Issues With Stewarding On Tuesday Night

[David]

Just thought I'd post this in case anyone isn't on Facebook or hasn't "liked" the relevant pages;

 

Following the disgusting scenes and gross overreaction by Police Scotland and stewards at Tuesday night's League Cup tie between Greenock Morton and Motherwell we feel the time is right for a renewed and intensified push of our campaign.

We cannot stand back and allow some of the youngest members of the Motherwell support and indeed our society be targeted and criminalised in a way that could impact their lives in the future.

Last nights incident was started by the extremely heavy handed and bullish behaviour of those stewarding that area of the stadium. It has to be noted these are the very same personnel who have been the catalyst for similar incidents time and time again in the away section at St Mirren Park.

The stewarding team in question took exception to a teenage Motherwell fan celebrating a last minute equaliser and decided the best course of action was through brute force alone.

Questions must be asked if the same procedure would have been followed if it was another demographic of our support. What followed was an over reaction of the highest order. A baton charging police response to the wider Motherwell crowd who were only asking for explanations as to why such actions were taken.Questions must also be asked of the severe nature of the police response and indeed the size and cost of the response where elsewhere the failure of a Police Scotland response has unfortunately been fatal.

Since the creation of this campaign, we have witnessed similar incidents and heard similar stories from all over the UK. There seems to be a trend developing of politicised and statistical policing FOCUS'ing on young football fans and this is a worrying trend on a number of fronts. The systemic focus and continued drive to make football related arrests alongside the sensationalist headlines is in order to justify budgets. It is also constantly falling on the heads of a younger demographic, the easiest section of society to demonise in order to excuse the behaviour shown towards them.

In what other spectator sport, or indeed society, would you see such tactics being deployed to paying customers? Nowhere in the entertainment industry would such behaviour towards fans be excusable.

In Scotland many supporters are being priced out of attending. As an example, someone under the age of 18 on the minimum apprentice wage would have had to work for over 3 and a half hours to pay to get into the League Cup tie last night. 3 and half hours of hard work to be targeted, scrutinised and looked upon as a criminal! It is no surprise as to why crowds are dwindling across the board.

It is due to the reasons stated above we ask all Motherwell fans to support and help draw attention to the problems faced. We would like to highlight the circumstances which led to the incidents last night in the hope that they will not be repeated again.

We plan to start this in 2 stages during at the next match at Fir Park on Saturday 26th September against Partick Thistle.

In the first-half of the match we plan to tape off the end section of the East Stand, closest to the South Stand, and display an array off banners highlighting the issue for the entire 45 minutes. No singing, no cheering and no-body in that end section. This is to highlight the difference and what we think will happen if the current attitudes and tactics are continued to be deployed on football fans.

For the second-half we encourage as many supportive fans as possible to join us at the end section in preparation for a loud vibrant and enjoyable atmosphere. This will highlight that despite Heavy Handed tactics, targeted statistical and politicised stewarding and policing we will continue to stand up and be counted.

Heavy Hands Empty Stands!

 

 

Posted by the Heavy Hands - Empty Stands Facebook account.

[Busta Nut]

I want to know what happened. The steward wadded in..... then what?

 

I was there and couldn't see. someone tell em.

[Well Well]

I was going to write a whole load on this but will keep my comments to myself. I don't agree with a lot of what is said above as I have been going to football for 40 years and never had the need to be jailed or ejected from any stadia due to my own or people I have gone with behaviour. I am not the perfect fan as no doubt some sarcastic wit will comment on afterwards but protests get you nowhere, dialogue does. So if you want to make a difference sit down and talk with the club, authorities and work something out. You done it before with the standing issue and came to a compromise you can do it again with the wider issue of stewarding. We must also look at ourselves and if we continue to run onto pitches, fight with each other and throw flares we will not get the type of response we want from the authorities. Time for cool heads and dialogue. Tin hat on for the outraged responses

[Easy Target]

Maybe if some of our support didn't intentionally goad police and stewards at away games we wouldn't be in situations like this.

[Richie]

To be honest, at the game the Police appeared to be wading in for no apparent reason.

We had no idea from about 15 rows back that anything was happening.

Maybes a few fans were in the wrong, I don't know, but the response was completely disproportionate.

I have observed similar from a (short) distance before un Paisley etc.

The ironic thing is, when there is disorder -ripping up seats, being hit with coins etc - they do nothing and adopt a 'passive policing' approach.

[Busta Nut]

The additonal officers and the stoppage of the game was a joke, Police in the ground had stopped any incident within a minute of it happening, I wanna know what happened once the steward tried to eject the young guy, and why the steward was lead away by his colleagues.

[Well Well]

The additonal officers and the stoppage of the game was a joke, Police in the ground had stopped any incident within a minute of it happening, I wanna know what happened once the steward tried to eject the young guy, and why the steward was lead away by his colleagues.

additional officers is pretty easy to explain..assistance call no doubt went out and every available officer will answer it...as can be seen by the amount of cars and vans seen in one video that arrived. Its clear from the video that the additional cops were not at the game but arrived due to the assistance shout and being in the city there will be a lot more available to answer it. Maybe need to discuss the training of stewards by the companies involved as they seem to just give a jacket to anyone who is willing to accept £20 and it always seems to cause issues by over eager stewards acting without thinking. Could say the same for the idiot that started it all by running onto the pitch. I would imagine the original steward was led away for his own safety, remove the cause and hopefully everyone would calm down.

[Ya Bezzer!]

If what I've heard is true then the club and the SPFL need to sit down with the police and stewards and have a serious discussion. It's not that long ago we had police horses on the pitch at Fir Park for no reason whatsoever and I've personally witnessed some deplorable policing and crowd control at NDP in recent times.

[Busta Nut]

additional officers is pretty easy to explain..assistance call no doubt went out and every available officer will answer it...as can be seen by the amount of cars and vans seen in one video that arrived. Its clear from the video that the additional cops were not at the game but arrived due to the assistance shout and being in the city there will be a lot more available to answer it. Maybe need to discuss the training of stewards by the companies involved as they seem to just give a jacket to anyone who is willing to accept £20 and it always seems to cause issues by over eager stewards acting without thinking. Could say the same for the idiot that started it all by running onto the pitch. I would imagine the original steward was led away for his own safety, remove the cause and hopefully everyone would calm down.

ok.... Can someone tell me what happened now?

 

Greenock is also not in the city

[David]

I wasn't there but it always baffles me that a group who often light flares, jump about with hoods up like they are mental etc get annoyed at extra scrutiny from police stewards. It's always going to happen.

 

The well bois dp a great job creating atmosphere but there's also absolute idiots in there as well which negate a lot of the great stuff.

 

I completely agree. Pay your money, sit down, wear your clothes in a sensible manner (if it's not raining, pack your hood away and refrain from keeping it up etc), clap and cheer in an acceptable manner and you'll be fine.

 

[jk2205]

I wasn't there but it always baffles me that a group who often light flares, jump about with hoods up like they are mental etc get annoyed at extra scrutiny from police stewards. It's always going to happen.

 

The well bois dp a great job creating atmosphere but there's also absolute idiots in there as well which negate a lot of the great stuff.

Like most clubs we have our percentage of dafties in our support.

 

Good turnout from them on Tuesday night.

[Desp]

I wasn't there but it always baffles me that a group who often light flares, jump about with hoods up like they are mental etc get annoyed at extra scrutiny from police stewards. It's always going to happen.

 

The well bois dp a great job creating atmosphere but there's also absolute idiots in there as well which negate a lot of the great stuff.

 

This is my take on it as well. The Bois that I know of, those in the early to mid-20's, do an incredible job at creating atmosphere and I have never seen any of those lads step out of line, be it at a home or away game.

 

The problem that I see is, the wee kids that associate themselves with them. Those who are anywhere between 13-18, who because they're young kids and no doubt have any sort of responsibilities in their lives, see themselves as invincible and think they can act how they like. They're also the first to cry about it when things go tits up (i.e Tuesday night).

 

As previously mentioned, dialogue will be important here. Not standing in a section for 45 minutes will achieve hee-haw IMO. Self-policing will also need to come into play. Where possible, if any of the older lads see any of the younger ones acting like wee fannies, then get them telt. It's doubtful they'll listen to any steward at the ground, but they'll certainly take note of a fellow fan doing it.

[superward]

Hold on...so the protest, with catalyst being an incident at an away game, is going to negatively affect us at a home game where the team and new interim manager need all the support they can in their first match?!

 

Would look more like a protest against Motherwell I think - who have had good dialogue with the bois have they not?

 

Does not seem to me it would send the right signals.

[Prestwickwell]

Hold on...so the protest, with catalyst being an incident at an away game, is going to negatively affect us at a home game where the team and new interim manager need all the support they can in their first match?!

 

Would look more like a protest against Motherwell I think - who have had good dialogue with the bois have they not?

 

Does not seem to me it would send the right signals.

Agree. I get the idea behind it but it's not the right game

[Spiderpig]

Go to the football,support your team, behave in a responsible and acceptable manner, enjoy when we win, moan on this forum when we don't, so no police or stewards involved..simples

[the traveller]

Stop demonising the Well Bois. They have a perfectly legitimate grievance about how football fans are treated in this country.if they can't protest at their own club's ground about what is happening and get their support where exactly then is the proper place to do so?

 

You seriously can not be suggesting that a fan running on the park on Tuesday necessitated over 25 police officers , 13 police vehicles and umpteen stewards to intervene. I don't recall seeing similar action taken at the Morton end where far greater number of fans ran on.

 

Of course it did't take long for the pr department of the biggest gang in town to get in on the act. So 2 police officers allegedly received minor injuries. Of course it's not said how they actually occurred. Funny that.

 

Could someone tell me what happened to the steward who clearly was escorted away by his colleagues and what caused that to occur?

 

And yet we here we are going on about our fans. If you were drunk, shouted, swore and threatened someone in the pub would you get a 2 year banning order for that? A fixed penalty fine would be more likely. Frankly I wish the Heavy Hands campaign all the best in trying to get football supporters treated in a civilised manner.

[David]

Go to the football,support your team, behave in a responsible and acceptable manner, enjoy when we win, moan on this forum when we don't, so no police or stewards involved..simples

 

It's obviously not quite that simple though, is it? What would you define as a "responsible and acceptable" manner? We've already seen a post that is critical of the wearing of hoods and fans who "jump about", so are we saying that jackets and other hooded clothing should be worn in a proper & sensible manner and that the act of jumping be frowned upon?

 

"Enjoy when we win" so long as your hood is safely tucked away and both feet are planted on the floor?

 

What about clapping and cheering? Is that acceptable so long as the conditions regarding hoods and jumping are met? After all, there have been circumstances where football fans have drawn the attention of stewards when they were clapping and cheering, hasn't there? Maybe if they'd been wearing no jacket at all and had been seated like nice little boys they'd have not caught the attention of the stewards?

 

Or maybe, just possibly, the club and the authorities need to take a serious look at the recruitment process that these "security" companies employ? You know how it's said that security guards are simply wannabe cops who didn't quite make the grade? A lot of these stewards seem like wannabe security guards who couldn't quite make the grade. Cunts who have yearned for the chance to lord it over someone (that someone is usually a lot younger, smaller and easier to bully most of the time) but haven't been able to find a way to live out their fucked up fantasy.

 

The number of times I've seen young lads pulled up for the exact same behaviour (usually "foul language" or some other nonsense) that older guys get away with is ridiculous.

 

So aye, rather than berating the teenagers who have the audacity to enjoy themselves whilst jumping, wearing hooded clothing and other heinous acts perhaps we should be looking at the grown men who suddenly believe they're allowed to bully kids because they're wearing an ill-fitting reflective jacket?

[Busta Nut]

What happened in between the point where the steward approached the crowd and the time where he was escorted away?

 

 

Also I do believe the police injured themselves when they piled on to try lift two 15 year old guys.

[Easy Target]

Aye it's all the fault of security companies!

[superward]

 

It's obviously not quite that simple though, is it? What would you define as a "responsible and acceptable" manner? We've already seen a post that is critical of the wearing of hoods and fans who "jump about", so are we saying that jackets and other hooded clothing should be worn in a proper & sensible manner and that the act of jumping be frowned upon?

 

"Enjoy when we win" so long as your hood is safely tucked away and both feet are planted on the floor?

 

What about clapping and cheering? Is that acceptable so long as the conditions regarding hoods and jumping are met? After all, there have been circumstances where football fans have drawn the attention of stewards when they were clapping and cheering, hasn't there? Maybe if they'd been wearing no jacket at all and had been seated like nice little boys they'd have not caught the attention of the stewards?

 

Or maybe, just possibly, the club and the authorities need to take a serious look at the recruitment process that these "security" companies employ? You know how it's said that security guards are simply wannabe cops who didn't quite make the grade? A lot of these stewards seem like wannabe security guards who couldn't quite make the grade. Cunts who have yearned for the chance to lord it over someone (that someone is usually a lot younger, smaller and easier to bully most of the time) but haven't been able to find a way to live out their fucked up fantasy.

 

The number of times I've seen young lads pulled up for the exact same behaviour (usually "foul language" or some other nonsense) that older guys get away with is ridiculous.

 

So aye, rather than berating the teenagers who have the audacity to enjoy themselves whilst jumping, wearing hooded clothing and other heinous acts perhaps we should be looking at the grown men who suddenly believe they're allowed to bully kids because they're wearing an ill-fitting reflective jacket?

 

I think it is a bit of both to be honest.

 

Most folk who get lifted/talked to have done something wrong (certainly when I have seen it happen...be it running on the park, standing where they shouldn't, being aggressive themselves, lighting a flare etc). But, absolutely stewarding can be over aggressive which is not acceptable.

 

Back to the actual point of the thread though. I don't think Saturday is the right time for the protest when it can negatively affect the team and club.

[David]

Back to the actual point of the thread though. I don't think Saturday is the right time for the protest when it can negatively affect the team and club.

 

When is the right time for the protest? In a few weeks when the issue has been all but forgotten about? What if we're stringing some wins together by then? It won't be ideal then as it may cause disruption just as we're getting it together.

 

The truth is that there's never an ideal time for a protest like this, but they have to act now whilst the issue is still relevant and in the media.

[Shaka]

It always seems to be the same group and its always the stewards fault. Even when wee drunk fannies are giving lip, jumping on the pitch, letting off flares and smoke bombs and acting up its always the stewards fault. Its tedious.

 

Im not saying they are free of fault, Ive seen stewards that are jumped up fannies with a high viz, but ive seen plenty normal guys who are just doing their job. Can folk really blame some for over reacting when our profile as fans in the media is pretty ropey (Damaging NDP Seats, Constant Flares + Smoke Bombs, Constant Trouble at St Midden park, Pitch Invasions to goad away fans all in the last couple of years alone)?

 

Some folk just need to learn to act like a fucking adult and also that they dont need to be steaming to watch a football match. Unfairly the young guys at the East Stand get tarred with the same brush when a lot are genuinely bringing a lot of good to the atmosphere at Fir Park, but thats what happens when irresponsible hangers on attatch themselves to a group

 

Heres a novel Idea. Lets have a trial where we all go to the game, sing and support the team , stay in the fucking stands, button your lips and leave the flares and smoke bombs at home and see how much trouble you get from heavy handed stewards? Id hazard a guess at minimal to none at all

[Stu]

It always seems to be the same group and its always the stewards fault. Even when wee drunk fannies are giving lip, jumping on the pitch, letting off flares and smoke bombs and acting up its always the stewards fault. Its tedious.

 

Im not saying they are free of fault, Ive seen stewards that are jumped up fannies with a high viz, but ive seen plenty normal guys who are just doing their job. Can folk really blame some for over reacting when our profile as fans in the media is pretty ropey (Damaging NDP Seats, Constant Flares + Smoke Bombs, Constant Trouble at St Midden park, Pitch Invasions to goad away fans all in the last couple of years alone)?

 

Some folk just need to learn to act like a fucking adult and also that they dont need to be steaming to watch a football match. Unfairly the young guys at the East Stand get tarred with the same brush when a lot are genuinely bringing a lot of good to the atmosphere at Fir Park, but thats what happens when irresponsible hangers on attatch themselves to a group

 

Heres a novel Idea. Lets have a trial where we all go to the game, sing and support the team , stay in the fucking stands, button your lips and leave the flares and smoke bombs at home and see how much trouble you get from heavy handed stewards? Id hazard a guess at minimal to none at all

 

Close the thread. There is nothing that can be added that makes any more sense than this.

[steelboy]

Where is everybody from that section going to sit first half?

[Spiderpig]

 

It's obviously not quite that simple though, is it? What would you define as a "responsible and acceptable" manner? We've already seen a post that is critical of the wearing of hoods and fans who "jump about", so are we saying that jackets and other hooded clothing should be worn in a proper & sensible manner and that the act of jumping be frowned upon?

 

"Enjoy when we win" so long as your hood is safely tucked away and both feet are planted on the floor?

 

What about clapping and cheering? Is that acceptable so long as the conditions regarding hoods and jumping are met? After all, there have been circumstances where football fans have drawn the attention of stewards when they were clapping and cheering, hasn't there? Maybe if they'd been wearing no jacket at all and had been seated like nice little boys they'd have not caught the attention of the stewards?

 

Or maybe, just possibly, the club and the authorities need to take a serious look at the recruitment process that these "security" companies employ? You know how it's said that security guards are simply wannabe cops who didn't quite make the grade? A lot of these stewards seem like wannabe security guards who couldn't quite make the grade. Cunts who have yearned for the chance to lord it over someone (that someone is usually a lot younger, smaller and easier to bully most of the time) but haven't been able to find a way to live out their fucked up fantasy.

 

The number of times I've seen young lads pulled up for the exact same behaviour (usually "foul language" or some other nonsense) that older guys get away with is ridiculous.

 

So aye, rather than berating the teenagers who have the audacity to enjoy themselves whilst jumping, wearing hooded clothing and other heinous acts perhaps we should be looking at the grown men who suddenly believe they're allowed to bully kids because they're wearing an ill-fitting reflective jacket?

I dont care what people wear to the footie that's their choice, all I am trying to Point out is you can be as passionate as you like supporting the team without attracting the attention of the stewards the vast majority of fans do, however it is always the minority few who insist on acting like disks and are determined to cause a problem.

I have no idea what started it all off on Tues night and yes some of the stewards who pull on a high viz jacket turn into arseholes but that's even more reason not to give them any excuse.