Our Attendances

[ONeils40yarder]

I'm not usually one to sit and talk about attendances and shite crowds etc, and didn't even notice how poorly the match today was attended until after the announcer read it out.

 

 

Sub-4000 crowds are incredibly worrying and it seems to becoming the norm at our place...we can all make a lot of excuses why the attendances are poor...cold weather, too expensive, Christmas round the corner, team playing shite for example...but all of theses things have been the case for years, so why is it now that our attendances are plummeting and what can we realistically do to get the lapsed fans back, even before we think about getting new fans engaged? Looking round about me, in what was a traditionally busy part of the East Stand, there were more empty seats than filled ones.

[weeyin]

I think the team playing shite is the main factor.

[Andy_P]

Not discounting the drop in home supports again you have to factor in away crowds also. A city club bringing less than 400 with them today being one example.

 

Despite their stock being as high as its been in years both Aberdeen and Hearts have come to Fir Park with less than 2000 fans when in years gone by they might have had another 1000 at least on top of that.

 

Our primary concern should be to build our own support but the numbers coming to Motherwell has to be taken into account also.

[ONeils40yarder]

Aye, of course the away support is a big factor, but there is no doubt that our home support is much less than it was even just 3 or 4 years ago

[Izett]

Something i've noticed, people seem to just disappear at the half time whistle and don't return.

[ONeils40yarder]

Something i've noticed, people seem to just disappear at the half time whistle and don't return

Our group sit in two separate areas for each half, which sort of sums up how shite our attendances are...sit wherever you like basically.

[MFCL84]

Pushing the times and dates of games around for years now to suit TV is finally hurting the game more than the TV money helps. Football is a 3pm Saturday habit. When it is a habit it doesn't matter whether the team is playing badly or not, you turn up on the Saturday. That and the fixture lists where there can be only a single home game in a month followed by 3 homes games the next month is just plain stupid. How do you budget for that?

[Shire Greats]

I think the team playing shite is the main factor.

I think the main factor is more to do with the saturation coverage on TV .Granted its good to see good teams ,occasionally, e.g Barcelona.,but you can turn on the TV and watch any old dross 7 nights a week,if you wanted.

[Kmcalpin]

No cause to crow at all but Inverness and Hamilton both attracted sub 3,000 crowds yesterday, as did Killie the week before. Christmas is acoming - its that time of year for shopping, nights out on the lash and monumental hangovers.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Attendances always drop in the run up to Christmas, which is one reason I'd rather have a winter shut down in December than January. You could re-start the season with Boxing day games, but anyway....

 

Yes, our attendances have gone into steep decline in the last 2 or 3 seasons. Our European and Cup failures, I think got many thinking "what exactly is the point?" Even successful seasons have lost a lot of their appeal due to our complete inability to compete at even modest levels in European football. The achievement of qualifying loses something if you are then pumped out by part timers from Iceland. The Scottish Cup, which is probably the bright spot in any season, when fans dare to dream, has been a complete and utter disaster. I'll bet there are supporters who saw the Albion Rovers match and haven't been back since.

 

In times past we've had a hardcore support of about 4,000 and that's remained the case for pretty much the whole time I've been coming to Fir Park, ie, the mid 80's. But now we are only attracting about 3,000 and that is quite a big drop from an already small support.

 

How do we get fans back? I don't know. Despite all the media coverage, I think football in general is not as popular as it once was. Young people in particular have other interests and just don't seem to bother with it. We had five young lads just start in my work and only one of them follows football. In my day, every boy had a team almost without exception. So I think that in general football is, maybe not a dying industry, but certainly one who's virtual monopoly has been smashed. This is inevitable going to impact small to medium sized clubs ability to maintain supporter bases.

 

As well as reasons particular to our club and more general reasons, I also think Scottish football has to an extent cut its own throat, with endless negative press and media moaning. The general impression of Scottish football is one of a poor product in continual crisis. Actually it's not as bad as 'we' make it out. Look at England, they have not let the falling standard there interrupt the hyperbole.

[sbcmfc]

I think there's social reasons too.

 

There are lots of things you can do on a Saturday afternoon, many of which do not put as much of a strain on your watch or wallet, and most of which can be done in more pleasant, comfortable surroundings.

 

There's also a change in family dynamics too. Men (who make up the bulk of the traditional support) are expected to be far more involved in the family. Working all week, then fucking off for most of Saturday isn't as easy to pull off as it was for my father, and certainly my grandfather.

 

If my wife gets a Saturday off, she's looking to do something as a family, and it's not sit freezing our arses off at fir park.

 

There's also the changes to people's working week.

 

For a lot of these reasons midweek games actually suit me better these days.

[Kmcalpin]

I think there's social reasons too.

 

There are lots of things you can do on a Saturday afternoon, many of which do not put as much of a strain on your watch or wallet, and most of which can be done in more pleasant, comfortable surroundings.

 

There's also a change in family dynamics too. Men (who make up the bulk of the traditional support) are expected to be far more involved in the family. Working all week, then fucking off for most of Saturday isn't as easy to pull off as it was for my father, and certainly my grandfather.

 

If my wife gets a Saturday off, she's looking to do something as a family, and it's not sit freezing our arses off at fir park.

 

There's also the changes to people's working week.

 

For a lot of these reasons midweek games actually suit me better these days.

A good post and you're right about changing social reasons. For that reason we have to attract more women to football as Hearts have successfully shown. Fans now want better facilities and not everyone wants to stand. Working patterns are changing too as you say.

 

Money - I'm not so sure that its as important a reason as some would have us believe. Yes ticket and travel costs are far too high and they do deter some fans from attending but for many others its a case of choice. £20 is a helluva lot for a football match but not for a few bets on the horses or a few drinks at the local or at home. Men are now spending far more on clothes than they used to do. The cost of golf club membership has rocketed. Concerts don't come cheap. All of these alternatives and more are competing with football tickets.

 

TV football too has had a huge impact. Years ago I would have read about the likes of big English teams like Bolton, Burnley or Arsenal in football publications and occasionally watched them on the box, but that was it. In recent years wall to wall coverage of the English Premiership excited young Scots fans who then saw that standard as being the norm and anything less was rubbish. In recent times that has begun to change, as English clubs have enjoyed less success in Europe and Scots fans, both young and old, have discovered that there are bigger and better clubs like Barcelona to support.

 

So yes, social reasons are very relevant as you point out. It shows that the club must work hard to show the local community that its not just about putting a decent team on the park.

 

Overall our attendances are low just now but Christmas is approaching and we've not been playing well. Our core support in recent years never really varies outwith 3,100 - 4,100. By way of comparison, I think a year ago we played Ross County at Fir Park and our home crowd was about 3,100.

[gaz7]

I read a lot on here saying 3pm on a saturday is when games should always be on. I have been going on and off for 30 years since my early teens and that was maybe the case all those years ago but definately not now. as someone said earlier family commitments take over for most at weekends now and i personally think friday nights are great for football. every boys club,amateur and junior team mostly play on a saturday so all those players and their families , friends go to their games.. i am quite sure that a lot of players who play for fun would love to go to more games but cant as they are playing. plus again as someone said the total fkup that was our european campaigns totally scunnered me, some of our managers and players during the last few seasons treated it like pre season friendlies when it meant the world to us fans. i definately cant get excited anymore although last years play off games were magical.

[Welldaft Mk1]

Overall our attendances are low just now but Christmas is approaching and we've not been playing well. Our core support in recent years never really varies outwith 3,100 - 4,100. By way of comparison, I think a year ago we played Ross County at Fir Park and our home crowd was about 3,100.

 

Was looking at the Well again hardback last night

 

Back in 1984 in the old premier league in Jan at home we had 1800 attendance v Dundee

 

I have been going since the mid 70's, but only regularly for the past 25 years.

 

Our crowds seem to peak in the mid to late 90's where the home support was between 5-6000

 

Mostly it has been between 4-5000, but these days is between 3-4000.

 

It is what it is and we do need to try to attract back some stay away fans and make sure we do not lose any more. 7500 v Gers in the play offs and euro games shows we have decent support, when the team is playing well, the weather is not Sh1t and not near Xmas or school holidays.

[DEWELL]

Yes the team playing better will certainly help and the winter shutdown should be 4 weeks. The last 2 in December 1st 2 in January. The performance against Dundee was encouraging.

[milo]

All the reasons people have mentioned for the attendances being poor are relevant and do impact to varying degrees but I believe the main reason is that the team have been atrocious, not up and down or inconsistent, but atrocious, for nearly a season and a half. The playoffs v Sevco proved that the fans are still there but for many that was their first game that season. The terrible start to this season (after last year) has tested many fans resilinance for another slog at the bottom and for many it's been a bridge too far and has forced them to walk away. I admit I miss a fair few games these days due to work but when I am there the spare seats round about me are everywhere and guys that have been sitting near me for years haven't been there for ages. Even the Bois section is noticeably emptier. It's depressing to see.

 

The floating fans will only ever turn up for finals and Euro games (if we ever see them again!) but when the die hards and regulars drift away that's very worrying.

 

I really really hope that we have turned a corner with regards to results and performances this season and this may encourage a few folk back but a good cup run may be more important than ever this season.

[Donaldo87]

Opening day against St Mirren last season 4620 with a decent enough St Mirren support - Maybe 800
First home game this season against Dundee Utd 4859 again with a decent enough support - Maybe 800 - 1000?

 

Before you even get to the christmas / weather / money arguments we are struggling to get 4000 home fans through the door on a good day.

I remember the St Mirren game well last season - even after the embarrassment of Stjarnan I was looking forward to the first home game and it was a cracking day and looked around thinking where is everyone. But the stats seem to be suggest its been like that for years at the start of the season.

 

We're down to a core 3000 I reckon. With another 1000 who probably want to go most of the time but often find something better to do. Maybe coming for about half the games.

[capt_oats]

Opening day against St Mirren last season 4620 with a decent enough St Mirren support - Maybe 800

First home game this season against Dundee Utd 4859 again with a decent enough support - Maybe 800 - 1000?

 

For what it's worth I was having a look through some old programmes from back when I started going to Fir Park. The attendance for August fixture vs St Mirren in the 1989/90 season (as comparison to the St Mirren game you mention above) was 4703.

 

First home game that season was vs Aberdeen which was 6491, that game this season was 5437.

 

I think most of the points raised in this thread are more than valid. You've got cultural, financial and social factors all combining. You've also got the 'what's the point' element Ya Bezzer mentioned above which I very much agree with. You've got a media, even worse, managers and players constantly reinforcing the idea that only one team can win the league (whether it's the case or not doesn't matter) yet in the same breath wondering why people decide not to bother engaging with the game.

 

Edit: In fairness and for balance some of the attendances later that season you could only dream about now; 1-1 draw with Dunfermline on 8th Nov was 9,138, St Mirren on 2nd January was 8,253. That said a home game against Dundee in September had 4,463 in.

[johnstone]

I think the main factor is more to do with the saturation coverage on TV .Granted its good to see good teams ,occasionally, e.g Barcelona.,but you can turn on the TV and watch any old dross 7 nights a week,if you wanted.

I don't agree with that. I have a basic tv package without the sports channels and I am sure I am not the only one in that camp, but this season I have watched almost no football on the tv as the terrestrial channels have no rights to games.

 

I think attendances are falling due less and less people being interested in football in Scotland and thats really down to the fact our league has zero competitiveness.

[StAndrew7]

I don't agree with that. I have a basic tv package without the sports channels and I am sure I am not the only one in that camp, but this season I have watched almost no football on the tv as the terrestrial channels have no rights to games.

 

I think attendances are falling due less and less people being interested in football in Scotland and thats really down to the fact our league has zero competitiveness.

 

100% this.

 

In addition, I've been to 4 games this season; only 1 at Fir Park as I can't justify the £20 it costs me to get into the East Stand for the majority of games. I'm aware a season ticket offers a much better deal, but I wouldn't be able to attend a fair number of games due to personal reasons, so I'd still be spending the £20/match.

 

Like Kmcaplin said, 'other' costs have skyrocketed in the last 5/10 years. I'm spending double what a decent season ticket would cost me for my golf membership, which I'd much rather have in the long run than the odd Saturday at Fir Park. I play football 3/4 times a week, two of those with my amateur team and those all add up to the £20 it'd cost me to get into Fir Park on a weekly basis; I'd much rather play and lose my beer gut than sit at FP to watch other people do what I enjoy doing with my mates 3 or 4 times a week.

[punk_in_drublic]

I had to give my season ticket up for 2014/15 season because I have a young daughter I need to take care of. She's 2 just now and when she's old enough, I'll be getting the season ticket back.

 

Having said that, me and some non-Motherwell supporting work colleagues try to get to a few games a season. But the main factors for me not being totally inspired to go to matches are:

 

1. The actual product is shite.

 

2. The opposition in general are also shite.

 

3. There hasn't been an exciting prospect ie talented young player or two on the pitch for a while. There's been some OK ones, but there's been few people to get excited about. Guys like Murphy and McCormack, although not world beaters, were worth paying to see a lot of the time. Few have excited me in the manner the last two seasons.

 

4. There hasn't been an opposition young prospect to get excited about since maybe Gauld. Entertainments a two way street.

 

5. Alcohol. Controversial, but I like a beer. Mix beer and football and you've won my heart. Football would be much more attractive to me if drinking was allowed again.

 

6. Scottish miserableness. As others have said, the media are actually fucking PISH at selling it. I watch big Jason Mohammed on the BBC red button on a Saturday. When those miserable bastarts from the Scottish Final Score show come on they fucking depress me. Their voices. Their faces. It's brutal. A guy was on it on Saturday and he was miserable as fuck, I don't even remember him smiling. It's not a game of poker. But that's about the extent of personality our presenting teams and pundits put into it.

 

7. Rangers. Like it or not. But not having Rangers makes the whole affair less interesting as a complete product.

 

8. Most young folk nowadays like the glamour and simplicity of having an English team. I was in Walkabout a few weeks back and it was rammed with folk watching English Premiership and La Liga stuff. Not a shit was given about the teams on the doorstep.

 

9. National team being shite has led to an interest in the sport in general. As someone else mentioned, fewer folk are into football. The more we fail, the less inspired folk are going to be and we've been failing since 2000. That's enough time for a 20 year old never to have watched us on TV in a major tournament.

 

10. League structure is PISH.

 

11. Lack of local pride. England is much vaster in terms of geographical distances between lots of teams. In the central belt were all about an hour away from one another. I don't know but if I was a Newcastle fan I'd be well into getting it up the soft southerners like Southampton, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

 

There's probably more but I've depressed myself now,

[underboyleheating]

Dunfermline on 8th Nov was 9,138, St Mirren on 2nd January was 8,253.

You tend to forget just how many well supported teams have fallen out of the top league. When playing well Dunfermline, St.Mirren, Morton and numerous other sides have the potential to bring big away crowds. One of our biggest away supports last season came from Partick Thistle, I can’t remember how many they brought, however, it must have been close to around 1500.

[stv]

punk.... I think you are suffering a dose of real life blues and responsibility's,or is it your just getting older ? Happens to us all at some point I'm afraid . Once your kids have grown up a bit your attention will drift back to football on a Saturday and will get back into it. Life changes but Motherwell is constant.

[Goggles & Flippers]

The club has to hold it's hands up too, too many missed opportunities to capitalise on the peaks in our performances or attendances.

 

Since 2011 and our Cup Final appearance, an event where the club alone organised approx 25 buses from FP, not one season ticket sign-up form was put on the 50 seats on each of those buses.

 

We've had bumper crowds at FP for a few European games and a recent game against some lower league shower, I can't see any evidence of this being followed up on.

 

Over the past 20 years, think of all the housing developments has have boosted the local population in Motherwell, Bellshill and Wishaw, granted many will move here with existing affiliations but many will not but have they been advised of what's on offer? How many people locally are absolutely ambivalent or uninformed about anything going on at FP.

 

Things like the WellEvate scheme where with one full price adults season ticket you can get up to 2 free kids tickets (in the Cooper), that equates to £5 each for 3 hours out the house, not many other pass-times in this day and age get you that. Combine it with a visit to Pizza Hut afterwards and you get the BOGOF. I wonder how many existing and new residents of the area would maybe consider parting with money if they actually knew about this?

 

Just the perception seems to be more of an emphasis on everything other than season ticket renewals, retention or new business within the Chapman appears but no shortage of time and resources to chase corporate cash.

 

Long and short is we have the same overheads for every game staged at FP regardless of the attendance, so every extra behind on a seat has to be a bonus. Signing up 5 season tickets can't be far away from a pitch-side advertising board, just there doesn't seem to much appetite to phone up the Davie and Shug's of this world to ask them for 300 quid.

[Busta Nut]

1. The actual product is shite.

 

2. The opposition in general are also shite.

 

6. Scottish miserableness. As others have said, the media are actually fucking PISH at selling it. I watch big Jason Mohammed on the BBC red button on a Saturday. When those miserable bastarts from the Scottish Final Score show come on they fucking depress me. Their voices. Their faces. It's brutal. A guy was on it on Saturday and he was miserable as fuck, I don't even remember him smiling. It's not a game of poker. But that's about the extent of personality our presenting teams and pundits put into it.

 

11. Lack of local pride. England is much vaster in terms of geographical distances between lots of teams. In the central belt were all about an hour away from one another. I don't know but if I was a Newcastle fan I'd be well into getting it up the soft southerners like Southampton, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

 

 

 

I think these are all a bit of a contradiction.

 

I get fairly entertained when I am at the fitba, granted recently it's maybe not been in our favour for 18 months but I do enjoy it and there are still flashes of brillance at games.

Does your Scottish miserablesness contribute to you not enjoying the games? You claim the media are pish at selling it (which I don't disagree with) but your own assessment of what you take from it isn't exactly uplifting.

Lack of local pride I understand what you mean with all the religous connotations from yesteryear having an effect on who (if not how) a lot of folk are brought up supporting, probably about 90% of Lanarkshire "supports" either of the old firm. I'd extend that to local pride in our own game as a whole. I really do enjoy Scottish fitba but I do think a lot of folk put it down just cos they can. We may not have the talent or the finance of the larger nations but it is still enjoyable (for me) and can still be excitable. The endless stream of fitba available on the telly these days has certainly diluted our opinion on our own game I think.

 

There are good points made and we all know as I said we don't have the most talented players, I just feel a lot of folk (not neccessarily you) like to put the boot into Scottish fitba for the sake of it.