Steve Diggle Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Tbf a little generalisation there. Granted Boyle et co have come out with some great statements and not delivered but at least give Lee-Ann a chance to keep her promises before rounding on her. I don't think anyone's rounding on Lee-Ann. Is sh your burd? I'm certainly not - don't think Matt is either. My biggest problem isn't the grand statements or even the failure to deliver (we're well used to that). It's the failure to answer a civil question I'm more concerned about. Now if I wanted to round on any of the current regime including the press guy - it's their failure to answer an honest civil question about the park and the USH both now and even before we were being investigated by the SPL - I think there is a case - but that's not really what we're doing. Granted they possibly couldn't say anything while the investigation was ongoing. But now they seem to be responding mainly to the press prodding on a case by case basis. The folk who support this club are as fanatical as anybody else out there and when we say we're gonna rip up the old pitch, dig down fix the drainage etc. and get ourselves the best pitch in the SPL - You can rest assured folk will pass the ground daily and watch out for the work happening. (as they did during the summer) And this summer none of it did. I read informed comments on the old site in July last year that the work had not been carried out - before the pre-season friendlies. And it's all been found to be correct. I'll give Motherwell FC the benefit of the doubt on this right as I think they are thoroughly embarrassed to the core. I wish Lee-Ann all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I don't think anyone's rounding on Lee-Ann. Is sh your burd? Ah sorry, I thought it was just being dismissed as "been here, (not) done that". And naw, she's no but if you find out any info on her I'll get her added to Football Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ah sorry, I thought it was just being dismissed as "been here, (not) done that". And naw, she's no but if you find out any info on her I'll get her added to Football Manager OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 "It's not of an acceptable standard and it's an embarrassment to have matches called off there when they should be able to be played. We've still only had 1 match called off this season... Incidentally, although not quite as lacking in grass, Pittodrie and Easter Road are in a right state as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We've still only had 1 match called off this season... Incidentally, although not quite as lacking in grass, Pittodrie and Easter Road are in a right state as well. As is the National Stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcmainstand Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 in all seriousness how much and how long would a half decent stadium take to build and how much would it take to finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 in all seriousness how much and how long would a half decent stadium take to build and how much would it take to finance. 18months minimum and at least £4m for suitable calibre of stadium me finks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Roughly £1500 x No. of seats That's eclusive of your feasablity and design / development costs. oh and about 6 / 7 months on a clear site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 As is the National Stadium. Actually I've heard quite a few pitches described as similar to ours these past couple of weeks. Doesn't absolve anyone 'up by' cos they chose not to do anything to rectify things in the summer but it seems to be a general malaise and not only this country either. Just watched Eurogoals and even the commentator there mentioned someone's shitey surface. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Actually I've heard quite a few pitches described as similar to ours these past couple of weeks. Doesn't absolve anyone 'up by' cos they chose not to do anything to rectify things in the summer but it seems to be a general malaise and not only this country either. Just watched Eurogoals and even the commentator there mentioned someone's shitey surface. I'm with you on that fatcalf. It was a harsh winter with the bad rain in December, sub-zero tempretures in Jan and snow in Feb - only natural that a few grounds are going to take a battering. We are getting singled out due to our problems last season and, as you say, our failure to sort it out. That said, with the state Hampden is in - being our National Stadium and all - I think that is shocker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We've had one game called off this season, due to a section of the park being frozen - and that was due to a fault with part of the undersoil heating.... Hamilton had to narrow their pitch due to their undersoil heating failing at part(s) of the pitch.... did I miss the condemnation of them for not having a fully functioning undersoil heating system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orinoco Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 How much is Boyle worth? What promises did he make last season? Why no action on the pitch? Why should the fans put their hands in their own pockets, given that many already do pay over the odds to our club in blind loyality and without any appreciation from the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 A very interesting article by Pat Nevin. First things first, the club should have done more to keep our pitch in decent condition. That said much of the criticism of the club in the media frenzy has been downright unfair. Too many journalists have axes to grind. I've watched the FP pitch for a good number of years, and while I've seen it in some right messes it has got worse in the past few years. I well recall John Chapman (being a farmer knows a thing or two about soils), during his spell in the hotseat, saying to me that USH would be the ruination of the pitch. Its tantamount to firing a clay water pot in a kiln. MFC has expended a lot of time, money and effort over the years to rectify problems and still not cracked the problem. On several occasions the turf has been relaid but on each occasion it hasn't taken properly. In short the solution is not simple, as Pat Nevin rightly points out. I believe that the SPL is to send out an independent expert to check that any remedial work is carried out properly. I also hope they have the good sense to send them out BEFORE it is carried out to advise on the best course of action. That might be more constructive. We've discussed this issue many times before on this board and a few of us have raised the issue of the water table, hydrology and surrounding sewerage. I don't pretend to know the details of our problem but if these are all contributory factors, as Pat Nevin suggests, then there is no straightforward or cheap solution in sight. Does anyone recall the torrential downpour after the Aberdeen game last season and the damage it inflicted? That gives an indication of the drainage/hydrolgical and topographical problems associated with Fir Park. Maybe its time to give the club a wee break here. Many have been critical of the club's silence on the issue and I have some sympathy with that view but bear in mind that we have had to present evidence at Hearings. Also its possible, perhaps even likely that the club and experts simply don't know what the underlying problem is. A new stadium can't come quick enough. The cash to be spent on the pitch could be better put to other uses. PS. I respect your view Matt and fully understand why you hold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Much has been said about the state of the pitch and there have been numerous reasons suggested for it by everyone and their grannie including Pat Nevin. Its clear that the major problem area is from about 20 yards from the halfway line to the goal line at the South Stand end. Personally, I think it began with the installation of USH and was compounded by the building of the South Stand which has undoubtedly caused drainage problems at that end with the obstruction of daylight also being a contributory factor. Like many I've attended FP for yonks, in fact going way back to the middle 1960s but I can honestly say that the pitch was never even close to being in the condition it is now. The only part of the pitch which ever held water, and only if there was torrential rain, was a small area near the corner flag between the South Stand and the POD Stand, but it never caused postponement of games. When games were postponed it was for frozen pitches - but then nobody had USH. As for having to go down 40 feet to resolve the problems, this is quite simply ridiculous and anyone suggesting this kind of thing should start taking water with it. FFS when golf clubs have to lift and replace greens they dont need to go these extremes. St Andrew's is open 365 days/year and has thousands of rounds of golf played, tramped on by thousands of visitors, suffers wind, rain and frost and yet still manages to be kept playable. Having said all of this, I do think we should relocate to a new ground but where and using what for money? Due to the state of the economy FP is perhaps not worth very much. Having said that, it is prime residential land and could be highly desirable to the right people even if they now were to pay much more than its present market value, for future development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 As for having to go down 40 feet to resolve the problems, this is quite simply ridiculous and anyone suggesting this kind of thing should start taking water with it. FFS when golf clubs have to lift and replace greens they dont need to go these extremes. St Andrew's is open 365 days/year and has thousands of rounds of golf played, tramped on by thousands of visitors, suffers wind, rain and frost and yet still manages to be kept playable.I think you'll find links golf courses have near perfect drainage thanks to Mother Nature. It'slight years away from the Lanarkshire clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickoza Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Why don't we all donate a square metre of the grass in our back gardens and save them having to buy any new turf at all, then nip down the local gypo camp and see if they'll put it down for us? Anything that avoids the club actually having to put their hands in their own pockets has to be worth a shout! I would, but there's more grass on Fir Park than there is in my back yard thanks to our dog....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I think you'll find links golf courses have near perfect drainage thanks to Mother Nature. It'slight years away from the Lanarkshire clay. Aye well in that case the Duchess Park, Strathclyde Park and my back garden (in particular order) grass are in better nick that FP!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Its clear that the major problem area is from about 20 yards from the halfway line to the goal line at the South Stand end. Personally, I think it began with the installation of USH and was compounded by the building of the South Stand which has undoubtedly caused drainage problems at that end with the obstruction of daylight also being a contributory factor. Our USH was only installed 2 seasons ago El Grew. Pictures of it's installation have been on the main site and have been on previous threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 aye and they then proceeded to stick holes in it for a laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Our USH was only installed 2 seasons ago El Grew. Pictures of it's installation have been on the main site and have been on previous threads. That was supposed to be to do something with the drainage and install a new system as the last one didn't work properly either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 aye and they then proceeded to stick holes in it for a laugh That brings up a very good point Gaag, what quality control measures (if any?!) do MFC and the contractors have who installed this...I'm guessing not a fuckin' lot...the whole UGH system should have been inspected, checked, record sheets written, dated and signed off, photographs taken etc etc by both parties to ensure that the system was complete and functioning as it should. I'm pretty sure if I was paying £250k, or whatever the cost of it was to install, I'd also be making damn sure that I was covered for any defects or faults that occurred through no fault of ours for at least 5, possibly 10 years...the contract should have been drawn up to ensure that MFC were (excuse the pun) water tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 That was supposed to be to do something with the drainage and install a new system as the last one didn't work properly either. Nah, I'm pretty sure that this is our first USH system - and it caused all the drainage problems last season whan it baked the clay and created a barrier layer. I'm sure we had to install it when it became a 'carved in stone' SPL criteria. Before that our only pitch protection was the hot air bubble (which has been resurected this season - after it blew away a couple of seasons back). Someone else could maybe clartify that though. Does anyone have the link to those photographs of the system going in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 We can't very well go back to the installers and ask for compensation when we sanctioned another company to drill holes in the pipes can we? Does no-one listen to the real explanation? Or is it just that blind loyalty thing refusing to accept the decision makers could be so underhand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 We can't very well go back to the installers and ask for compensation when we sanctioned another company to drill holes in the pipes can we? Does no-one listen to the real explanation? Or is it just that blind loyalty thing refusing to accept the decision makers could be so underhand? Well I'm fuckin' sorry I've no' being keeping 100% up to date with the goings on of the Fir Park pitch over the last few years...!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well I'm fuckin' sorry I've no' being keeping 100% up to date with the goings on of the Fir Park pitch over the last few years...!!!!!!! If you maybe see the phots KSS you'll see that there's no way anybody was gonna spike the turf and not ruin the system. The phots show loads and loads of narrow guage flexible pipes. running across the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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