Relegation

[Goggles & Flippers]

So it's a shoe in it's definitely happening then?

 

OK folks, nobody bother showing up at FP again this season, Milo says it's a lost cause. In fact if anyone would have listened we could have saved ourselves a lot of money, heartache and hassle if we just heeded his prophecy back in January.

[Frazzie]

He is right though.

[CoF]

For me it's now 50/50 or maybe closer to 60/40 for relegation (due to the Championship the having upward momentum).

 

 

Not necessarily. If we put in a strong run (which I think we'll do) and still end up in the play-off's (which I also think we'll do) I don't think any team facing us will be overly confident. They will also have had an extra 2 / 4 games to pick up injuries and cards whereas Iassume we'll have had a break to recover and focus on the game.

[Prestwickwell]

 

Not necessarily. If we put in a strong run (which I think we'll do) and still end up in the play-off's (which I also think we'll do) I don't think any team facing us will be overly confident. They will also have had an extra 2 / 4 games to pick up injuries and cards whereas Iassume we'll have had a break to recover and focus on the game.

Spot on

 

The next 5 games for me are all about gaining confidence & momentum & giving it our best shot regardless of who we get in the play off

 

Someone said it before

 

Our seasons all about 1 game now

[Orinoco]

Just knew someone would come out with the told you so comment. Do season ticket holders get a refund for last 2/3 games as our season is over. We will never achieve anything positive with the defeatest mindset.whatever happens everyone associated with the club needs to positive otherwise we will never move forward and would be as well packing it in.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I'm just thinking if he'd been about outside Fir Park before the Odense, Celtic Cup Final, Rangers Cup Final, Icelandic mob, Greek bods and Nancy games then I would be over £150 better off.

 

But I'd be the world's biggest fud for listening to him.

 

I describe myself as a supporter, not a pessimist or even a realist.

[Prestwickwell]

I'm just thinking if he'd been about outside Fir Park before the Odense, Celtic Cup Final, Rangers Cup Final, Icelandic mob, Greek bods and Nancy games then I would be over £150 better off.

 

But I'd be the world's biggest fud for listening to him.

 

I describe myself as a supporter, not a pessimist or even a realist.

Ha ha we're all supporters.

 

But a forum is a place where people have views.

 

& if u want to think we can get out of this mess brilliant.....

 

& if others want to think we're going down & give valid reasons for it then it's their opinion.....

 

For what people think the negative stuff is annoying......

 

The happy clapper stuff/ I'm a better supporter than u chat is equally annoying ( in my opinion )

[Yassin]

For what it's worth , I do think we're destined for the playoffs, but to say we're already relegated is foolish. We've got either 5 or 7 chances left to dig ourselves out of this.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Ha ha we're all supporters.

 

But a forum is a place where people have views.

 

& if u want to think we can get out of this mess brilliant.....

 

& if others want to think we're going down & give valid reasons for it then it's their opinion.....

 

It's not about thinking it, it's perfectly realistic we can maintain our status, either through finishing 10th or winning a 2 leg play off. I am under no illusion the size of the task but it's not pie in the sky stuff.

 

If any player showed even a fraction of the despair spouted on here, those same people would be barracking them relentlessly from the East Stand, that is if they venture back this season.

 

As for the valid reasons and opinion talk, I haven't seen many valid ones given other than we lost on Saturday.

 

The happy clapper stuff/ I'm a better supporter than u chat is equally annoying ( in my opinion )

 

As for that, just geez peace, whipping out that old chestnut is the akin to someone whipping out the "nazi" line in a thread.

 

Opinions and perception aren't like facts and reality, and shouldn't be confused. Bullshit can't be justified by adding the "opinion" caveat.

[ropy]

Home leg or away leg?

[Prestwickwell]

 

It's not about thinking it, it's perfectly realistic we can maintain our status, either through finishing 10th or winning a 2 leg play off. I am under no illusion the size of the task but it's not pie in the sky stuff.

 

If any player showed even a fraction of the despair spouted on here, those same people would be barracking them relentlessly from the East Stand, that is if they venture back this season.

 

As for the valid reasons and opinion talk, I haven't seen many valid ones given other than we lost on Saturday.

 

 

As for that, just geez peace, whipping out that old chestnut is the akin to someone whipping out the "nazi" line in a thread.

 

Opinions and perception aren't like facts and reality, and shouldn't be confused. Bullshit can't be justified by adding the "opinion" caveat.

You might not like the better supporter chat but it's definitely creeping into a couple of posts without being directly said.

 

On the valid reasons chat I was going to ask something similar.

 

I think we can win a play off.

 

We won't avoid 11th. Simply because we've won 9 ( I think ) games all season.

 

There was chat in the other thread about winning our next 5.

 

When we've won 9 all season, what basis do you think we can win our next 5????

[ONeils40yarder]

My main concern with relegation is that we never get back to the Premiership. Look at Dunfermiline, Falkirk and Livingston as examples of this.

 

As a few have said, we would have our squad decimated in the summer and would have no leverage to attract better players as we would be in the diddy league.

 

Anyway I think even if we end up in the playoffs that we have enough about us to beat either Rangers, Hibs or QOS.

 

Livingston? Come on tae fuck, the day I group Motherwell with a kid on Club like Livingston is the day I take my weans to Ibrox or Parkhead with my season ticket money.

 

Take your point in general though, although I'd argue that we are in a better position financially than those other two Clubs mentioned when they went down, have the benefit of a virtual blank canvas to work with, have a more consistent history as a top-level Club rather than the yo-yo-like existence that Falkirk and Dunfermline enjoyed prior to their final relegation and will probably have the consistency of keeping our current manager for a tilt at the Championship title.

 

If we do get relegated, and I'm far from convinced that we will, unlike drama queens such as Milo, I will be utterly gutted at the prospect but our Club will continue and I'd expect us to go all-out to regain our status in 1 season in the same manner that Hearts have done this season and Hibs and Dundee United have previously.

[Frazzie]

I know Milo is generally a prophet of doom, but have I missed what he's said that's causing such mock outrage here? You are quoting "opinion" to justify projecting your own thoughts then criticising others for doing the same.

 

Some people think we'll stay up, others (myself included) think we're done. None of us are revelling in it. It does seem like there is a wee crew of posters happy to round on anyone with a negative attitude with their "holier than thou" pish. How you can expect to come on a fans forum of a team that's clocked up 20 league defeats marooned in 11th and not see negativity is beyond me.

[Lobey_Dosser]

I know Milo is generally a prophet of doom, but have I missed what he's said that's causing such mock outrage here? You are quoting "opinion" to justify projecting your own thoughts then criticising others for doing the same.

Some people think we'll stay up, others (myself included) think we're done. None of us are revelling in it. It does seem like there is a wee crew of posters happy to round on anyone with a negative attitude with their "holier than thou" pish. How you can expect to come on a fans forum of a team that's clocked up 20 league defeats marooned in 11th and not see negativity is beyond me.

Despite the Thistle game, the quality and commitment we have now is far superior to what was served up August-February. Its therefore way too early to resign ourselves to a playoff. And if a playoff does arise, then as a club and a fan base we need to approach it positively unlike Hibs last year, who crumbled under the fear and resignation.

[Kmcalpin]

 

If any player showed even a fraction of the despair spouted on here, those same people would be barracking them relentlessly from the East Stand, that is if they venture back this season.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Of course were in a precarious position no ones denying that. However as long as there's a chance we'll stay up then we fight on and fight together.

We can do without a defeatist attitude at Fir Park.

[Andy_P]

I know Milo is generally a prophet of doom, but have I missed what he's said that's causing such mock outrage here? You are quoting "opinion" to justify projecting your own thoughts then criticising others for doing the same.

 

Some people think we'll stay up, others (myself included) think we're done. None of us are revelling in it. It does seem like there is a wee crew of posters happy to round on anyone with a negative attitude with their "holier than thou" pish. How you can expect to come on a fans forum of a team that's clocked up 20 league defeats marooned in 11th and not see negativity is beyond me.

 

I would hope you aren't including me in this apparent "holier than thou crew"; or feeling I've somehow harangued the guy? I've hardly been indulging in the Jim Murphy style shouty pointy finger stuff when responding to his posts.

 

Perhaps expecting the worst, hoping for better is Milo's emotional defence to the unravelling of things but I'll go back to the statement made in the Thistle thread about effectively being relegated before the split as the trigger for me responding. I thought it was daft, said it was daft. Milo responded much more reasonably I felt thereafter. No outrage here.

 

But whilst there's there's a chance of staying up automatically, never mind winning a play-off I don't see that it does a great deal of good, asking that we consider life in the Championship. The time for that for me is when we are confirmed as playing in the Championship. That's the time to let rip with the fury about the manager, the players, the worries about the future and whatever else. The focus for me has to be on the here and now and dealing with it as positively as we can.

 

Everyone is entitled to post their opinions and views no question but what I'd say is that a drip-drip-drip effect of negativity in this current situation is only likely give people the jitters and add to any anxieties and the concern for me is that if you go into a game with your support tensed up and ready to explode if things immediately don't go well, then that's not going to help the situation much.

 

I often read people justify rants and outbursts on forums (not specifically here I hasten to add) by saying they are doing it online, not at a game and so where's the harm. But remember too that some folk come on to forums not to vent their spleen but to reassure themselves that others too believe as they do and to find hope.

 

Is it so much to ask that for the greater good, if you genuinely think we're up shit cheek you haud your wheesht for a few weeks and just try to be positive? Plenty of time for I told you so's and finger pointing further down the line if the worst does indeed come to the worst.

[ONeils40yarder]

I know Milo is generally a prophet of doom, but have I missed what he's said that's causing such mock outrage here? You are quoting "opinion" to justify projecting your own thoughts then criticising others for doing the same.

 

Some people think we'll stay up, others (myself included) think we're done. None of us are revelling in it. It does seem like there is a wee crew of posters happy to round on anyone with a negative attitude with their "holier than thou" pish. How you can expect to come on a fans forum of a team that's clocked up 20 league defeats marooned in 11th and not see negativity is beyond me.

'Mock outrage'

 

I understand that there are plenty of people who reckon we are done. There are 15 points still to play for against teams that we can drag back into the mix and potentially a 2-legged play-off against QoS, Hibs or Rangers.

 

To be honest, I've taken more exception with Milo's belief that we'll be relegated via the play-off rather than his belief that we'll be in the play-off, as its just an opinion based on absolutely hee-haw other than his general 'prophet of doom' characteristics.

[1991]

It's amazing the difference a week makes after last week's victories we were talking of finishing as high as 8th but now we are already relegated, yes we were well beaten by thistle but if we win all of remaining games which is possible then I think we will just about be ok, if the worst happens and we end up in playoff surely we have the players capable of beating any of the 3

[Prestwickwell]

It's amazing the difference a week makes after last week's victories we were talking of finishing as high as 8th but now we are already relegated, yes we were well beaten by thistle but if we win all of remaining games which is possible then I think we will just about be ok, if the worst happens and we end up in playoff surely we have the players capable of beating any of the 3

 

Think that's the point though.

 

A lot of sensible posts were made that Thistle was going to be a difficult game & then on the flip side there were posters predicting a 3 goal victory.

 

Don't get me wrong we had 3 very very good results against Hamilton, St Mirren & Kilmarnock but people were definitely getting carried away.

 

9 victories all season simply means we wont win 5 on the bounce.

 

Can we win the play off???

 

We certainly can but i'd be dreading a trip to Ibrox based on previous experiences.

 

For me it's a good time for people to debate whether they think we'll stay up or not, there wouldnt be much debate after its all done & dusted

[Catweazles ring piece]

The odds and probabilities say we're ending up no higher than 11th.

What a negative bast@rd!

Looking forward to the Mensa Brigade, showing me the formulae to disprove my comment and to scribble the inverse exponential of us losing matches and gaining the necessary points to escape the play offs. I'm sure in there workings, it'll also have some sort of sub routine that loops back to a gratifying statement that says, I know what I'm talking about, I'm a better supporter than you.

 

Here is my workings, {2*$=%*~3.142}= fuck off and gees piece!

[Prestwickwell]

The odds and probabilities say we're ending up no higher than 11th.

What a negative bast@rd!

Looking forward to the Mensa Brigade, showing me the formulae to disprove my comment and to scribble the inverse exponential of us losing matches and gaining the necessary points to escape the play offs. I'm sure in there workings, it'll also have some sort of sub routine that loops back to a gratifying statement that says, I know what I'm talking about, I'm a better supporter than you.

 

Here is my workings, {2*$=%*~3.142}= fuck off and gees piece!

 

I wish i had wrote that ha ha

[Jay]

For me, there is a difference between being negative and being realistic. The former is berating young players, demanding the manager gets sacked, calling our entire team shite, and the rest of it. Being realistic, however, is simply putting forward an opinion based on where we currently find ourselves and the most likely outcome of that.

The problem on here is that too many people decide to bung both those together, then moan about both groups of folk being negative.

 

It's telling that Buxe on the podcast made the point that Steelmen Online can sometimes be perceived as negative but it helps stimulate discussion, yet the main culprits of trying to stifle debate at the moment seem to be those taking offence at others expressing belief we're heading for the playoffs or relegation.

Between the "woe is me" patter from those who have chucked it and the hints of a "holier than thou" attitude from those who, rather than indulge in debate and conversation choose just to dismiss opinions they don't agree with, there are actually folk in between who just think what is currently the most likely outcome (ie. us finishing 11th) is now going to happen.

I'll still be supporting the side at every game left and holding out hope we can turn things around, but that doesn't detract from my opinion that we'll finish 11th - and no amount of folk deciding I'm being negative changes that.

If we finish 11th having still managed to finish the season strongly, then hopefully we can take that momentum into the playoff. However, our mentality this season has been incredibly poor and I thought we bottled it on Saturday with a big crowd at a massive six pointer so, at the moment, I'm concerned that we'd struggle to rise to the occasion of a playoff.

 

Can we finish 10th? Absolutely. Do I think we will? No.

Can we win a playoff? Of course. Do I think we will? Still too far away to judge.

[Andy_P]

The odds and probabilities say we're ending up no higher than 11th.

What a negative bast@rd!

Looking forward to the Mensa Brigade, showing me the formulae to disprove my comment and to scribble the inverse exponential of us losing matches and gaining the necessary points to escape the play offs. I'm sure in there workings, it'll also have some sort of sub routine that loops back to a gratifying statement that says, I know what I'm talking about, I'm a better supporter than you.

 

Here is my workings, {2*$=%*~3.142}= fuck off and gees piece!

Suggesting the odds and probabilities are we will finish no higher than 11th, given where we are today, would seem perfectly realistic to me. If on the other hand you were insisting that we were doomed despite having a slim chance to get out of it automatically and have a play-off beyond that, yeah I would have termed that as being negative.

 

No need to request a formulae to disprove your belief though. I haven't read them personally as I believe it's better to re-assess the battleground as it were on a game by game basis. But enough have already posted potential escape routes however fanciful they might be if you are seeking inspiration.

 

Interesting that you've chose to throw in the "better supporter" accusation though. Not quite getting that. Everyone has an assessment of where we are and where we will be come the end of the season. All I've consistently tried to do is offer an alternative mindset of dealing with the situation than running about shouting to anyone who'll listen that we're doomed. I'm no less or no better than any other supporter because of that.

 

But I will "fuck off and gee you piece" as you put it. Said my bit a few times over now. Each to their own how they deal with it, I know how I'm approaching the games ahead.

[maxywell]

This would be the worst season to finish second bottom and the second worst in SPL history to be relegated.Dunfermline and Falkirk didn't have it as hard as we will if we go down.Assuming Rangers go up then there's still Hibs, St Mirren, Falkirk etc in the first division.Fair enough the playoffs still give us a chance but Hibs will have that extra year experience playing at that level and for me would be very difficult to finish above and there's no guarantee that we'd be capable of coming up through the playoffs.

 

If we go down then next season will be the most important in our recent history.Come straight back up and it was just a blip and something different for the fans, stay down and there's every chance we won't be playing SPFL football for many years.

[Jay]

If we go down then next season will be the most important in our recent history.Come straight back up and it was just a blip and something different for the fans, stay down and there's every chance we won't be playing SPFL football for many years.

I'm genuinely interested as to why so many 'Well fans attach such despair and, more importantly, finality to this?

 

Don't get me wrong - of course we all want to remain in the top flight and nobody wants us to languish in the First Division for years, but what if we do? Even if it resulted in the extreme predictions of part-time football, so what? Again, it's obviously not what any of us want and it would be a dark day in the club's history, but I really fail to see why "if we go down we won't come back up for ages" and "attendances and finance will drop and we'll end up part-time" are given as these terrible conclusions with no further comment when, in reality, they are just unfortunate changes in the club's circumstances. I'd suspect if it happened (and it's a purely hypothetical, massive "if"), we'd largely be quite content as long as we were in existence.