives a fair chunk and all in fan ownership......with little expectation of financial returns that would cripple club/society for years 1st priority is to get away from the time bomb budgeting requiring top six and cup runs and player sales Rangers fiasco could have killed off the club, to then procede,season after season, with annual losses due to successful on field performances is criminal. to not take any of the unexpected CASH bonus from success and use it towards future security funds sickens me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Short-termism is the curse of the professional game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenmfc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know your being facetious, but our business model changed some time back when we started offering 2 year contracts due to financial restrictions. We don't have the money to risk tying up half a dozen youngsters on long term deals in the hope that one of them makes it. Debatable... the money paid to guys who were clearly not good enough over the last few years could have been spent on a couple of youngsters - guys like McHugh, Daley, Josh Law & Steve Jones. The business model hasn't changed, we just have a manager who has absolutely no interest in buying into it and far too much short-termism on the go throughout the whole club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Debatable... the money paid to guys who were clearly not good enough over the last few years could have been spent on a couple of youngsters - guys like McHugh, Daley, Josh Law & Steve Jones. The business model hasn't changed, we just have a manager who has absolutely no interest in buying into it and far too much short-termism on the go throughout the whole club. Of course, in a prefect world, every decision made and every penny spent would be a sound investment. But I disagree about the business model not changing. We went from a club who signed players on 3 year contracts and payed transfer fees, to a club who never pays a transfer fee and only offers 2 year contracts. That pre-dated McCall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Given that the Well Society have had the goalposts moved for both amount of capital and timescale of delivery, is there an acceptable offer on the table just now for takeover and/or 3rd party investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know your being facetious, but our business model changed some time back when we started offering 2 year contracts due to financial restrictions. We don't have the money to risk tying up half a dozen youngsters on long term deals in the hope that one of them makes it. I'm not really sure I agree with this. I'm not privy to what players get paid at Motherwell but I've long suspected established Motherwell players get paid quite well as far as provincial professionals go. I suspect tying up a half a dozen youngster wouldn't be much more expensive than securing, say, Paul Lawson on a 2 year deal. If we pay him a £1,000 a month plus bonuses, which I think is a conservative estimate, surely we could sign up our four best 18 year olds for the same cash? Personally I think we should be signing up the best players from every youth team season and giving them a chance at pro level. We need a sort of 'youth production' mentality with the set up geared in that way rather than randomly plucking the odd one out here and there when it's convenient for the manager. Youth team player development should be part of the first team managers remit. I remember about 3 or 4 years ago we had a very good U20's team that did very well and at the end of the season, virtually the entire team was released. That was a colossal waste of money, talent and potential and it remains so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 We don't have the money to risk tying up half a dozen youngsters on long term deals in the hope that one of them makes it. Why even bother with a youth set up when you are never going to make a return on your investment? With that kind of attitude we would be better off just employing 'bargain bin' 30 something footballers and leave the youth market to more forward thinking clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Why even bother with a youth set up when you are never going to make a return on your investment? With that kind of attitude we would be better off just employing 'bargain bin' 30 something footballers and leave the youth market to more forward thinking clubs. Because you get good players cheap, presumably and hope someone will stump up a hundred grand here or there from time to time. I'm not saying it's a great policy, but the business people on the board obviously decided that we are in risk-averse mode these days, rather than in speculation. You can always point to an Accies and say, well if they can do it so can we, but they did it by keeping costs low and playing the lower division for years. In our league Dundee Utd needed a benefactor to take over their multi-million pound debt, so it doesn't seem to be generating them huge profits either compared to their investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 can shares be issued with a time bar on re-sale? or any other control option? I'm not sure Iain. Certainly no shares can change hands without the authority of the Directors. In theory they could veto any transaction if they deemed it to be not in the best interests of the club. Anybody can buy shares in MFC - they only have to contact the club. They cost about £10 each the last time I heard and you can buy as few or as many you want - 5, 10, 15, 20 or whatever. There are 2 ways to do it. Firstly arrange to buy issued shares privately from an existing shareholder. In this way the club's owner's shareholding could presumably be reduced if they agreed of course. That wouldn't really benefit the club unless the majority shareholder wanted out. Secondly there are a good number of unissued shares i.e. not currently held by anyone and any sale proceeds would go directly to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm not saying it's a great policy, but the business people on the board obviously decided that we are in risk-averse mode these days, rather than in speculation. Is there a rule that requires Scottish pro teams to have a youth set up? As it stands, our current youth policy is costing us money that we don’t have. We should operate a bargain bin 30 and over player only policy as we clearly have no intention of taking a punt on promising youngsters. If we can’t show clear evidence that our youth policy is earning us much needed cold hard cash, we should scrap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSoc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Latest Well Society statement We have had two positive meetings in the last 24 hours which have given us encouragement that we can find a community-based solution to the ownership issue facing Motherwell FC. A number of Motherwell fans have pledged money for a joint loan to the club – before, during and after a meeting on Thursday night. We are extremely grateful for their help. Today a Well Society representative held further talks with a friend of the organisation with whom we have been in discussions for almost six months. These talks are bound by a signed confidentiality agreement but we can say that today’s discussion gave us further grounds for optimism. Again we are extremely grateful for this ongoing help. We cannot give out any more details at this stage and we are going to spend a couple of days ironing out the mechanics of some issues and in further talks. To clarify reports surrounding the email that was sent to some Well Society members and other Motherwell fans – this was written by the Well Society and not the club. The club is not in any immediate financial danger. What we are trying to do is to ensure that this remains the case and that the club is in the hands of Motherwell fans. Any Well Society offer for the majority shareholding of former Motherwell chairman John Boyle will only be made if it provides long-term financial stability for the club. We hope to provide a further update in the coming days but there will be no further comment for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The problem with the youth setup is that there is this mentality if you have not made it by a certain age you never will added to the fact our scouting network seems to be naw that great, or at least our sales pitch anyway. Motherwell are fighting with Hamilton, Celtic, Rangers, Patrick, Livingston, Falkirk, Hearts, Hibs and St Mirren mostly. Take out the Old Firm but the rest, we should be able to sell and gain a decent amount of players. We don't, as Livingston and Hamilton especially have managed to produce (find?) more quality, or at least coach them to a higher level than we managed, while we've managed to make more money in the foreign market because of our level. Not to mention the likes of United coming to our back yard and taking players before we make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 this is still unclear for me, not that it matters as the minimum was too rich for me, but as someone who has preached the society as a positive vehicle to support the club, it seems to have an identity issue over what is society business and who is calling the shots: so this plan is all the societys doing? the club are denying any involvement or status change, referring it all as society work but fans are loaning money to the club? and the clubs assets are the security and one party is paying a return? but for that loan you get society membership benefits as per, amber or 1886 dependant on what line fo the email you read? where is the society rep's position on the club board, when fanciful targets are being used to predict income? why are the clubs board not structuring the budgets on income and current security, instead of running back and loading the problem onto the society with increased targets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 http://www.redbubble...?p=sticker#zoom[\img] On my phone and about to rush to work so most likely just fucked that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Anyone else see the nonsense being spouted on Pie & Bovril, saying it's a Chilean Consortium looking to buy the club to use as a showcase club for South American players to move onto the EPL. That sounds interesting if true however unlikely!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Anyone else see the nonsense being spouted on Pie & Bovril, saying it's a Chilean Consortium looking to buy the club to use as a showcase club for South American players to move onto the EPL. That sounds interesting if true however unlikely!!! I'd imagine work permits would render that pretty useless, would be a good laugh though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Chilean consortium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Chilean consortium? It’s certainly chilly enough in Motherwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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