underboyleheating Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 ...(and 3 of them from Kilmarnock). Craig Slater (Kilmarnock) 21 Mark O'Hara (Kilmarnock) 19 Greg Kiltie (Kilmarnock) 18 Kilmarnock, leading the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Watt and Thomas signed contracts until 2018 recently so I cant see them gling anywhere. I assume you are talking about Cadden and McLean? I was under the impression that they were under contract as well though wasn't sure of the length of the deal. Also, that was MacLean injured yesterday with a fractured collarbone. Given he missed the start of the season with an injury that's pretty unfortunate. Either way their frustration is understandable, especially if they've been sold on deals on the basis of them getting first team involvement. Publicly the club have been going on about young players getting their chance and that being our blueprint/strategy then they go and pad the squad out in the manner they have done, you've even had McGhee remark in recent press conferences about the size of the squad. If the younger guys are a bit disillusioned it's not that difficult to see why. Doesn't necessarily mean looking to move on is the right solution though and it's up to the management and coaching staff to sort that out. There's a lot to be said for the coaching staff setting higher standards, the u20s involvement in the first team shouldn't be tokenist or just getting games on the basis of them being "youth". It's a two way street though, as much as it's fair enough to hear Craigan talk about consistency and maintaining a level of performance to justify the step up equally you have to look at the performance levels of those who actually have the first team jerseys, you've got players in the first XI who have been inconsistent at best and at worst have cost us goals this season yet have been almost ever present. That's where it becomes a question of perspective, if you feel that you're performing better than the guy in front of you but not getting a shot to prove yourself then rightly or wrongly you're going to start questioning your situation. Taking this season alone Dom Thomas has 11 first team appearances 3 starts and 8 sub, Cadden has 2 sub appearances and Watt has one sub appearance in the cup. I suppose the question is what their expectations are and how realistic they are given we're sitting 11th in the league at the moment. McGhee mentioned in that fairly lengthy interview a couple of weeks back about the possibility of a couple of the u20s going out on loan in January to give them first team games so that they're ready for first team consideration next season I'd be interested to see if that's a route we go down. I was at a loose end yesterday so went along to the 20s game and based on that both Thomas and Watt (even though he was playing centre half) both looked a significant level above development league football which I suppose you'd hope would be the case given their age and the fact both have first team experience behind them. Cadden had a few notable moments where he was stopped by cynical challenges and MacLean obviously scored a fine free kick. There's definitely a place for them in the squad but I think that's probably dependent on a lot of Baraclough's mistakes being fixed first not to mention us finding a bit of stability in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Admittedly I can only watch the highlights., but most of the names mentioned here have been inconsistent even at the U20s level, never mind stepping up. I really want to see one or two break through as well, but the added challenge is the fact that number one priority over the next few weeks is to establish a league position nearer the middle of the table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCusker Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 iv said it before, the reserve league should be brought back as it would develop the youngsters rather than hinder them. they would be playing against better oppostion than they do currently. ive been to a fair few u20's games (im going tonight as its the well v accies derby at NDP) and most of the players wont make it at the top level as they arent good enough. only thomas and watt stand out for us at u20 level imo, the others just dont jump out as being anywhere near ready for first team footy (although neither do some of our first team) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 If these guys (Thomas etc) aren't gonna get a gig here just now. I want to see them play, so a loan to a Championship Division 1 team would be ok for them in my eyes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Agree that some first team competitive football in a lower division is a much better way to develop them than playing 16 and 17 year old opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Having said that. I don't really agree that Thomas shouldn't/can't play in our first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's where it gets more complicated. Is it better for someone like Thomas to get 15 or 20 lower division first team starts, or better for him to get a dozen sub appearances in our team? I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's where it gets more complicated. Is it better for someone like Thomas to get 15 or 20 lower division first team starts, or better for him to get a dozen sub appearances in our team? I'm not sure. I think Mark McGhee is right. Dom Thomas seems to be hitting a bit of a plateau in his development now. To move up to the next level he needs to bulk up / toughen up (which he himself admits) and to improve his final ball. Mark McGhee and his lieutenants know the lad far better than we do and you have to trust their judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's where it gets more complicated. Is it better for someone like Thomas to get 15 or 20 lower division first team starts, or better for him to get a dozen sub appearances in our team? I'm not sure. Games all day long, He's getting nowhere with his wee cameo appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Despite the ongoing chat in the Dundee thread I thought it would probably be better to drop this in here. It looks like we're actively trying to extend Grimshaw's deal until the end of the season. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14145378.Motherwell_out_to_extend_Manchester_United_starlet_s_stay_at_Fir_Park/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LankyMac Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Despite the ongoing chat in the Dundee thread I thought it would probably be better to drop this in here. It looks like we're actively trying to extend Grimshaw's deal until the end of the season. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14145378.Motherwell_out_to_extend_Manchester_United_starlet_s_stay_at_Fir_Park/ Sounds good to me. He is getting progressively better and isn't afraid to get stuck in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Good news. I don't think the club will have any problem extending any of our lown players if they so wish, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Grimshaw does seem to be improving. Wasn't sure about him at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Grimshaw's improved a lot over recent weeks, seems to suit the role he's currently playing in. Would be happy to keep him and Ripley to the end of the season. Can't see us doing much in January mind you, we have a fair amount of deadwood we'd have to move on first. Twardzik/Samson(pick one) Craig Reid Jake Taylor Louis Laing Jack Leitch Wes Fletcher/Theo Robinson/David Clarkson(could punt at least 2 of them) Could all move on and very few would notice/care. Easier said than done right enough but until we shift some of them on(if possible) then I can't see McGhee having much room to manoeuvre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 McGhee seems to have a plan to turn Laing into a midfielder, so not sure he'll be going anywhere. I'd be holding on to Fletcher too. If Moult continues his form, our business plan should be to move him on at the end of the season and bring in someone like Fletcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Agree that it's unlikely Laing will be going anywhere, not least because he's only what? 5 months into a two year deal and whilst at 22 he's by no means a youngster there's still plenty time for him to develop whether it's as a centre half or as weeyin says as a holding midfielder. The folk you'd think we'd be looking to move are those coming to the end of their contracts who aren't getting any sort of minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Twardzik, Reid, Robinson, Clarkson, Leitch, Moore. If we get those six off the books, we won't be any worse off. It would also give us a bit of cash to bring in a couple of good additions. Probably a centre half and midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 If that happened we would be left with 2 first choice strikers, 1 injury prone striker and 1 youth in Mackin who has just had a sub appearance off the bench..... I would rather keep Clarkson or Robinson for some cover given we play 2 up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Twardzik, Reid, Robinson, Clarkson, Leitch, Moore. If we get those six off the books, we won't be any worse off. It would also give us a bit of cash to bring in a couple of good additions. Probably a centre half and midfielder. Even though he's on loan you can probably add Taylor to that list as well. I'd imagine we'd be paying at least part, if not all, of his wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Twardzik, Reid, Robinson, Clarkson, Leitch, Moore. If we get those six off the books, we won't be any worse off. It would also give us a bit of cash to bring in a couple of good additions. Probably a centre half and midfielder. Pretty much my thoughts tho would probably need to keep one of the strikers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 If that happened we would be left with 2 first choice strikers, 1 injury prone striker and 1 youth in Mackin who has just had a sub appearance off the bench..... I would rather keep Clarkson or Robinson for some cover given we play 2 up top. Yes, I'd agree with that. Presumably Taylor too will be returning down south. We don't want to be left too light up front as injuries and suspensions kick in. So far, Wes Fletcher has proved to be very injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingu Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Craig Reid is with St Mirren guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Aye, on loan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Aye, on loan.It was an emergency loan until January as well. http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2015/10/30/craig-reid-joins-st-mirren-on-loan/ Moore's loan to Ayr was only until January too. 4th January it says here http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2015/07/30/craig-moore-joins-ayr-utd-on-loan/ So unless those deals are extended they'll be back at the club in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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