Booze At Games

[Goggles & Flippers]

The following BBC Website Article has raised a question worthy of debate. Can't help feel Jim Murphy brought it up as a populist policy to try and stem the hemorrhaging of the Labour party in Scotland however the SFA have now entered a consultation.

 

I'll start a poll to see what the general consensus is among SOL contributors. At one end we've got the status quo and the other would be similar to what's available to you when you walk into your local Wotherspoons. Obviously there are a whole host of other options in the spectrum between the above. So feel free to make suggestions.

 

A regular point brought up by the pro-alcohol lobby is rugby games. I've attended many internationals and the general behaviour of rugby fans is very different to football fans in my experience.

 

Also it was only just over a year ago that the south stand was left looking like downtown Baghdad after the unwashed arrived for a 7:45 KO, no doubt a few responsible were leathered.

 

However attendances are in decline, would this encourage a few people back? If so, how much would you charge, how could you ensure booze could be enjoyed responsibly, etc.

 

 

 

The Scottish Football Association (SFA) has said it will seek the views of fans on whether alcohol should be sold at stadiums during matches.It said it wanted to "build a case" in favour of lifting the ban.

 

Police Scotland Chief Constable Stephen House said he would enter into formal discussions, if an independent consultation finds widespread support for the idea.

 

Scottish Labour is campaigning for the alcohol ban to be dropped.

 

The ban was initially imposed following a riot at the 1980 Scottish Cup final between Rangers and Celtic but alcohol can be served in corporate hospitality areas of football stadiums.

 

The SFA said it would hold focus groups and poll football supporters on the issue.

 

The head of Police Scotland, Chief Constable House has written to SNP MSP George Adam, who is also campaigning to get the ban lifted.

 

The chief constable said he would be "extremely concerned by any proposal to amend legislation in respect of alcohol at football matches in Scotland".

 

However, he said if the outcome of an independent public consultation backed the idea then "we will of course enter into formal discussions with the footballing authorities".

 

Scottish Labour has been canvassing the views of fans at matches this weekend.

 

Mr Murphy spoke to fans outside St Mirren's match against Inverness Caledonian Thistle on SaturdayParty leader Jim Murphy said football fans should not be treated differently from rugby supporters at Murrayfield, where drinking is permitted.

 

The party has arranged a meeting at Hampden on Friday with the aim of gauging views on the issues.

 

Representatives from the Scottish Football Association, football clubs and Police Scotland will be invited to attend.

 

Justice Secretary Michael Matheson previously said he had "no plans" to lift the ban on alcohol sales.

 

Last December, Mr Murphy told the BBC Scotland's Off the Ball radio programme that he was in favour of trialling the return of alcohol to stadiums in order to "improve the experience of the supporter".

 

On Saturday, the Labour leader and other party members handed out questionnaires to fans at St Mirren's match against Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

 

He will also attend the Hamilton Academical v Aberdeen game at New Douglas Park later to collect more signatures for the campaign.

 

He said: "If you go to a rugby match in Scotland you can drink. If you go to a football match in England you can drink. If you go to a football match in Scotland, in hospitality, you can drink.

 

"Why is it that these folk who come to games like this all across Scotland are not allowed by law to drink?

 

"We know there has been a problem in the past but this group of supporters shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of their grandfather's generation."

 

He urged fans to fill in the survey and said: "Let's see if we can persuade football and the police to do this in a careful way."

 

 

Last year, Justice Secretary Mr Matheson said: "If there was any consideration of looking at this matter there would have to be a consultation with the police, other enforcement bodies and local authorities to consider what the implications were."

[ropy]

I drive to most games home and away, can get a drink in the Cooper suite before or after the match if I want, nothing in this for me

[Big Stall]

Maybe good in theory, reality from what iv experienced at a few English Championship games is a bit different. Freezing cold November Saturday, stand and drink some cats piss lager out a plastic tumbler. Doable if your on a day session with your mates, not exactly tempting otherwise. Particularly with new alcohol tolerances for those driving.

 

To each their own though

 

 

I would say, at summer football it might be more appealing. Think of those red hot evenings we had in Euro qualifiers at the excelcior, a lager at half time might be decent, even if it still was cats piss

[Yoshi-1991]

Do I want drink at games? Yes

 

Is it worth voting for that scumbag? No

[Kmcalpin]

Unfortunately a few troublemakers can't handle alcoholic drink, but you'd think they'd know that...wrong. Apart from that drink driving laws will prevent many drivers from indulging - many fans drive to games these days. .

[fizoxy]

I doubt this will result in supporters drinking any more than they do currently, it will just mean the clubs get the money instead of the pubs. Might work in conjunction with safe standing.

[Yoshi-1991]

Anyone that can get pished enough during the time span of a game to cause any trouble are too young to drink, I don't understand the argument in that respect. During the time span of a game any normal person would really only be able to drink 2-3 pints.

 

Would it help put arses in seats? Maybe a few but not so many that it would make any great difference. What it will do as said by fizoxy is put extra cash in the tills of the clubs.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Good to see Murphy has his priorities right. I'd rather drink my own urine than support any populist move by that war supporting unionist prick.

[Goggles & Flippers]

To suggest people would rock up at the football and that's where they'd have their first pint is naive.

 

Maybe the majority will but in this argument it is the few that will define how things pan out. I suspect there will be an element who will abuse it and cause hassle. They'll be the ones who arrive merry enough to avoid the eye of the cops/stewards but inside a few beers could result in bawbagery.

Everything about rugby is different, the players respect and don't intimidate the referees, the fans aren't as tribal and I can't ever remember seeing or reading about crowd violence despite it often happening on the pitch much in excess of football pitches.

[Andy_P]

In full agreement that it's a populist ploy by Murphy. He threw in another one a week or two back to tempt Yes voting weegies with talk of revisiting the Glasgow Crossrail plan. No finance to implement the project ofcourse but that's neither here nor there....

 

That said, leaving the politics of the issue aside in principle I really don't see why not. Adopt a similar proviso to that in England that your consumption has to be outwith the gaze of the pitch then why not give people the choice. And that to me is what it's all about, choice.

 

And the very same goes with the debate about the opportunity to stand, give people choices.

[Dee]

In full agreement that it's a populist ploy by Murphy. He threw in another one a week or two back to tempt Yes voting weegies with talk of revisiting the Glasgow Crossrail plan. No finance to implement the project ofcourse but that's neither here nor there....

 

That said, leaving the politics of the issue aside in principle I really don't see why not. Adopt a similar proviso to that in England that your consumption has to be outwith the gaze of the pitch then why not give people the choice. And that to me is what it's all about, choice.

 

And the very same goes with the debate about the opportunity to stand, give people choices.

 

AndyP hits the nail on the head.

 

Murphy is a moron.

 

Bringing booze back is a must. Clubs in our country need the revenue!

[madscot]

AndyP hits the nail on the head.

 

Murphy is a moron.

 

Bringing booze back is a must. Clubs in our country need the revenue!

 

How much would you pay for a pint ?

[SteelmaninOZ]

We can have a beer or two here in the A-League before during and after the game and I have yet to read hear or see anything about drunken behavior. But we have free public transport to games so you can have a few, but I do think the guys that drive to and from the games it wont matter much.

[ONeils40yarder]

I'm surprised to see that the 'Status Quo' outweighs all other options in this poll, yet hardly any posts from those that say they dont want alcohol to be re-introduced. Strange that!!

 

 

In the old days before alcohol was banned to the regular punter at the fitba', and before I was born, by all accounts supporters carried, often huge carry-outs into the game to be consumed for the whole 90mins...this isnt what this is about though, no one is saying bring a rucksack full of buckie and special brew through the bloody turnstile, its, as someone else put it, about choice. Do I want to have a pint whilst watching my team? In January, probably not, better with a bovril...in May or August, probably aye.

 

 

Make no bones about it, Jim Murphy is a fucking toerag, an opportunistic wanker of the highest order, who thinks this type of petition will win him/his party votes...it may well do, but as a long-time advocate of re-introducing alcohol to the general football supporting-populace, I'm not going to change my mind because that cunt is driving it. At the end of the day, he'll have no power to go ahead with it, but if it gets the motion a head of steam, then alls good.

 

 

I'd actually go a step further than what Murphy is proposing, and allow alcohol to be served throughout the whole 90mins AND for it to be consumed at your seat. Its allowed at English Stadia, Concerts, cinemas, at the darts, rugby, boxing, snooker, ...you can get a bottle of beer when you're getting your haircut these days, you can get shit-faced from 11am until 1am in any town in Scotland. Its tolerated at Junior football level, where guys do still take carry-outs with them...football is competing with all of these things, and its customers deserve the choice of whether they want to cool down in the Summer months with a pint or not.

 

 

If someone is drunk, refuse to serve them anymore, if someone is acting lke a dick, fuck them out...its pretty simple really. As for the real issue...Old Firm Games (and to a lesser extent, other derby matches, or high risk matches as the authorities like to describe them) make them booze free.

 

 

Time to treat paying adult customers, like paying adult customers....me? I probably wouldnt take advantage of it too often in any case, drive to most matches with the kids in tow, but I can see when people are being treated like shite and can have an opinion even if its not to my benefit as some on here have selfishly professed.

 

 

I've yet to hear even a semi-decent argument against the halfway house re-introduction that Jim Murphy is advocating...someone mentioned our 'sick man of Europe' status on the radio earlier, and that we drink 20% more alcohol per head than that of our English and Welsh neighbours, and that this is sending out the wrong message...what a load of shite, society as a whole obviously has an issue with our relationship with alcohol, but football supporters being treated as neanderthals, whilst every other facet of society is free to do as they please is downright embarassing.

[Mitch]

Wouldnt be upset either way. Having been to a number of matches in England it is a nice novelty but not one that I would take advantage of every week. The choice should be there for adults to decide if they want a pint at the football.

 

Its a revenue stream that clubs need to be able to exploit. Then again we have failed to have a bookmakers in the stadium for some time now. Surely another area that we need to push forward.

[Spiderpig]

Is it such a hardship to go without a drink for 90 mins, i think not, in my case i drive to every game so i would not be drinking and i suspect that there are a lot more fans in the same position. I am old enough to remember going to games when taking in a " Carry out" was the norm, and at that time football stadiums were not nice places to be, i am not so sure if there really is a demand from fans to have the law changed.

[ONeils40yarder]

Of course it isnt a hardship, but you can say that about anytime you fancy a drink. Is it really such a hardship to have a mineral water with your meal rather than a glass of wine? Lets ban bevvy altogether

[ropy]

Try it in the lower divisions for a couple of years and see what lessons there are

[Mitch]

Is it such a hardship to go without a drink for 90 mins, i think not, in my case i drive to every game so i would not be drinking and i suspect that there are a lot more fans in the same position. I am old enough to remember going to games when taking in a " Carry out" was the norm, and at that time football stadiums were not nice places to be, i am not so sure if there really is a demand from fans to have the law changed.

 

That is a shit arguement. It isnt about not being able to go 90mins without a drink. Its about having the choice in the same way you would if you went to the cinema. Also a nice cold pint on a spring/summer day would be very welcome and enhance the experience.

 

Someone could make the same arguement that you should be able to go 90mins without something to eat at a football match...

[FJ-94]

Think the main people who would cause the problems with drink are the ones who are tanked up anyway. Has to be done right. Go to the rugby a lot and the pints are a decent standard, no restrictions on how many you can buy as well. It's 4 quid or so for a pint which is expensive yes but I guess would cap how much people are drinking.

[superward]

Like a lot of others I drive so wouldn't be able to take a drink most weeks. But it would be nice to have the choice and if it brings a wee bit more money and maybe a few more folk to the game then I am for it.

[Onthefringes]

Is it such a hardship to go without a drink for 90 mins, i think not, in my case i drive to every game so i would not be drinking and i suspect that there are a lot more fans in the same position. I am old enough to remember going to games when taking in a " Carry out" was the norm, and at that time football stadiums were not nice places to be, i am not so sure if there really is a demand from fans to have the law changed.

It's archaic attitudes like this that are holding others back. Your predeliction for attanding the match as it was then was over 30 years ago! Football has changed, society has changed. Why should Scottish football fans be treated any differently to those who enjoy the options elsewhere in the country?

 

You say you drive to every game & yes, there will be plenty others doing similar, so most likely among that group, little demand from fans to have the law changed. Why then would it be a problem? Mock outrage? It's laughable.

 

Many on here will have sampled the opportunity south of the border & it's not as relaxed as being made out in some quarters - it's regimented & run like a well oiled (no pun intended) machine & any problem is swiftly & robustly dealt with. Not that I've seen a lot despite being at many fixtures that can be described as 'powderkeg'.

 

Part of their success in England is the overall matchday experience, whilst it's a capital raising exercise in the main and very lucrative to most, having a drink is an added bonus.

 

Time we embraced change.

 

*Just to add. We have little facilities to be able to offer the service at our club at the moment & I'd doubt that'll change even if the law was changed

[coldonmac]

As someone who remembers why alcohol at football was banned I haven't seen any improvement in the Scottish mentality with regards the ability to handle alcohol in the 30+ years since the ban was introduced to justify its return.

 

Whether or not we like it football and alcohol don't mix.

 

Also for a Club like Motherwell the chances are any income from alcohol sales would be outweighed by the increases in the costs. Currently very few Well matches require a Police presence inside the ground, but do you think that would stil be the case if alcohol was on sale?

[Mitch]

*Just to add. We have little facilities to be able to offer the service at our club at the moment & I'd doubt that'll change even if the law was changed

 

Surely it could be done in the stands with the exception of the East Stand? I have not been in the Cooper Stand for years but could turn one of the kiosks into a bar area and do the same in the South. Main stand might be a little harder.

[Andy_P]

This is quite spooky actually. I recollected in the past an MSP from Fife pushing the issue and that one of the arguments in favour of the re-introduction had collected had actually come from the police themselves, the belief being it would remove the rush from the boozer to the turnstiles in the last few minutes before kick-off.

 

I did a bit of googling to substantiate my recollection before posting a reply and what I did find but this.....

 

 

From the GLF archives at Fir Park Corner...

 

MINE'S A PINT……HOPEFULLY!!!!

 

It's fairly clear that there's a growing dissatisfaction amongst your rank and file fitba' these days that the footballing watching experience is become more and more eroded with each passing year.

 

We need only recollect the fortnightly battle of wills that went on between stewards and punters in the East Stand over fans wanting to stand and support their team. Folk have been ejected from grounds for the heinous crime of taking a photo or two of the game, trying to display a flag of any decent size almost guarantees you a visit from a handful of yellow jackets playing God as to whether you can display it and those before we even come to the contentious issue of what we are being asked to fork out for the privilege of the above. It's no wonder fans groups such as our own 'Well Boys '86 are campaigning under a banner of 'Reclaim the Game'.

 

Another area where your Scottish football fan is discriminated against is being able to enjoy a drink at a game and this is one issue where I've taken an interest. I'm possibly a strange candidate for fighting our corner in this instance seeing as its few and far between I partake before and after games. The key thing for me here though, as it is when it comes to standing up, smoking, drinking, whatever the issue is - choice.

 

And currently we are unfairly dictated to in so many ways when it comes to the simple matter of going about our business of attending a game of football.

 

 

 

In terms of alcohol at events in sporting arenas, we're currently faced with the situation where you can have a beer at a Scotland rugby international and only recently the cameras panned in on those at the Open enjoying a wee refreshment and most ludicrously of all there's the scenario where you can drink at concerts in football stadiums yet its completely taboo whenever a games actually on!

 

Fortunately there are one or two in high places who have identified this anomaly and are keen to foster some debate in the hope that change may be around the corner. I noted during the close season that Fife MSP John Park intends raising the issue in the Scottish Parliament after the summer recess. I contacted Mr Park and he was quick to respond outlining his proposals. These amount to modest changes and would in effect allow you have a beer or two for a short time before a game. You wouldn't for example be able to take in a cargo as in days of old, or drink at your seat during game. Only a small step forward perhaps, but a step forward nonetheless and who knows what extensions may follow if that proved to be a success.

 

Mr Park went on to advise that of the people's opinions he had sought, there was a 60-40 split in approval for the re-introduction of the sale of alcohol in our football grounds. He also added interestingly that Northumbria police were on record supporting the sale of beer in stadiums in England because it actually helped them with crowd control, in other words - not so much of a five-to-three charge to the turnstiles from the boozer.

 

Encouraged by the response from Mr Park I took it upon myself to pester my local MSP and all our Central Scotland list MSPs to encourage them to support John Park's proposals when they are up for update at Holyrood. At the time of writing, despite it being their holiday season half of them have thus far responded and each, at worst, have given their tentative backing to the plans.

 

Perhaps if this is something you would like to see happen you might want to do the same to let our MSPs know there is a will amongst supporters for the re-introduction of alcohol in our stadiums.

 

On this issue I can see several positives, as already stated we as individuals will have the choice if want to have a beer before the game, the police will benefit from having more supporters inside grounds in good time before kick-off and clubs will benefit from the additional revenues.

 

In terms of the bigger picture, if it comes to fruition and is successful, I can see it as perhaps the oil tanker beginning to turn around. If the authorities see we can handle this, perhaps they'll be more inclined to listen to our pleas on the re-introduction of standing at games as well. Pie in the sky perhaps, we can but try.

 

Oh and if and when it happens and you see me in the East Stand - mine's a pint of Miller, thanks!!!

 

 

 

Andy Paterson

 

 

I wouldn't say my arguments have changed much in the intervening years.