Fairhill Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It was made clear at the outset that Burrows was not getting the Dempsey position as she had overall responsibility. There is also no question that the ownership situation complicated matters, and more complication was added when the manager resigned. Ultimately through all of that the Board is responsible for the overall management and direction of the corporate club. So, if we are to assign blame, most of it surely has to lie there. However, I think most of us have felt the team was punching above its true level for the past few years, probably starting with Craig Brown, and we have made it into Europe one way or the other since then. McCall did a reasonable job with the same crew until this season, and you have to ask what happened. Seems to me the tank has finally started to empty and the energy just isn't there. Players are older, players have left, few exciting players have come in, and here we are getting the right results for the quality on the books. The entire responsibility is due to the model we have had of being a selling club, without due consideration to building a stable to keep that concept going, and that is down to the board, that in itself has not been clear on what its role is. Let's hope the ownership gets sorted out soon and Hutchison instills a real sense of managing all aspects of the business where roles and responsibilities are defined, and results are measured. I don't know what the schedule is for the due diligence that's going on, but I hope the plan moves forward quickly once it is completed. I feel for Flow, and I'm not sure many people would want to be in his shoes with all the abuse he's been getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It was made clear at the outset that Burrows was not getting the Dempsey position as she had overall responsibility. There is also no question that the ownership situation complicated matters, and more complication was added when the manager resigned. Ultimately through all of that the Board is responsible for the overall management and direction of the corporate club. So, if we are to assign blame, most of it surely has to lie there. However, I think most of us have felt the team was punching above its true level for the past few years, probably starting with Craig Brown, and we have made it into Europe one way or the other since then. McCall did a reasonable job with the same crew until this season, and you have to ask what happened. Seems to me the tank has finally started to empty and the energy just isn't there. Players are older, players have left, few exciting players have come in, and here we are getting the right results for the quality on the books. The entire responsibility is due to the model we have had of being a selling club, without due consideration to building a stable to keep that concept going, and that is down to the board, that in itself has not been clear on what its role is. Let's hope the ownership gets sorted out soon and Hutchison instills a real sense of managing all aspects of the business where roles and responsibilities are defined, and results are measured. I don't know what the schedule is for the due diligence that's going on, but I hope the plan moves forward quickly once it is completed. I feel for Flow, and I'm not sure many people would want to be in his shoes with all the abuse he's been getting. Bang on the money with that post I've also heard Derek Weir accept responsibility on past decisions made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I despair. Clarity on his role? As hard as it is, often watching through fingers, it's time many got back to following the team. When did having to know the duties of behind the scenes staff fall into the remit of a rank & file 'supporter'? Hell, the kit fetishist has been notable by his absence or defection to P&B - how many times did he query if the post of media manager was filled? Likely truth of the matter is, for 7 to 8 months now that fella has been firefighting off the park in what, despite the upheaval, will be seen shortly as a massive culture shift. Change is afoot, evolution maybe, time for us to roll with it. Over the top describes your post succinctly, to align his appointment with a failure of the football department is beyond me & many who have supported Flow on this 'ere thread. Mere coincidence... This most successful manager you speak of, whilst he owed us nothing, left us in poor shape. We are where/what we are - what goes up must come down, as long as we don't shit upon those we ran over the top of getting there (second thoughts, the mirth enjoyed at others expense has been a just cause) as we're sure to meet them on way back. We've no divine right to be challenging where we have been, I suspect we will get back though. I don't need to know who signs off cheques or makes tea while we get there. Reading your posts occasionally makes me wonder if you are yoda and the riddler's lovechild, regardless that was right on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 My post was in relation to criticism of Flow being bang out of order. I said it wasn't. I stand by that as I have yet to see any signs of progress or direction under his stewardship and stick by the whole "gig is too big for him" and "we need a commercially minded experienced head" running things. Was highlighting we are in a bad way just now in all departments and dont believe he cant be faultless in it all. And a GM that still does media interviews, etc 8months after being appointed when there is a team in place is bizarre. Get everyone won't agree, but know many do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 What do you know of Mr Burrows job role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Nothing. Thats part of my issue. He's still doing media stuff, that much I know. For me the board have to take a responsibility for off field mess of last few years. Flow has been part of that process for the past 8months, although we don't know at what level. All I was pointing out was that I feel criticism of his role is not bang out or order. Thats all. And one reason is the fact he appears to still be carrying out his previous duties - which he was excellent at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is flow part of the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is flow part of the board? the board are part of 'Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Not a member of the board but as the senior member of the staff he will attend all board meetings and report back and have input. Again, not laying blame directly at him. Were Leanne, Ian Stillie and Pat Nevin all exempt for any criticism when they were the most senior member of staff at the club?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Not a member of the board but as the senior member of the staff he will attend all board meetings and report back and have input. Again, not laying blame directly at him. Were Leanne, Ian Stillie and Pat Nevin all exempt for any criticism when they were the most senior member of staff at the club?? So you're unhappy with his appointment in the first place. Is there any way he could risen to the post from within the club in your eyes or would he have had to leave to then return when he gained necessary management experience elsewhere? Or should he never be considered? Now don't focus on how you perceive how the club has transpired since she left but in Leanne's tenure were you happy in general with what she implemented and how the club progressed in her time? Like her or not I doubt anyone can claim the club changed immeasurably under her stewardship. If your answer is negative you can't deny she was successfully headhunted by a competitor with a larger purse. Lot of issues you cite include Alan has been promoted to GM without an executive function. I'd suggest to you the same was the case when Leanne was appointed. She gained the "Executive" to her title as time progressed and JB's regular involvement diminished. However her CV before coming to Motherwell was hardly dazzling and a lot less impressive than Alan's. Being promoted without voting rights does seem to follow your contention that there was caution from those who appointed him to not make the jump too much but I'm sure as time progresses that may change. Finally onto the fact he still does the interviews. I'm sure you will know the job was advertised in the summer, there was a thread on here about it. Eddie Munster applied (allegedly) however the money on offer didn't make it attractive. Therefore safe to say the club couldn't find someone on their terms. Therefore Alan no doubt does it either because nobody is able or wants to do it. However if you'd rather have him upstairs in the boardroom chewing the fat for an extra 10 minutes with the Thomson's and Petries of this world then I understand your ire. I just don't know what the catalyst for the criticism that you claim he's entitled is born from. Regardless, he was appointed by Weir/McMahon/etc., he has their respect and is well thought of by the hacks and TV personnel. I've yet to see any criticism by anyone who genuinely has any daily dealings with him. All the detractors are those on here with limited knowledge of his role, what's he's had to deal with off the radar, how he's performing and what he has planned. But blame has to be attributed somewhere, so he's now moved into your sights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Does Flow go to the board meetings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 End of thread I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Does Flow go to the board meetings? I would expect like any other business, he has no right to attend as he doesn't hold an executive position, but I'd be very surprised if he wasn't invited to attend every one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Lot of issues you cite include Alan has been promoted to GM without an executive function. I'd suggest to you the same was the case when Leanne was appointed. She gained the "Executive" to her title as time progressed and JB's regular involvement diminished. However her CV before coming to Motherwell was hardly dazzling and a lot less impressive than Alan's. Yeah running a worldwide company with a turnover of millions aint that big a deal. Utter pish. All I done was question the bold statement that criticism of him in any form was not on as mentioned! And as someone who has sat on a board of a charity I can assure that the most senior member of staff was always present and in my all my previous roles in the charity sector (a total of 4 positions) the GM (as they never had a CEO) attended all board meeting. They actually arranged them and set agenda! Football will be different, but not drastically. Anyway, all I done was pass comment on my opinion. I've met Alan in the past and have no issue with him and wished him well in the role, although questioned if it was wisest appointment. Same usual shit here when you go against status quo you get pulled up for daring to have a different opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprawell Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 My post was in relation to criticism of Flow being bang out of order. I said it wasn't. I stand by that as I have yet to see any signs of progress or direction under his stewardship and stick by the whole "gig is too big for him" and "we need a commercially minded experienced head" running things. Was highlighting we are in a bad way just now in all departments and dont believe he cant be faultless in it all. And a GM that still does media interviews, etc 8months after being appointed when there is a team in place is bizarre. Get everyone won't agree, but know many do. +1 for me, spot on, to deny Burrows isn't involved in some way with our off field activity and subsequent nosedive is ridiculous. Still doing the media interviews smacks of running with the hares and hunting with the hounds. T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 +1 for me, spot on, to deny Burrows isn't involved in some way with our off field activity and subsequent nosedive is ridiculous. Still doing the media interviews smacks of running with the hares and hunting with the hounds. T What specific activities do you think 'Flow's involvement has caused to nosedive since he took over as GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprawell Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 She gained the "Executive" to her title as time progressed and JB's regular involvement diminished. However her CV before coming to Motherwell was hardly dazzling and a lot less impressive than Alan's. Total garbage, please try and get your facts right. A blind man can see she has a much stronger CV than Alan Burrows before Motherwell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprawell Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I would say commercially the club could have been more ruthless and prudent in a difficult marketplace. Alan's lack of experience has exposed us to not creating the revenue opportunities with another more streetwise and savvy General Manager/Chief Executive could have created for the club. I am not anti-Alan Burrows, I am however concerned that we have been operating with someone who lacks the commercial experience in the business world especially when we are faced with some of the toughest times financially. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 This thread is fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 This thread is fun. Now the Killie game is off, maybe a topic for the next podcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Now the Killie game is off, maybe a topic for the next podcast. Well we will need something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm not going to post in this thread because I really really don't care. Paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I am not anti-Alan Burrows, I am however concerned that we have been operating with someone who lacks the commercial experience in the business world especially when we are faced with some of the toughest times financially. Careful... Thats my thoughts exactly and I'm being castrated as some sort of raving lunatic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nothing. So just to be clear, you have no idea what his job description is, but you know that he isn't doing it well and isn't qualified enough for it? I would say commercially the club could have been more ruthless and prudent in a difficult marketplace. Alan's lack of experience has exposed us to not creating the revenue opportunities with another more streetwise and savvy General Manager/Chief Executive could have created for the club. How do you know this, and how do you know that that is one of his responsibilities? I don't know Mr Burrows personally, and I don't mean to discredit him, but I am fairly certain that his responsibilities will be to do stuff like manage the office staff, the media team, oversee marketing stuff (for the 'Well Shop and "buy a brick" etc etc), and he won't have anything to do with a lot of what some of the people on here think he does. I'm not discrediting his position as "he just does X, Y & Z", but I doubt it's advanced as thrashing out players' contracts and working on 5 year deals with kit sponsors etc. Edit - another point, if we were currently third in the league and still in one of the cups there is zero chance we'd be having this discussion. Things go wrong on the park and people start to criticise left, right and centre. In reality, the only people who should be criticised right now are the players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Total garbage, please try and get your facts right. A blind man can see she has a much stronger CV than Alan Burrows before Motherwell. OK, list her prior experience then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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