Pitch Refurbishment: An Idea

[Well_Jaggy]

It would also take a bit of time to organise. I don't think the project could be set up and running with all workers / machinary / parts and whatever else put in place in such a small timescale.

[El Grew]

Whilst I appreciate the sentiments behind your suggestions Kmcalpin I really think that to ask supporters to put their hands in their pockets again given the current climate, tcket pricing fiasco and bearing in mind how the chairman has treated them in the past, is simply not on.

 

Anyway I'm not persuaded that the pitch problems are all USH related. I think the standard of groundskeeping leaves a lot to be desired. Witness the different colours of sand used on the pitch - it looks as though they used anything they had lying around.

 

Like thousands of others, I paid for my season ticket in advance and by taking our money and that of everyone who pays at the gate, they enter into a binding contract with us to put on football matches in the SPL and to ensure that in doing so they comply with the rules of the SPL and ant other legislation that is applicable. That contract has been broken. Who says so? The SPL! Hence the suspended fine in relation to the state of the pitch.

 

Its all to do with the club being run by a chairman who is so potless that the club can't even manage to have pitch fit for purpose. I really fear for the club if we don't get a move away from FP because between the pitch and the work required to the Phil O'Donnell Stand its fast becoming a millstone round the club's neck.

[tree]

Whilst I appreciate the sentiments behind your suggestions Kmcalpin I really think that to ask supporters to put their hands in their pockets again given the current climate, tcket pricing fiasco and bearing in mind how the chairman has treated them in the past, is simply not on.

 

Anyway I'm not persuaded that the pitch problems are all USH related. I think the standard of groundskeeping leaves a lot to be desired. Witness the different colours of sand used on the pitch - it looks as though they used anything they had lying around.

 

Like thousands of others, I paid for my season ticket in advance and by taking our money and that of everyone who pays at the gate, they enter into a binding contract with us to put on football matches in the SPL and to ensure that in doing so they comply with the rules of the SPL and ant other legislation that is applicable. That contract has been broken. Who says so? The SPL! Hence the suspended fine in relation to the state of the pitch.

 

Its all to do with the club being run by a chairman who is so potless that the club can't even manage to have pitch fit for purpose. I really fear for the club if we don't get a move away from FP because between the pitch and the work required to the Phil O'Donnell Stand its fast becoming a millstone round the club's neck.

 

 

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Boyle can't fullfill promises made then perhaps it's time to open the ownership of the club up to a wider group of investors. I will always be thankful to Boyle for taking the debt on that he did but he can't continue to bury his head in our pitch.

[fatcalf]

I fear he won't be moving anytime soon, it will take years for the value of Fir Park to rise back to it's previous level. Until then I don't see Boyle, or the club, going anywhere.

[tree]

You're probably right fatcalf but what the club needs is a cash injection. The idea of sponsoring a yard of the pitch is certainly worth looking at but I would like to see Boyle offer the supporters a stake in the club. A grand a share (top of my head). Those that buy get discounted season tickets for a set number of years and an elected body gives the fans some control over club decisions. The biggest legacy Boyle could leave MFC would be a partnership between the fans and any future owner/s.

[Kmcalpin]

Whilst I appreciate the sentiments behind your suggestions Kmcalpin I really think that to ask supporters to put their hands in their pockets again given the current climate, tcket pricing fiasco and bearing in mind how the chairman has treated them in the past, is simply not on.

 

Anyway I'm not persuaded that the pitch problems are all USH related.

 

I'm a wee bit surprised by some posters' reaction to my idea. I quite appreciate that not everyone would want to contribute or indeed could afford to contribute and I have no problem with that whatsoever. Thats life. However providing fans were approached in the right way i.e. "Here is the scheme do you want to contribute ...No? ok thanks anyway" I don't understand how anyone could take offence. I could quite understand a reaction if fans were hassled or made to feel inferior about not not giving but there's no suggestion that would ever happen. I have the impression, maybe wrongly, that some posters would take offence even if asked politely or would even take offence if someone else wanted to contribute. My message is chill out. If you want to contribute then fine but if not thats ok. Folk should have a free choice on both sides. The club has every right to ask, and we, the fans, have every right to say no or conversely yes.

 

FWIW I also agree that that our pitch problems are not all USH related. Once again on Sunday the wing under the POD Stand was sodden. Perhaps its no coincidence that its also the lowest part of the ground. There are still drainage problems.

[Well-Made]

Dave, thought this was a great idea, until I read this article by Pat Nevin in the Times Online this morning.

 

Pat Nevin advises Motherwell to seek new ground over surface problems

Phil Gordon div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited {color:#06c;}Pat Nevin believes that the only solution to the Fir Park pitch problem is for Motherwell to pull the plug on their sodden surface, sell up and build a new ground somewhere else.

 

The former Motherwell player and chief executive was horrified by the state of his old workplace when the sight of its barren turf was screened to millions of viewers around Britain on Sunday in the live television game with Celtic. However, he has sympathy and feels that no amount of money will cure the problem.

 

Nevin revealed yesterday that the Lanarkshire club spent hundreds of thousands of pounds consulting specialised agronomists about the state of the Fir Park pitch when he was chief executive between 1999 and 2002. The end result was: Fir Park 1, Science 0.

 

The soil experts were beaten every time by the unique set of circumstances that conspire against Fir Park, which mean that there is no way the former Scotland winger would be dancing around full backs if he was still plying his trade today.

 

The bottom line is that the water table in that part of Motherwell is above the level of the pitch, so every time it rains, the surface will flood. Because the drainage system is so “ancient”, rainwater will never seep away and, just to add insult to injury, the turf has the wrong type of sand in the worst-affected area, which prevents water being absorbed.

 

Nevin said the specialists believe that Motherwell would need to dig down 40 feet deep to put in new drains, and even then there is no guarantee of success, so moving to a new site would be best.

 

“There is not a specialist a round who can fix this,” a sympathetic Nevin said yesterday. “We spent a lot of time, money and effort when I was at Motherwell. We listened to every agronomist, did everything they asked and got nowhere. To fix the problem, you are probably talking about millions.”

 

Nevin explained that the real problem is Fir Park’s location. “The part of the pitch where it occurs is infamous to anyone who has been at the club. The agronomists also told us that the pitch cannot sustain the right level of root for grass to flourish.

 

“The real problem, though is the drainage. I was told we would have to go down 40 feet to get new drains to cope. But you cannot do anything about the water table. You would have to start with completely new grass, and soilbase, and the club has done all that.”

 

Motherwell were fined £20,000 by the Scottish Premier League recently for the late call-off of their fixture with Heart of Midlothian in December when the undersoil heating failed. They are scrutiny from the SPL because of Fir Park’s dreadful track record last season, when the ground was rented by Gretna and flooding in January and February forced numerous postponements of Motherwell and Gretna home fixtures. “Motherwell have spent huge amounts in recent seasons, relaying the turf and putting in drains,” Nevin said. “They also have to attend to the issue of undersoil heating. I feel really sorry for them and the stick they have been taking is a bit harsh without people knowing the full story. They have brought in specialists and they have all failed Motherwell.”

 

Nevin quit Fir Park in April 2002 when the club went into administration but retains his affection. “I don’t know if the amount of money that was spent on equipment and pitch maintenance in my time as chief executive was still continued after administration,” he said. “The pitch obviously took a real hammering when Gretna were renting the ground last season. Having two teams on it has seriously affected the surface. It never got a rest.

 

“If there was answer, we would have certainly done that in my time at the club. However, if it is cheaper to build a stadium somewhere else, like St Mirren have done, maybe that’s something that has to be considered.”

 

We could end up having to contribute something every season just to keep the pitch okay.

 

Looks like another reason to move. Especially if there is a lot of money spent on it every year as well as the stands.

[fatcalf]

Dave, my opposition to it is not that I think the idea is wrong, the principle of it is fine but Boyle promised this would be done last summer, the responsibility is his. After taking us for granted so often it will be a while before I'd be volunteering to bail him out which is basically how I see your suggestion.

If however he hade made strenuous efforts to engage with our fans the way he has with the Old Firm then the bridges he's burned may have begun to mend and you might get more positive feedback from the wider fan base. It's been one way traffic for too long and he needs to start the healing process, not us.

As for Nevin's article, Andy Russell would argue otherwise. I fancy after Andy we just didn't employ the expertise required or find the necessary investment to keep our pitch one of the best in the business. A gradual decline in standards has brought us to where we are today methinks.

[Well Up For It!]

Hats of to Pat for coming out a explaining once and for all the route of the problem. Although it is not an official explanation to fans, it surely is nice to finally hear the depth of the problem. I'm a bit pissed off that there has never been an official response from the club re the extent of the problem. And I'm sorry Fatcalf, but I see no reason for Nevin to lie - I don't think it's in his character.

 

As for the original idea of the park, etc - I do think it is a possibility. But reading Nevin's comments, I'd much rather see any money ploughed into a new Stadium rather than the bottomless (sand)pit that seems to be our park. A

 

nd while Boyle did promise our fans that it would be sorted in the summer, I'm sure the reapirs, etc that were done weren't done under his direct supervision and maybe the finger has to be pointed at others a bit too.

 

The whole matter that sickens me is that the club tried to cover up the whole matter. All the fans thought that the undersoil heating had been fixed, the grass had been returfed and last seasons problems were history - as did the SFA - and we are dam lucky to escape only with a 20k fine!

 

God must really be a Motherwell fan - first we avoid relegation due to a problem with Falkirks grounds, and now this - which is a slap on the wrist compared to what it could/maybe should have been.

[Steve Diggle]

I don't think Nevin's lying - however I think what Matt's saying is that in Andy Russell's day - although the pitch got heavy at times / for spells - it was way way better than what we have now - and barring extreme conditions it was almost always playable and always covered in grass. (and there would NEVER be a training session on it).

 

There have been some reall disasters with the park in recent years - including the undiluted fertilizer incident that would have the wee man spinning - God rest his soul.

[Steve Diggle]

fatcalf also went on about bridges.

 

Without going round in circles about the OF fans in the Cooper debate again. It needs to be noticed that the whole scenario has changed over recent months - in that basically we can't pay the swines to come in the numbers we want even if we grovel and we've had a change at general Manager level.

 

The Celtic game on Sunday was an opportunity to build bridges - even if it was to say we're considering changing our approach next season.

 

Wrt the pitch - I'd personally consider contributing to a pitch improvement - over and above what JB had promised - on that I think he still needs to deliver. And like many on here probably - I'd even come doon on my days off and help the jailbirds if it was required.

 

Bottom line here is - bold statements were made. We held on to managers and players and we were gonna have a bash at Europe / requalifying on "The best surface on the SPL" and season ticket sales were brisk & healthy.

 

The witholding of a 'meaningful' and 'truthful' statement on the pitch is something that I've lost a lot of faith in my club on.

[Well Up For It!]

fatcalf also went on about bridges.

 

Without going round in circles about the OF fans in the Cooper debate again. It needs to be noticed that the whole scenario has changed over recent months - in that basically we can't pay the swines to come in the numbers we want even if we grovel and we've had a change at general Manager level.

 

The Celtic game on Sunday was an opportunity to build bridges - even if it was to say we're considering changing our approach next season.

 

Wrt the pitch - I'd personally consider contributing to a pitch improvement - over and above what JB had promised - on that I think he still needs to deliver. And like many on here probably - I'd even come doon on my days off and help the jailbirds if it was required.

 

Bottom line here is - bold statements were made. We held on to managers and players and we were gonna have a bash at Europe / requalifying on "The best surface on the SPL" and season ticket sales were brisk & healthy.

 

The witholding of a 'meaningful' and 'truthful' statement on the pitch is something that I've lost a lot of faith in my club on.

 

Point taken, and I wholeheartly agree. Apologies, never realised what he meant with the Andy Russell statement.

[Well Up For It!]

Just saw this...

 

Daily Rancid

 

Motherwell warned to fix Fir Park pitch or face SPL ban

Feb 24 2009 By Hugh Keevins

 

 

The SPL plan to send in an independent expert on playing surfaces during the close season.

 

If work to restore the pitch isn't up to SPL standard by then the ruling body will implement the suspended fine of £20,000 hanging over Motherwell's head.

 

And further sanctions could be imposed rather than have what was supposed to be an elite league left open to further criticism.

 

Last night the Lanarkshire club's general manager Lee-Ann Dempster promised the club would pay £250,000 in the summer to avoid a pitch battle with the SPL.

 

She said: "That might not be a lot of money to some people but it's a significant sum for Motherwell.

 

"The undersoil heating system will be upgraded, new drains will be installed and every eventuality will be looked at.

 

"I've given the SPL my personal assurance that the work will be done and last the club for as long as we stay at Fir Park."

 

Television pictures beamed throughout Britain on Sunday when Motherwell played Celtic highlighted the laughable state of a pitch that visiting manager Gordon Strachan said wasn't fit for playing rugby, never mind football.

 

Players Union boss Fraser Wishart, a former Motherwell defender, is anxious to see his old club avoid sanctions.

 

He said: "Taking money from clubs as a punishment ultimately leads to the players and fans suffering.

 

"If there's a health and safety issue relating to the pitch then nobody's ever raised it with my office.

 

"But there's obviously a problem that needs to be addressed and the players won't be enjoying the surface."

 

Last night the SPL's director of operations Iain Blair said: "We've received a written undertaking from Motherwell that they'll rectify the problems with the pitch during the close season.

 

"It's the club's responsibility to make their ground fit for play.

 

Comments were made at the weekend concerning possible health and safety issues relating to the pitch at Motherwell.

 

"But hopefully we won't go into a legal minefield where that's concerned.

 

"Nobody's saying it's an unsafe environment at Fir Park but the pitch doesn't reflect well on the SPL and the criteria we set for high standards.

 

"It's not of an acceptable standard and it's an embarrassment to have matches called off there when they should be able to be played.

 

"They will need to bring their playing surface back to a high standard and we will send in a suitably qualified individual to make sure the work has been carried out to our satisfaction.

 

"At the moment there are no plans to ask Motherwell to play away from their own ground but the SPL can act if we have doubts about any facility."

 

 

 

Anyone heard more on this...? We really need to get our finger out!

[huggins]

It's a load of shite I think.

 

Just shite journolists looking for a shite story

[KirkySuperSub]

"I've given the SPL my personal assurance that the work will be done and last the club for as long as we stay at Fir Park."

 

That is a very bold statement...!

[Well Up For It!]

That is a very bold statement...!

 

Agreed. Or maybe Leeann noes something we don't know...

 

Is Santa bringing the 'Well a new stadium???

[Onthefringes]

Just saw this...

 

Daily Rancid

 

Motherwell warned to fix Fir Park pitch or face SPL ban

Feb 24 2009 By Hugh Keevins

Bearing in mind the heading on the back page differs, where in the article is the quote the club would face any such ban? 2+2=22 in Mr Keevins ideology, great advert for catholic schooling right enough...

[Dodge]

Mair pish from Keevins because his beloved Celtic lost points and he's making pathetic excuses when the truth is they are not good enough. Its only a matter of time before he highlights how many points we've won since the pitch has got worse and claims that we're gaining an unfair advantage because of it.

[Steve Diggle]

It's Keevins with his knitting needles again.

 

It's the story on the pitch that we already know.

Plus the comments from match reports and live TV coverage which we already know

Plus Jim Duffy's comments on Setanta

 

The new bit for me is the Blair SPL and Lee-Ann Dempster comments.

 

But overall nothing new - and if the SPL are sending in 'an expert' during the close season I'm glad.

 

It's also good to see the club responding to 'somebody' on it.

 

It's just a pity that we've let a complete year pass and allowed ourselves to be dragged through the mud (or sand) - and given guys like Hugh Keevins an extremely easy job.

 

We handed it to him on a plate - and there's no way a scrrilous wee rodent like that is gonna miss an opportunity at having a go at Motherwell.

[Well-Made]

Gotta love Buzz.

 

He's in the Express today wondering how Celtic can complain about the pitch. He's adamant if it hadn't been for the pitch, he had the shot covered from Skippy when he scored.

[fatcalf]

Steve got the gist of my post about Nevin's article. I don't doubt he's telling it as he sees it but what I meant was there's far more to it. He was only here for a short time, during Andy's long tenure we had a superb surface so wee Pat's explanation doesn't really hold up over time. Maybe in his short spell here aye that was the case.

[Steve Diggle]

I'll say it again before I start - we brought all this on ourselves - and I hve no sympathy for the senior management team at Fir Park.

 

However the Record Headline and article and the BBC entry in their gossip column are billing this as :- Motherwell could face worse punishment than a £20,000 fine if their pitch isn't brought up to scratch - they could be kicked out of the SPL. (Daily Record).

 

This is complete bollocks!

 

If we fix the undersoil heating and lay a new turf - that's 'technically' us covered in terms of SPL criteria.

 

We should while we're at it have a look at improving the drainage and all the other work that need's done - I know. But contractually. . . .

 

We have unique problems below the playing surface at FP and that makes things slightly tricky.

 

But we can't be held to more stringent criteria than the rest of the SPL clubs all of a sudden can we?

[fatcalf]

I'd be delighted if we were, they've [decision makers 'up by']proved themselves to be untrustworthy so maybe best if the SPL bigwigs keep a closer eye on them.

[Steve Diggle]

I'd be delighted if we were, they've [decision makers 'up by']proved themselves to be untrustworthy so maybe best if the SPL bigwigs keep a closer eye on them.

 

 

That's a ferr point!

[Wellfan1984]

Tbf a little generalisation there. Granted Boyle et co have come out with some great statements and not delivered but at least give Lee-Ann a chance to keep her promises before rounding on her.