Ya Bezzer! Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Butcher's record was pretty poor with us, and then he walked away while still under contract after spinning porkies about mid-season holidays in Australia. More worrying, he took over a Hibs side in a better (although still poor) situation and conspired to get them relegated. He was the right man at the right time for his original stint. Not this time I fear. No thanks. Butcher built the success that every other Motherwell manager since has benefited from. For me he's the next best manager we've had after Tommy McLean. He finished bottom with the club in administration and a team full of teenagers and a team budget of fuck all. Well so would 95% of all other managers. But would 95% of managers then built a team that then did well in cups, got a couple of Top 6 positions and was never in relegation danger again? Even in the poor season where there were mitigating circumstances he still managed some great results during that time v Hearts, Livingston, Rangers and Celtic that still stand out in the minds of fans that have seen hundreds of matches. Butcher was probably the first manager to get us competing year after year for a Top Six place. It was him that turned us from being a struggling team that occasionally had a decent season to being a constantly good team. Like I said, everything since then has been built on the base Butcher left. He also got us to a League Cup Final, a Scottish Cup Semi Final where we were the better team against Rangers and should have won (and if we had, we'd almost certainly won the cup) and another semi final that we lost after a bad individual mistake in the dying minutes. Describing that as poor, along with the league finishes from the base that Butcher started from is ridiculous. Personally I'd rather have someone new in but if Butcher comes in then I won't be too unhappy. Hibs? That relegation was coming for years. How many managers have gone there and failed? Hibs were a club in terminal decline long before Butcher ever cast his shadow over the place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 The fact still remains that Terry Butcher has took over SPFL teams midway through the season twice and relegated them twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Butcher was the ideal man for us in the situation we found ourselves in at the time. With a team full of teenagers, we needed someone who was able to fire the side up when it mattered, and we were fortunate enough to have the likes of Faddy and Pearson coming through at that time. He never struck me as a manager who had a great deal of tactical nous but he was able to get us playing fairly coherently (and with a bit of bite). He may well suit what we need again just now, but I would far rather see someone in who could reshape our ethos a bit into something more forward thinking - that extends far further than just the manager, however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Andy Devlin running with the Van Der Gaag story. Big part of me would like to see him get it but given our current precarious position, it's a helluva risk to employ anyone that doesn't have a sound grip of the current Scottish game. Not that Butcher would necessarily be safer hands mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sound grip of the Scottish game? Why does that matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Van Der Gaag and Rob Maaskant who i'm not sure about his managerial credentials were both interviewed on Friday and apparently were very impressive in what they said to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Sound grip of the Scottish game? Why does that matter? Because we're in a relegation fight and the new manager has to hit the ground running. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 How will that have anything to do with it? Go ask ICT, Dundee and Hibs how getting a guy who knew the Scottish game allowed the m to pull away. I want the best manager available and if he couldn't point out where Dingwall is the n so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 We need wholesale changes on the playing side of things and for me Butcher is close to McCall in attitude even if he is a bit more astute than him tactically. I'm hoping for one of the Dutch to shake a few players out their comfort zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I'd personally rather have something closer to a newcomer. Someone who 'knows the Scottish game' is all well and good, but chances are, if it's an SPFL career guy, their style will be equally well known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 So Butcher is tactically astute now is he? The bold steelboy has officially jumped the shark. More so than McCall in that he has tactics. His teams generally play with a narrow back four and get the ball and midfield runners into the final third as quickly as possible. It's not the most attractive style but when you saw his Motherwell and ICT teams you could tell that the players were playing to a specific plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 How will that have anything to do with it? Go ask ICT, Dundee and Hibs how getting a guy who knew the Scottish game allowed the m to pull away. Exactly why Butcher wouldn't get me vote. On the other hand, Craig Brown came in and turned us around when we were in disarray. I'm all for getting the best candidate but all things being equal, a foreign candidate would be a greater risk as it naturally takes longer to settle in and embed their ethos with a squad that has little scope for change before the summer. Id take Van Der Gaag over the others rumoured to be on the shortlist but I'm disappointed by the lack of quality domestic candidates. Lot of the water to go under the bridge yet though. At this point last time round, Sbragia seemed a certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faddythedaddy Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 No butcher please. Might kick a few arses and get them playing for a few weeks but long term a massive step backwards. Van der gaags pedigree looks decent. Plus I called my third rabbit Mitch after he of fine free kicks. Mitch the lappin in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhandluc Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Did someone say David Weir was one of the six or was it referring to Derek Weir of the board ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 It was Derek Weir mate I really hope Van der Gaag or Maaskant have interviewed well and have good ideas for youth and taking the team forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wasn't so long ago that all we had to argue/debate about was whether we could be doing with a better right back than Tom Hateley! Seems like an eternity ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Bob Maskannt will do for me. We need a totally whole new outlook and way of playing and get new players in and the crap players out. Training needs changed. At the moment we're crap.Stale.Unfit and lacking belief.Complete overhaul required and for Kenny Black to say in the press today that the new manager has a lot of good quality to work with just shows how little he knows about football. We cant pass a ball 5 yards. Easily beaten week in week out. We also need to find funds from somewhere to get shot of Black and Marshall and get new coaching staff in as well. <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacol Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wasn't so long ago that all we had to argue/debate about was whether we could be doing with a better right back than Tom Hateley! Seems like an eternity ago. Watching the first 10 mins yesterday with Kerr at right back I finally reached the decision Hateley wasn't too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Tom Hateley was literally Hitler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Butcher back = backward step + lack of board vision + me no going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Yep maaskant or van Der gaag will do me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 were entering a new era for the club and id hate if we started that off with the likes of shiels or stark in charge.van der gaag would be my choice he's managed and done not too bad at a decent level and would add some excitement amongst the fans which is something that is badly missing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Bob Maskannt will do for me. We need a totally whole new outlook and way of playing and get new players in and the crap players out. Training needs changed. At the moment we're crap.Stale.Unfit and lacking belief.Complete overhaul required and for Kenny Black to say in the press today that the new manager has a lot of good quality to work with just shows how little he knows about football. We cant pass a ball 5 yards. Easily beaten week in week out. We also need to find funds from somewhere to get shot of Black and Marshall and get new coaching staff in as well. What are you rambling about now?! Do you expect him to say "new gaffers got his work cut out, these boys are shite.vigours CRAP! Ramsden and kerr CRAP! keeper is a midget and ojamma lately has been CRAP!" Use your noodle man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 What are you rambling about now?! Do you expect him to say "new gaffers got his work cut out, these boys are shite.vigours CRAP! Ramsden and kerr CRAP! keeper is a midget and ojamma lately has been CRAP!" Use your noodle man. That's the kind of thing Butcher said when he took over at Hibs - another reason he isn't the man for a team in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 for Kenny Black to say in the press today that the new manager has a lot of good quality to work with just shows how little he knows about football. If you are so convinced the players are shit then why are you slating Black? He didn't sign them, he only coaches them. You can't polish a shit. Don't let the fact it's the same squad that finished 2nd last year cloud your judgement either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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