Issues With Stewarding On Tuesday Night

[Yabba's Turd]

 

Fuck knows how we got the name the Bovril two?

 

 

Either on WTFC.net or through One Step Beyond if I recall correctly.

[Wellfan1984]

but we can't let a political class dictate what is right or wrong

Eh. So what is the next law you will be fighting to repel, or the one after that. Although Political Class do not tell you what is right and wrong, they along with the Justice Sector set the rules.

 

But viva la revolution, Anarchy, you live the dream mate.

 

that's verging on the totalitarian groups like al Quieda and ISIS.

 

No, its called civilisation.

[steelboy]

Eh. So what is the next law you will be fighting to repel, or the one after that. Although Political Class do not tell you what is right and wrong, they along with the Justice Sector set the rules.

 

 

 

There are a lot of things wrong with our current political system.

 

The Football Bill comes from the same kind of prejudice that allows Police Scotland to illegally stop and search children, be ordered to stop doing it by parliament then continue to illegally do it anyway. There is a lack of accountability in Scotland that lets a conservative minded minority dictate to the majority.

[sbcmfc]

Either on WTFC.net or through One Step Beyond if I recall correctly.

 

Yeah, was a tongue in cheek reference to Hugh Keevins match report that said we skelped the linesman with a pie.

[sbcmfc]

To be fair to the 'Well Bois.

 

This law means that you are allowed to be dealt with more harshly because you are a football fan.

 

I'm not a fan of the Green Brigade and think amongst many other dislikeable qualities they have a real victim mentality.

 

I also think the Bois or folk who attach themselves to the group do themselves no favours and plenty of them quite enjoy and thrive on the cat and mouse with police and stewards at games.

 

However, laws that treat football fans differently from music fans, rugby fans.... don't seem right in my eyes, and is all politically motivated.

 

I generally manage to behave at the football, but I know I'm glad this law wasn't around a few years earlier!

 

(I also think it entails the wider problem of how we are treated at the football! Particularly away from home! We are paying customers and are herded like cattle, treated with contempt and over charged for the privilege, that's a wider debate, but perhaps one that would get more empathy from the wider support)

[Haggischomper]

Awwwwwwww shit! Just woke up and found out I've wet the bed.

[superward]

Can't come back on content, boils it down to a self righteous comment about age...

 

Come back to me on the offensive behaviour at football act.

That answers that then.

 

Seriously though, no matter what age you are, a lot of your responses are coming across as very naive and not positioning your argument, when challenged, very well at all. Takes a lot away from some of the factual and well authored retorts you have actually had. Ultimately means your point is being taken less seriously.

[john_M_F_C]

That answers that then.

 

Seriously though, no matter what age you are, a lot of your responses are coming across as very naive and not positioning your argument, when challenged, very well at all. Takes a lot away from some of the factual and well authored retorts you have actually had. Ultimately means your point is being taken less seriously.

 

well, it didn't answer anything, did it?

 

Naive? because it's not the most popular answer? Good because they're of a similar opinion to yours?

 

It's a shame that most of the talk on here's been about our choice to jointly protest on a fan issue, with a similar fan group, not the issue itself. There's been pages worth about it, yet, there was next to nothing noted when we staged our own protest against Partick Thistle. I get that people are annoyed we'd work with the Green Brigade, but nobody even took notice when we tried to do it on our own.

 

It's maybe easy to suggest now, but, if our support wasn't happy about us working with outsiders, then perhaps it would be beneficial for us all, that we do get behind fan issues more, as a wider support?

[superward]

No, it didnt answer anything. That was the point.

 

No, naive because some of the reasons you give are at best, simplistic, and at worst just untrue.

 

 

I am neither here nor there on the bill to be perfectly honest. So, standing on the neutral ground it is easy to take the emotion out of reading and responses and see how it is coming across.

 

Your argument hasnt moved me anymore towards your cause though. As someone else earlier in the thread said to get the support behind you you need to convince us all. By looking on here that does not seem to be happening and calling people 'bed wetters' ain't going to help. (an example of the bad positioning I referenced)

[dennyc]

As a well intended suggestion -

 

If you want to effect change, first get your own fans and Club on board, then other fans and other football clubs, then the media, then the Football authorities and then (dare I say it) the Police. Only then will the politicians listen when you approach them. It will be a long, frustrating journey but worth it in the end.

 

You could start by asking fans to sign a petition at our home games. Like minded fans of other teams could do the same. I'm sure most would be happy to support a carefully worded statement. Gather enough names and present that to MFC to open discussions and secure their support. And so on and so on up the line. If you have already tried petitioning at Home games, then I must have missed it.

 

The action you are taking at present only alienates those whose support you require to be successful. It also gives the Media a chance to distort your intentions and provides Politicians with validation for the Bill.

[Stu]

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the protest, if you can't see the problem of alienating a large section of your fellow Motherwell fans, a number of whom help to contribute to your group financially, whilst sympathising with a horde of people who have, at best, a sketchy reputation based on political leanings and vandalism of Fir Park, then it really isn't worth continuing this discussion.

[Spiderpig]

i see Hearts are clamping down on their own so called "young team"

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34641934

[Shaka]

i see Hearts are clamping down on their own so called "young team"

 

[url="http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/

34641934"

They never stole a drum,they were forced to take it to communicate to each other cause the heavy handed polis presence was stopping them using their phones. The bus driver is talking pish,he deliberately bumped into 14 members of the young team trying to noise them up and get them in trouble and as for the stewards cap? He was a jumped up fanny in a yellow jaiket goading the young team for a reaction. The flare is just bringing some atmosphere!

 

Fucking sick of the heavy handed policing of games. The young team go to support their team and get targeted for being wee boys. I hope the polis and stewards feel like real men now,picking on lads who are continually oppressed

[numpty]

Never entirely sure what sort of 'atmosphere' a flare is meant to create. Is it the fun of your boat sinking, the joy of being stuck on a mountain with a broken leg, or the elation of trying to throw off a heat-seeking missile that's about to blow you out the sky?

[Guest]

 

 

"Our inbox at Tynecastle is filled with emails from Hearts supporters asking us to take action and we want to assure them that we will not rest until we have satisfactorily addressed this problem."

Hearts fans: Grasses.

[mjw]

Fortunately we play them soon,so we'll be able to show solidarity with our oppressed salt n sauce brothers.

[BigWeegieDosser]

Never entirely sure what sort of 'atmosphere' a flare is meant to create. Is it the fun of your boat sinking, the joy of being stuck on a mountain with a broken leg, or the elation of trying to throw off a heat-seeking missile that's about to blow you out the sky?

How about the PA blasting out the Ride of the Valkyries, wee CS gas display, couple of flashbang grenades, smoke bombs ?

It's all about atmosphere, then we can all reminisce years later " You weren't there, man..."

[Wellfan1984]

or the elation of trying to throw off a heat-seeking missile that's about to blow you out the sky?

Tbf I've paid to watch a demonstration of that and it was very impressive.

[BigWeegieDosser]

'Mon the Missiles!

[Dee]

Aberdeen supporters displayed a Heavy Hands Empty Stands banner at the weekend.

'Well fans not allowed drum or flags in to Pittodrie and home fans not allowed megaphone.

[BigWeegieDosser]

If you got hit on the head repeatedly with a drum, could you end up with a mild percussion?

[Bigeeze]

If you got hit on the head repeatedly with a drum, could you end up with a mild percussion?

Beat it with this patter. Or you'll some stick from folks on here lol

[BigWeegieDosser]

Beat it with this patter. Or you'll some stick from folks on here lol

Just banging the drum for those of us who don't see confrontation and civil liberty outrage as an integral part of our matchday experience.

Question of perspective, I suppose

[Well-Made]

From the Herald, this is just going to keep rumbling on.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13901724.Spiers_on_Sport__Rangers_and_Celtic_fans_deserve_chance_to_prove_that_legislation_is_the_problem/

 

 

 

Spiers on Sport: Rangers and Celtic fans deserve chance to prove that legislation is the problem

2:12pm Wednesday 28th October 2015

By Spiers on Sport

Two recent incidents in Scottish football have brought back into focus the accursed “hate-crime” legislation which many fans are now sick and tired of.

Last Sunday at St Mirren a group of Rangers fans had a banner removed by police which was said to contain “Loyalist symbolism”.

You had to look hard at that banner to determine the fuss. It showed images of a Union flag and a Scottish Saltire, the latter appearing to have a Red Hand of Ulster imposed on it.

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The police were said to have removed the flag for safety-reasons, and reportedly handed it back to its owners at the end of the game.

As a police officer walked away with the confiscated item, some St Mirren fans stood and applauded their action.

Meanwhile at Celtic Park the Green Brigade kept up their own campaign against the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, which has now been in existence for three erratic years.

The Green Brigade have a reputation for colourful and lurid banners and, not for a first time, they didn’t miss their target. “Police State Brought To You By The SNP” proclaimed the banner, with an image of a policeman spying on supporters.

This is where we are: football fans in Scotland feeling put-upon and even harassed over their alleged “offensive expression”, with some of that expression appearing to be political in content.

It probably serves us well to recall, because it is long forgotten now, why this benighted football Act is upon us in the first place.

For years the antics of sections of Old Firm fans was a national embarrassment. Rangers, in particular, had a horrendous problem on their hands, a legacy of decades of bigotry at the club. Nor were some Celtic supporters innocent with their tub-thumping about the IRA.

It is well to remember that, prior to the Scottish government wading in, both Rangers and Celtic undertook their own campaigns to try to rid their clubs of bigoted or offensive content.

Down the years Rangers attempted two separate campaigns – “Bigger than Bigotry” and “Pride Over Prejudice” – to try to re-educate sections of their support. Or, at least, curb their singing.

Celtic also had “Bhoys Against Bigotry” as well as a campaign to rid their stadium of all political messaging or rhetoric.

So when people get off about this SNP government poking its nose into our so-called civil liberties, it was, in fact, Rangers and Celtic themselves who set the ball rolling. The clubs tried – and largely failed – their own in-house policing.

The old Rangers problem of bigoted chanting has, to my mind, been greatly improved over the years. I don’t doubt there are dodgy songs the club’s fans would still love to sing, but they at least have the decency to shelve them.

You cannot kick Rangers endlessly, without acknowledging the progress made. Ibrox as a stadium is a far healthier place today compared to 10 years ago, when the place rocked to The Billy Boys.

But what about the other stuff? On Sunday in Paisley I heard Rangers fans singing some time-honoured ditties about the UDA, the IRA and Bobby Sands. It was hardly persistent or ear-splitting, but you heard it nonetheless.

Celtic are visiting Tynecastle this week, and for some reason this is a favoured venue for their own renditions of IRA chants. It is claimed that certain pockets of Celtic supporters, were it not deemed politically incorrect, would like nothing better than a good old IRA song-fest.

For decent fans of Rangers and Celtic, these are all moments for rolling your eyes and placing hands over the ears.

But a major anxiety remains – how does a society outlaw and criminalise “offensive expression”? Indeed, should it?

The problem with the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, and with the police and our courts, is that in this context they are at the mercy of interpretation.

What is offensive, and what is not? I think most people know rank prejudice when they hear it – racism, anti-semitism, bigotry. But political expression? The UDA, IRA, Bobby Sands and the like?

Yes, to most of us this remains what Gerry McNee, the sports columnist, once called “all the Irish tosh”. It can be wearying and tedious to listen to. But is it worthy of arrest and criminal charges?

I’m leaving aside here, for once, the infantile point-scoring on either side of Glasgow. If you are bored, just spend half an hour on Twitter, to find Rangers and Celtic fans ardently spying on one another and shouting ‘J’Accuse’ in mock outrage.

This is a supporters’ game. It is never-ending. But the more serious point is that fans feel corralled and spied-on and harassed by Police Scotland over chants that potentially attract a top-heavy punishment.

I’m happy to confess my own gig in all this. Along with some others, I’m often accused of having helped to bring heavy-handed legislation onto our statute book in the first place. There is a grain of truth in that.

And my position has not changed. If supporters cannot behave decently, and keep hollering bigotry, and it cannot be fixed, then I say, yes, let’s have legislation to help clean ourselves up.

If both Rangers FC and Celtic FC have seen fit to eject fans for rank behaviour, then why cannot central government also have a means to ban or deter supporters?

But the issue remains this: legislation that is fair, appropriate and workable. Right now, and for the past three years, Scotland does not seem to have had that.

[Busta Nut]

FAC forum for that pish