2015/16 Ins & Outs

[superward]

Renew.

 

We still need experience and we cannot go with a pairing the likes of Hall and Laing/Kennedy just yet. But we need to be planning for the future at the same time with the youth and bleeding them in.

 

Of the out of contract players I would be letting Clarkson, Moore, Fletcher and Leitch go. I would be trying to move on Chalmers too as he is nowhere near good enough.

 

Would be offering Las on a 1 year deal.

McManus and Hammy 1 with another year option.

Skippy on a 2 year deal.

 

Samson and Faddy I would stall on to see what else is about before committing.

 

Gomis can go back and assume Ripley will be the same.

[Desp]

Never mind McManus. What's happened to these free agents?

 

McGhee out!

[capt_oats]

As far as McManus goes I can see the arguments for and against and in that respect I don't feel strongly either way. As long as we get Hall, Cadden on longer term deals and McDonald's +1 extension taken up as priorities.

 

Having heard McGhee talk about being able to play Hall alongside McManus on account of his experience then I've no real doubt that he'll be offered terms and in truth I'm fine with that though equally if he can get a better deal elsewhere then I wouldn't lose any sleep if he moved on. For me, McManus has something to offer though I'm not sure his value in that respect warrants him (presumably) being one of our highest earners, if that makes sense.

 

In the event McManus did leave then it'd put us in the market for an experienced left sided centre half and it does beg the question of who, realistically, we'd be able to bring in? For all McManus has had poor runs of form (extended at times) it's not as if there are many of our direct competition fielding completely infallible centre halves.

 

While I'd be happy enough to see guys like Hammell and Lasley offered extensions, I think that has to be on the proviso that they'll be playing less and that anyone we bring in has to be better than what we have in the first team at the moment. I don't think the squad needs another massive overhaul however what it does need is 3 or 4 players of a genuine first team quality in key positions.

[Kmcalpin]

I'd release Clarkson, Moore, Fletcher, McFadden, Leitch and try to move on Chalmers and Law. However I'd also release probably two from McManus, Hammell and Lasley - don't forget these elder statesmen will be a year older and even slower. All three are losing their legs and this is manifesting itself in slumps in the latter stages of games, which have been costly. We do need a blend of experience and youth however. Don't forget we also have Pearo who is on the wrong side of 30. If we have 2 players over 30 in the side that will be enough.

 

The jury is still out on Gomis - he's not had time to settle in yet and we haven't seen enough of him to make a considered assessment.

[swami]

Stephen McManus can do one. Pound for pound, he is the most disappointing player in the squad, and is an integral part of one of the worst defences I can remember.

 

He's rubbish and I don't like him. He is definitely getting a new contract though.

[capt_oats]

The jury is still out on Gomis - he's not had time to settle in yet and we haven't seen enough of him to make a considered assessment.

To be honest I think Gomis is what he is, a short term midfield option until the end of the season to cover injury/suspension for Lasley or Cadden not stepping on as he has. Given that he himself seemed pretty surprised to even be here when he signed I'd be amazed if he was a player we were even considering beyond the end of his loan term.

[Wellfan84]

Id keep McManus for one more year. Continue to develop Hall, Laing, Kennedy. I think Stevie Hammell has shown this year this year that he is either injured or on his last legs so I think his times up as much as he is one of the best players I've ever seen at Fir Park.

 

Lasley seems to put in a great performance every time I think he's finished. Maybe one more year for him. In terms of other departures, id like to see us getting shot of Joe Chalmers and Wes Fletcher. Neither has impressed at any stage. Josh Law still has more to offer, he had a great spell before christmas. Craig Samson should be kept on as Ripley will leave. Moore, Thomas and Mackin will be big players next season. I expect Allan Campbell, Brett Long, Luke Watt and Jack McMillan will break through also.

[Joeboy]

McManus is a weird one, I've been critical of him all season and don't think he has been the player we thought we had signed, but we do need experience in our backline. I don't mind the idea of one of Hall/Laing/Kennedy playing, but not the idea of two of them playing at the one time. As much as I think McManus has been totally lacklustre this season, I am left asking myself if we could get a better replacement. I know that sounds incredibly strange. I think the discussion is all hypothetical right enough, as he is a shoe in to get a new deal anyway!

 

As for Lasley and Hammell, I'd give both new one year deals, with focus on coaching. Lasley has proven he can still be very effective when used correctly (see the last couple of games as a key example of this) and despite Hammell's injury record of late and him not being as young as he once was, we have proved time and time again to be a far worse team with anyone else at left back and even still I'd struggle to name you many left backs from league I would take ahead of him.

[Joeboy]

Pearo is under contract next season anyway.

[Desp]

Thoroughly disappointed Joeboy never went on one of his textbook McManus rants.

 

I was hoping that reading material would have seen me through my lunch hour.

[Joeboy]

He's not what you expect from a three times league winner, who has played in the last sixteen of the Champions League twice, earned twenty six Scotland caps and was once subject of a seven figure transfer fee! I hope that recurring line will help you through your afternoon break, Desp!

[Desp]

Afternoon break??

 

Some of us have real jobs here...

[ropy]

Could Hammell and Lasley get 6 month deals in a hedging our bets kind of way.

[Haggischomper]

Doubt either would accept and doubt we would insult seasoned campaigners that way

[ropy]

Full of insults me, combine it with coaching roles

[East Stand Well Boy]

Wonder when Ross McCormack will be back, 4 or 5 years?

[Haggischomper]

Full of insults me, combine it with coaching roles

That's not what I mean. Put yourself in there shoes though - you've given your all for the club, you're coming to the end of your career, you know the next contract will likely be your last and the club only offer you a deal to the winter break - if it was me, I'd tell them to shove it.

 

Personally, I'd move on from Las, Hammel AND McManus. We need to get younger and we need to move on from that dressing room clique. Club needs to see what we have in the pipeline and these guys are kinda blocking progress for some of our youth. Not that I'm convinced Chalmers and Leitch are potential successors, mind.

[milo]

That's not what I mean. Put yourself in there shoes though - you've given your all for the club, you're coming to the end of your career, you know the next contract will likely be your last and the club only offer you a deal to the winter break - if it was me, I'd tell them to shove it.

 

Personally, I'd move on from Las, Hammel AND McManus. We need to get younger and we need to move on from that dressing room clique. Club needs to see what we have in the pipeline and these guys are kinda blocking progress for some of our youth. Not that I'm convinced Chalmers and Leitch are potential successors, mind.

I hear you. For what it's worth is offer Lasley and Hammell 1 year extensions but understudies would need to be sought.

 

He's been a bit up and down but I'd like to keep McDonald.

 

I'd get shot of McManus in a heart beat as another poster posted there that he is easily the most disappointing signing, considering his supposed pedigree, I can remember us making. We would need some experience at centre half though.

[StipeIsGod]

Get McManus to fuck. Disappointing as all hell. Gutted because I thought he would turn out to be a tremendous capture for us.

[superward]

I might be different from most but McManus hasn't been hugely disappointing for me. But it's about expectations I suppose.

 

I didn't expect the youngster who came on to the scene at Celtic and quickly got the captaincy and Scotland caps. I expected to get the player who hadn't really played a full season since 2010 and had picked up a fair few injuries. I also have a lot of Celtic supporting mates who never really rated him and when he moved were not hugely fussed. The recurring comment was his positioning and decisions could be poor but a lot of fans liked him for the big crunching tackles.

 

So, for me, he does enough well at our level (mid table Premiership in my eyes) and is respected enough in the club to get a deal.

 

If, however, we can get an experienced enough left sided centre back who is better then I would be up for changing things.

[steelboy]

McManus has been better this season and since he joined he has started near enough every game. Lasley and Hammell should be given another year as well.

 

I read a comment about the quality of the players we have brought in recently versus the guys some fans want to release. We've made big mistakes in the transfer market recently but across the whole league it seems to be harder and harder to bring decent players in, Aberdeen have clearly decided to bring in guys already proven in the league rather than risk going further afield and Hearts seem to be back to their old policy of sign as many foreign players as possible and hope for the best. Every other club is struggling to bring in players of the required standard.

 

We obviously need some fresh blood to improve the squad but we will still be looking for a goalie, right back, a couple of midfielders and a striker.

[Joeboy]

I guess it all depends on what you are judging McManus on.

 

I have been pretty much his biggest critic since he joined, but I am probably judging him as a multiple league winning ex Scotland captain and not as a bog standard centre half.

 

I had little complaints in his first season, but he was playing with a higher calibre of centre half in Hutchy and on the face of it, despite finishing second we were still conceding an average greater than 1.5 goals a game.

 

His mistakes or lapses are probably ones I'd be more forgiving if a Fraser Kerr or Kieran Kennedy made them, but from his pedigree we should expect more. Another thing that goes against him is that I expected young/inexperienced centre backs to progress as a result of playing beside him. Hall looks like he is on the right track now, but other than him, can you really say Cummins, Kerr, O'Brien, Laing or Kennedy have looked noticeably better with his influence?

 

Is Stephen McManus the player we expected him to be? Definitely not.

Is Stephen McManus as good a player as we can expect to get in his position? Sadly, probably.

[one m in motherwell]

I can see Hammell being offered another deal, but Lasley will probably step back into the coaching side. McManus, to my mind, should definitely stay for another season purely because we don't have anyone who looks capable of stepping up. For all his frailties he has been beneficial in terms of Hall's development, and I don't think we're ready to pair the latter with Kennedy or a.n.other. Needless to say, a centre back and a right back is probably a must this Summer.

 

Other than that I don't really disagree with the shopping list Steelboy mentioned. Gomis will be away so the need for midfield cover remains (especially if Lasley goes), and given that Clarkson, Faddy and probably Fletcher will be away too, we need some new blood up front.

 

Again, it's probably more a case of getting rid as much as it is bringing the right folk in this year.

[capt_oats]

I had little complaints in his first season, but he was playing with a higher calibre of centre half in Hutchy and on the face of it, despite finishing second we were still conceding an average greater than 1.5 goals a game.

 

Agree with everything in that post above Joe, however just to chuck this in there for consideration as well on the point about the goals per game conceded I suppose it's worth factoring in the 'keepers he's been playing in front of: Hollis, Twardzik, Nielsen, Long and Ripley. At the moment in the league we're 1.51 goals conceded. In Randolph's last season we were 1.15 1.34.

 

15/16 - 1.51 gcpg (GA - 44* as at 29 games)

14/15 - 1.65 gcpg (GA - 63)

13/14 - 1.57 gcpg (GA - 60)

12/13 - 1.34 gcpg (GA - 51)

11/12 - 1.15 gcpg (GA - 44)

10/11 - 1.47 gcpg (GA - 56)

 

For me the irritation with McManus is certainly the casual mistakes and the long diagonals however as I said in the earlier post (and I concede it's a bit lazy) I do wonder realistically who we'd be able to bring in and whether they'd be "better".

 

Edit to add: My mistake, Randolph's last season was the 12/13 season so 1.34.

[Ya Bezzer!]

 

Agree with everything in that post above Joe, however just to chuck this in there for consideration as well on the point about the goals per game conceded I suppose it's worth factoring in the 'keepers he's been playing in front of: Hollis, Twardzik, Nielsen, Long and Ripley. At the moment in the league we're 1.51 goals conceded. In Randolph's last season we were 1.15.

 

15/16 - 1.51 gcpg (GA - 44* as at 29 games)

14/15 - 1.65 gcpg (GA - 63)

13/14 - 1.57 gcpg (GA - 60)

12/13 - 1.34 gcpg (GA - 51)

11/12 - 1.15 gcpg (GA - 44)

10/11 - 1.47 gcpg (GA - 56)

 

For me the irritation with McManus is certainly the casual mistakes and the long diagonals however as I said in the earlier post (and I concede it's a bit lazy) I do wonder realistically who we'd be able to bring in and whether they'd be "better".

 

You might also say the Randolph season was the Craig Brown season when we are talking about goals conceded!

 

We had the same sort of arguments about Stephen Craigan when he was turning out for us. I think Craigan was a much better Motherwell player than McManus is but as you say who do people expect to bring in and be much better than McManus?

 

An Andrew Davies? A Stuart Findlay? A Tam Scobbie? A Danny Seaborne? That's the level of player we'd be attracting.

 

I thought McManus had a so so first season, a terrible second season and has been reasonably consistent this term.

 

When I look at the team and think "How can this team be strengthened" I'm looking at goalkeeper (Ripley has been our best goalkeeper since Randolph but he is still inexperienced and of course on loan), right back (perhaps Laing can fix that problem) and maybe a wide player and central midfielder as competition and back up. I'm not really looking at the centre backs right now.