something else Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Charging kids is a big problem. If a dad wants to go to a game and has kids it costs a fortune. Under 16's should be free if accompanied by a paying adult. Bring back standing areas too so that if a kid gets bored he can move around rather than be stuck in a seat for almost 2 hours. It's basic stuff and may sound mad but it may save our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 High prices, long queues, terrible facilities, poor standard of food and drink, etc are all within the clubs gift to change to some extent, but it can't be denied that it's much more difficult to get folk to football matches now that it's never off the TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 It has to be acknowledged that TV is only part of the issue though. As an example, I was a week-in/week-out'er since 1994 until a couple of seasons ago. I don't have Sky or Virgin or BT etc...so pretty much no access to football on TV, and I reckon i've been to maybe only 7 games in the last 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 It has to be acknowledged that TV is only part of the issue though. As an example, I was a week-in/week-out'er since 1994 until a couple of seasons ago. I don't have Sky or Virgin or BT etc...so pretty much no access to football on TV, and I reckon i've been to maybe only 7 games in the last 2 seasons. So you've told us what the reason isn't - do you mind if I enquire as to the obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Well, the reason I didn't go on to explain why, is that I'm not exactly sure. It's probably a combination of a few things, but mostly I think it's the "pulling back the curtain" so to speak. The best I can do by way of explanation, is that for me the appeal was always the escapism of going to the games, it was just purely watching football. Over the last few years there has been a huge drive to get fans more involved in the club, and it's actually what's pushed me away in many ways. I don't care about players contracts, I don't want to know what goes on behind the scenes or how the club is run, how much money we spend and make, turnovers, TV deals, sponsorships etc etc. I just want to watch the football. I know there are those who would say "well just don't get involved then", but in this day and age it's impossible to ignore, with all the in's and out's of football being pushed into the the public domain from all sides. I guess for me the opening up of the workings of the club and the game, has taken away a lot of the magic that was the reason I went to football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Well, the reason I didn't go on to explain why, is that I'm not exactly sure. It's probably a combination of a few things, but mostly I think it's the "pulling back the curtain" so to speak. The best I can do by way of explanation, is that for me the appeal was always the escapism of going to the games, it was just purely watching football. Over the last few years there has been a huge drive to get fans more involved in the club, and it's actually what's pushed me away in many ways. I don't care about players contracts, I don't want to know what goes on behind the scenes or how the club is run, how much money we spend and make, turnovers, TV deals, sponsorships etc etc. I just want to watch the football. I know there are those who would say "well just don't get involved then", but in this day and age it's impossible to ignore, with all the in's and out's of football being pushed into the the public domain from all sides. I guess for me the opening up of the workings of the club and the game, has taken away a lot of the magic that was the reason I went to football. Are you me? Pretty much how I feel these days. I was there for the fitba' but now it's like a neverending game of Monopoly and it has sucked all the pleasure out of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Well, the reason I didn't go on to explain why, is that I'm not exactly sure. It's probably a combination of a few things, but mostly I think it's the "pulling back the curtain" so to speak. The best I can do by way of explanation, is that for me the appeal was always the escapism of going to the games, it was just purely watching football. Over the last few years there has been a huge drive to get fans more involved in the club, and it's actually what's pushed me away in many ways. I don't care about players contracts, I don't want to know what goes on behind the scenes or how the club is run, how much money we spend and make, turnovers, TV deals, sponsorships etc etc. I just want to watch the football. I know there are those who would say "well just don't get involved then", but in this day and age it's impossible to ignore, with all the in's and out's of football being pushed into the the public domain from all sides. I guess for me the opening up of the workings of the club and the game, has taken away a lot of the magic that was the reason I went to football. Small example of this. Years ago I couldn't tell you who owned or who was the chairman of football clubs around the country. Now, if push came to shove, could probably name most of them. Could probably name as many of them as I could first choice goalkeepers. Whether that's down to more clubs getting in financial trouble, the clubs themselves creating the SPL and being more vocal, or the rise of PR hungry chairmen like Murray, Boyle and Romanov or what, I don't know. What I do know is that it doesn't seem like a good thing to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I see that happening with telly, and all the talentless people who become famous for being racist on 'reality' TV, but choose not to watch any of that. It's probably easier over here to avoid the endless stream of football gossip etc. about football, but I don't see as much of that aspect here. Of course, getting older contributes to those jaded feelings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 To a large, but not exclusive, extent its fans themselves who are demanding more information and clubs are simply reacting to this. Clubs are under more scrutiny now than ever before. When I first began going to Fir Park the vast majority of fans simply wouldn't dare to question Bobby Ancell's tactics or team selection. They were what they were. Likewise the running of the club was the sole prerogative of Mr Hepburn and his directors and again no-one would dare question how the club was run. If I'd gone to a game and dared to ask where a transfer fee had gone I'd have been met with icy stares. The world has moved on and new technology has changed football and life in general forever. My father and uncles were diehards but they would not discuss football outwith matchday, with the possible exception of Supporters Club meetings. They respected the Manager and Chairman and had 100% trust in both of them at all times. We'll never see those days again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 As you say, we'll never see those days again. Out of interest, on the rare occasion a manager was sacked did they respect the chairman's decision and move on? If the manager was doing badly enough to get sacked there must have been dissenting voices. Surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Out of interest, on the rare occasion a manager was sacked did they respect the chairman's decision and move on? If the manager was doing badly enough to get sacked there must have been dissenting voices. Surely? Like today, there was always one or two dissenting voices and the support never agreed 100% between themselves on anything, well almost anything. In general the support would back the Chairman's view and even if the manager was in charge during a bad run of defeats they would not question the Chairman or the manager himself. They were different times and society was much different to what it is today. I can only ever recall my father leaving a game early maybe twice and on both occasions we were winning the games comfortably and for many that just wasn't what they wanted to see. Like today money was tight for many, and our fans wanted to see 2 evenly matched sides battle it out, with us winning of course. Interest in English football was very limited and those who did buy magazines like "Shoot" only did so for novelty value. Football like society in general has evolved and moved on especially since the late 70s and the arrival of Thatcherism. Up until then there was more camaraderie and less "whats in it for me" attitude. Interestingly though our attendances in the late 60s was usually between the 3,500 - 5,000 mark much what it is like today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Lots of empty seats in middle 3 sections of East Stand compared to 5, 6 + years ago. My uncle, who got me into the Well over a decade ago, aint been in nearly 3yrs and he was a diehard all his life. Improve the product. Improve the matchday experience. Improve Fir Park, and ditch the "Thru Thick and Thin" pish. That might work. Yet 3 years ago (season 2012-13) we were playing probably our best football under McCall, were genuinely entertaining to watch and went on to finish second in the league (and finished closer to Celtic than Aberdeen did last year, despite all the fanfare they received). If that's not good enough for some, I'm really not sure what can be done to turn things around. Some thought the intensity of a relegation scrap would bring back the fans. We did that last year. Other than the playoffs, that didn't make a bit of difference. European football hasn't done it. It really makes me wonder what people are expecting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yet 3 years ago (season 2012-13) we were playing probably our best football under McCall, were genuinely entertaining to watch and went on to finish second in the league (and finished closer to Celtic than Aberdeen did last year, despite all the fanfare they received). If that's not good enough for some, I'm really not sure what can be done to turn things around. Some thought the intensity of a relegation scrap would bring back the fans. We did that last year. Other than the playoffs, that didn't make a bit of difference. European football hasn't done it. It really makes me wonder what people are expecting. The Malpas season had average attendance pretty the same as McCall's first full season when we finished 3rd (using that comparison as both seasons had the former Rangers in the top league). Which would suggest that relative "success" isn't the issue as such. http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/302136-how-has-your-clubs-average-attendance-changed-in-past-20-years/ Speaking as someone who's gone from being a regular from late 80s through the 90s but became a 'lapsed' fan for a fair bit of the mid-00s but have started going to games pretty regularly again from Baraclough's appointment to present the biggest thing for me was habit. Around the *peak* SPL era when teams were bringing over fairly average imports I felt less and less connection with the Scottish game. I didn't really feel I indentified with the team in the same way as going to watch McKinnon, McCart, Martin, Cooper, Arnott, Coyne et al and same went for the players in teams coming to Fir Park. I just began to drift and got out of the habit of going to games. A manager like McCall talking us down against the newco Rangers in the league cup did nothing to entice me back. I started going back to games not because of results or match day experience or factors like that but simply because I quite fancied going to watch a game of football of a Saturday afternoon again along with sites like this and P&B helping me identify with the game in general again and the MFCPodcast efforts doing similar. The fact that you're seeing clubs bringing through their own players has made games more interesting to someone like me as well. Sorry for the long ramble but as I say given I'm actually someone who had drifted from the support on match days I thought I'd chip in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The only thing that improves the match day experience is a bigger crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 And the only thing that brings in a bigger crowd is a better matchday experience. And that is why we NEED Eddie Van Halen on guitar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swami Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The 'match day experience' when I started going was sitting on a crash barrier while angry men shouted at the moon and pissed in empty cans. And it was still better than those bears or bloody cheerleaders. Folk that stop going because the team are pish use this 'match day experience' nonsense as an excuse for being quitters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscot Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The 'match day experience' when I started going was sitting on a crash barrier while angry men shouted at the moon and pissed in empty cans. And it was still better than those bears or bloody cheerleaders. Folk that stop going because the team are pish use this 'match day experience' nonsense as an excuse for being quitters. At least the "angry men " used a can !!! My dad used to tell me they used the guys pocket standing in front of them !!!!!! Keep them warm I suppose . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigeeze Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Also pouring a pint of grease out the pies bought fae the howf at the top of the bing. Or the Hairy Macaroon guy walking through the crowd during the march. That we match day experience when I started lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yes, the chart on the STV website is pretty depressing Motherwell's crowds have been slowly diminishing over the last two decades, despite often turning in impressive showings on the pitch. While the club experienced a number of years of difficulty in the early 2000s, they have found it difficult to reverse the trend when it comes to diminishing numbers. It's difficult to see what they are doing wrong, with a successful team and no significant price increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yes, the chart on the STV website is pretty depressing Related to that. The peak average was the 98/99 season, the game at Fir Park vs United reports a crowd of 11k+ which seems disproportionately high compared to other attendances vs United around then. I was definitely at the game but can't remember why the crowd was so big. Did 11k turn up just to see McClair? http://youtu.be/iehaumPuHK0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'd say that our crowd figures in the 90s got a boost from the cup win, the mid 90s team and Celtic being shite meaning we picked up some extra bodies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Related to that. The peak average was the 98/99 season, the game at Fir Park vs United reports a crowd of 11k+ which seems disproportionately high compared to other attendances vs United around then. I was definitely at the game but can't remember why the crowd was so big. Did 11k turn up just to see McClair? It was a fiver for adults and a quid for kids. The South Stand was open for home fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 It was a fiver for adults and a quid for kids. The South Stand was open for home fans. Cheers! I wondered if it was something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'd say that our crowd figures in the 90s got a boost from the cup win, the mid 90s team and Celtic being shite meaning we picked up some extra bodies. A lot of it is down to success, but much to do with the opposition also. It always sticks in my mind for example the crowds between Motherwell and Kilmarnock during their first season back in the top flight. Having checked Well Again it suggests that over 33,000 folk watched the 4 games between the sides during 93'94. How many games would we need to top 33,000 now? Even Hamilton brought close to 1000 the first time they played at Fir Park after coming up a few years back. Fast forward to last week, Saturday afternoon at New Year and they couldn't bring more than 550. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 To be meaningful, we should also look at the attendance graphs for other clubs. I'd also like to see attendance figures going back to the 1960s. The loss of Rangers, in purely financial terms, has been a blow in the past 3/4 years. In some years we had 4 home games against the former Old Firm but last season we only entertained Celtic once at Fir Park. So the figures need to be interpreted with caution. Figures this year will be up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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