Big Stall Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 A bit brutal to watch but the win is the most important thing and we'll gladly take it. Obviously we got the breaks yesterday with the card and on the line decision but we really are due something. Even one game in we can see the new managers changes in philosophy. A much more possesion based game and passing the ball out from the back, not pretty yesterday but hopefully that will come as the players get use to it. Nice to see a different approach as well. Other positives for me was giving youth a chance (ferguson, erwin and thomas) all getting game time, and playing Ojamaa and Ainsworth at the same time. Unfortunatly neither were at their best and Lionel is far more comfortable on the right. A good start for the new man and a much needed win. Lets see if we can follow it up with 3points next week..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 The holier than thou, told you so brigade are out in full force with the Sutton scenario are they not...... I genuinely don't understand what they think this achieves. I'm not Suttons biggest fan but I'm delighted if he scores winners in games as I'm sure every single Motherwell fan is and would be...... He hasn't offered enough this season without a doubt but if he keeps scoring then he will do, simples. This forum is for debate and discussion on our club but the petty point scoring is ridiculous. Well you started it! We are not where we are in the league solely because of John Sutton so why specifically single him out or any one player come to that. We win as a team and lose as a team. It's know as collective responsibility. Our defenders are bad as witnessed by our goals against column and the type of goals we have lost. Our midfielders are bad as witness the lack of protection afforded to the aforementioned defenders and their lack of any creativity. Hey but never mind forget all that and let's blame one of the forwards. John Sutton is what he is and will not become more effective until we start creating penalty box chances for him and not playing him as a target man a la 1970s football. Oh and out of curiosity, just who would you replace him with? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I don't think anyone has singled Sutton out as our only problem Grew....along with probably another 5 or 6 others he's one of a group of players who I would get rid of at the 1st available opportunity and allow the manager the task of replacing him, granted when he's scoring he is doing his job for us, but when isn't he offers absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Think the manager deserves credit for the half time subs. Ferguson was having a bad game and O'Brien was going to get sent off FWIW, although he admitted that was a factor, IB said O'Brien was subbed because he'd taken a blow to the face and the doctor's advice was to make the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Anyone else see the Midden fan at the bottom of the stand on the right of the Well fans throwing a paper cup at Las (and missing)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Anyone else see the Midden fan at the bottom of the stand on the right of the Well fans throwing a paper cup at Las (and missing)? Yeah I saw it, I think it was Ojamaa he threw it at though. Bit of a disgrace that despite it being right infront of the stewards they did fuck all about it when I saw a couple of our fans getting huckled out for whatever reason. Probably standing and supporting the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I don't think anyone has singled Sutton out as our only problem Grew....along with probably another 5 or 6 others he's one of a group of players who I would get rid of at the 1st available opportunity and allow the manager the task of replacing him, granted when he's scoring he is doing his job for us, but when isn't he offers absolutely nothing. I wouldn't say I have singled Sutton out as being the main factor in our slump this year but I do admit to having been one of the guys suggestiong that he should be dropped in favour of Erwin. However, I would certainly not advocate getting rid of him. We know he can score goals and I am sure he will start to score moere again once we get things sorted. I think it wold be a mistake to punt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cowan App Society Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 You must gave been sitting near me Shire Greats as had guy behind spouting stream of negativity for whole 90 mins... he would have been better saying nothing at all... Maybe one of Mr Angry students from his local yoga class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 We were trying to pass the ball about at the back which is great if you have players who can do it. Too many times our defenders took a bad touch then their second was to control the ball and the third to pass it. It was all too slow and allowed their players to close us down and cut off the options. It wasn't just the defenders, Lasley was also particularly guilty of it. If that's the style he wants it's going to have to do a lot of work on the training ground. Gannon tried a similar style when he came in and teams got wise to it pretty quickly and really pressed us high up the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 It was vital in several respects to get the win yesterday. For one the new manager would want to get off to the best possible start and get his first win as soon as possible. More important than that ofcourse was taking the opportunity to address the current predicament. To have failed to see out a lead in the last 60 seconds of last week and then fail to do the business against the other direct opponent having played against 10 men for so long could have really sown some serious seeds of doubt. But by hook or by crook we got there, have that measure of breathing space once again with optimism for the fixtures ahead. As has been mentioned we looked from the off to play a much more possession based style. I thought we were pretty disciplined in the most part in sticking to it, particularly when you can consider we had a two on the left hand side playing on the opposite side from what they were used to and a laddie still bedding himself into the senior side and for the most part keen to play it safe. I'm sure it'll be particularly satisfying for Baraclough that it paid dividends in the end and we got the goal by playing football, And some lovely football at that, rather than panicking and resorting to some of the awful stuff we witnessed in the first half of the County game. There were other positives such the willingness to tweak personnel to bring a more progressive player on in Erwin as early as half-time and the introduction of Dom Thomas. That said we've so, so much improvement to come. For long spells we looked incapable of creating much at all, even against 10 men. But ofcourse it is very early days. Pleased for the maligned Law and Sutton combining to good effect for the goal. I hope Sutton can go on another of those goalscoring streaks that seem to have epitomised both his spells at the club. Was chuffed for Law too. He's deserved plenty of the criticism that's come his way certainly but I always felt he should have been due a little slack and patience whilst he tried to adapt to the game up here. He was exactly what many of his critics said - a former English non league player who has played the bulk of his career at right back. Not his fault he was suddenly expected to be a right-winger one week, left-winger the next, playing off the striker the next again. Last few games he's hinted that he can make a decent contribution. Early days again but let's see where it goes and if he can develop further over time. Onwards and upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscot Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Lee Erwin looks promising , but he has to stop the diving . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 reid and ainsworth frustrated the life out of me - professional footballers who cant use both feet to pass a ball 10yards is a joke we played a possesion game, but most if not all of reid's passes were to mcmanus - on all but one occasion he cut back on to his right foot, slowing the game down and giving the saints a chance to get back into position - the one time he went outside, he put a decent ball into the box and gave us a chance. ainsworth the exact same.....but i dont know if baraclough looked at ferguson and thought law would offer more protection than lionel due to his lack of tracking back and helping out defensively law is winning me round, i think its time he gets a run at right back sutton - im a fan of his, and i think he gets harshly treated on here however, if he is going to play in the team - we MUST play to his strengths otherwise he offers little. Higdon was the same. get to the byline, fire the ball across the box - he will score! he's proven it time and time again someone mentioned hammell being away, i think as a player he is slowing down - however i dont think his contribution can be under estimated. when he doesnt play, we miss him and his experience badly. we need to find a left footed left back who can replace time longer term - no one currently at the club is the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhandluc Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 This is painful viewing on Alba. Two bad lots as my uncle used to say. Agree that we don't have the players for a slow , possession build up play. Hopefully Bara will use his contacts and get some fresh faces in during transfer window. A wins a win though and the team should get a confidence boost no matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Even after one week In charge, it was obvious he is going to try and play a more patient style, based on possession. There are some in crowd who are going to find that hard going , surprisingly not older guys either, there was a young bloke behind me who was having a breakdown cos the ball wasn't getting to where he thought it should go quickly enough, he was negative too from the get go. Suppose whether people take it will be down to winning games, so from that point of view , it's been successful , so far Oh, wasn't beside Mr Angry yesterday but I could here him encouraging players from a distance I was a few seats away. I found it fairly funny yeaterday compared to my past experience at Killie. It's just mental. Even his mates were calling him out on a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think we almost shot ourselves in the foot by not playing a few long balls yesterday. Sutton would have dominated Goodwin yesterday and easily won the couple we did play. Our passing about at the back was so bad with terrible touches meant that St Mirren players could press and know they were always going to have time to get back. Throw in a few long balls up, either Sutton wins the flick or we use our extra man and win the second ball to get possession high up the park. We were nearly caught several times dicking about at the back. Passes that weren't going anywhere and were only getting us in trouble. Nothing wrong with mixing it up and making St Mirren think a bit. Think the manager deserves credit for the half time subs. Ferguson was having a bad game and O'Brien was going to get sent off plus Kerr and Law are much better players on the ball. I kind of agree. I like the patient build up play if we have the ability to do it. But, There was a time for more direct play yesterday and if we can do that at the right time while keeping possession and knocking it about the majority of the time I would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Good to see Motherwell fans gave Baraclough a good 4 or 5 training sessions and 1 match to try to try and implement his style of football before deciding it's not going to work. Despite the fact our goal yesterday came from a passing move that started from the back, halfway inside our own half. It was probably the best bit of football we've produced so far this season and Baraclough's only been here a week. The goal itself was quite frankly a joy to watch and I for one was hoping that with more time spent with the team on the training ground, along with the return of some of the better passers in the squad like Hammell, Vigurs and Lawson that we might improve at it and be able to enjoy more of the same going forward. But nah fuck it let's just go back to what we do best, aimless high balls pumped towards Sutton. It's worked so well so far this season I can't believe Baraclough has decided to abandon such a strategy already to be honest. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I do think the possession game he wants to implement is the right thing to do and will work for us BUT it's not the only way to play for 90 mins. I was actually very pleased with Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I do think the possession game he wants to implement is the right thing to do and will work for us BUT it's not the only way to play for 90 mins. I was actually very pleased with Saturday. Absolutely, it's important to mix things up. I'm by no means some football purist and have no problems in us going more direct from time to time, especially if it's effective. However on Saturday when down to 10 men St.Mirren were defending quite deep and had two men sitting in front of the back four. Sutton may have had the beating of Goodwin in the air but what are the chances of us getting to a 2nd ball? It's a hit and hope and your playing for scraps which I'm sure we would have been heavily criticized for on here had we done so, especially against 10 men. They would have been quite happy to sit deep and fight for headers and 2nd balls. What they wouldn't want was for us to try and pull them out of position and use the spare man and that's exactly how the goal came about. Don't get me wrong, I was like most getting frustrated at the pace of some of our passing and the lack of a killer ball. However I could see what we were attempting to do and I think playing a patient game and trying to work and opening was far more sensible than shelling high balls forward and hoping for the best. Also as I said earlier, I felt we were missing Hammell & Lawson/Vigurs. Those three are probably among the best passers of the ball we have and they were all in the stand. Several times yesterday we were crying out for a Lawson/Vigurs to hit a few quick switches out wide to try and stretch St.Mirren, instead Carswell and Lasley often slowed the game down and went with the safer sideways pass inside. You just have to look at his 1st half performance against United in the cup where he was dictating the game for us showing a fine range of passing to see that Lawson(if fit) in particular could thrive in such a set up under Baraclough. Anyway, I'm sure everyone has their opinions. I do however believe we took the right approach on Saturday by trying to play patiently rather than panicking as we usual do and start to go longer and longer and it paid off with superbly worked goal. Personally I'd like to see the new manager get more time to try and implement his new style on the team, of course though I'd happily sacrifice it at the expense of getting points on the board which is the most important thing at this particular moment in time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_mfc Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Saturday for me was all about getting 3 points, didn't matter how we did it we just simply had to win, which we did. There were a lot of positives though. The goal was a great move and when watched back was one of the best team goals we've scored in few years. Also I felt there were times where you could see what the manager wants from the team in terms of keeping possession and waiting for the right pass but its early days, however the very early signs look decent. I would also like to mention the celebrations from the players at the goal, they were buzzing, which showed how much this means to them. There's nothing better,as a fan,than seeing players show a bit of passion. Finally just a wee mention to the bois,there songbook was at times hilarious. Well done lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 it's one thing for the manager to want to play the ball out from the back but we'll need the players to do it and to be ready for teams to press us high up the park. Barraclough will need to show more flexibility than Gannon. When we had Hateley and Hammell as full backs they were technically better than most opposition midfielders which gave us a lot of options in possession. We aren't going to be able to knock the ball around unless we have fullbacks who can take the ball under pressure and find a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 it's one thing for the manager to want to play the ball out from the back but we'll need the players to do it and to be ready for teams to press us high up the park. Barraclough will need to show more flexibility than Gannon. When we had Hateley and Hammell as full backs they were technically better than most opposition midfielders which gave us a lot of options in possession. We aren't going to be able to knock the ball around unless we have fullbacks who can take the ball under pressure and find a pass. This is the reason the fans need to be patient, especially at home. The last thing the players need is the fans booing or abusing players when a move breaks down like what normally happpens at fir park. The system is slow and sometimes frustrating but in the long term it will work . Rome wasn't built in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 sutton - im a fan of his, and i think he gets harshly treated on here however, if he is going to play in the team - we MUST play to his strengths otherwise he offers little. Higdon was the same. get to the byline, fire the ball across the box - he will score! he's proven it time and time again Getting to the byline! It frustrates the life out of me when players, wingers even, cross the ball from the 18 - 20 yards out. I'm absolutely certain we could get at least 10 extra goals a season if the manager banned crosses from these areas and made the players take another couple of strides down the park. When you hit a cross as an attacker you need to hit it away from the defenders not straight into them. It's so easy for them to defend when you hit a straight ball into the box. Get to the byline! It's not just a Motherwell thing either, it's across the game. People keep going on about the technical standard being higher than ever but for me the standard of crossing is much, much poorer. The other thing we should do is ban kick outs from the goalkeeper. Everything should get played out from the back. Two simple things that would make us a hell of a lot better than we have been this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 it's one thing for the manager to want to play the ball out from the back but we'll need the players to do it and to be ready for teams to press us high up the park. Barraclough will need to show more flexibility than Gannon. When we had Hateley and Hammell as full backs they were technically better than most opposition midfielders which gave us a lot of options in possession. We aren't going to be able to knock the ball around unless we have fullbacks who can take the ball under pressure and find a pass. Hately didn't play full back under Gannon, he sat in front of the defence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hately didn't play full back under Gannon, he sat in front of the defence Everybody played everywhere under Gannon. He did play in front of the defence and played very well there but he also played at right back under Gannon. In fact I'm pretty sure his debut was at right back after Steven Saunders got injured close to kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Everybody played everywhere under Gannon. He did play in front of the defence and played very well there but he also played at right back under Gannon. In fact I'm pretty sure his debut was at right back after Steven Saunders got injured close to kick off. He did indeed. I remember being fairly confused about who we had at right back as the teams came out. He did play in the middle under Gannon as well though, with the centre halves splitting wide and ruddy playing it to Hateley from the back. It wasn't a total disaster from memory, but it seemed a huge amount of responsibility for someone that young. Played there quite well against Hearts in the run up to the cup final too on the 3-3 game, but I think lasley did all his running.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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