Our Attendances

[weeyin]

Going back to the "matchday experience", like others I'm not exactly sure what that is. However, one thing that I haven't enjoyed over the years is the all seated stadia; particularly in the winter. I always found it better standing on the terrace when it was cold, as you could move about a bit more to keep warm. Having your knees up at your chin isn't much fun either.

[fizoxy]

A lot of it is down to factors outwith our control, such as more football on tv and multiple alternative family entertainment options. However, I think there is plenty that can be done to make the game more appealing. I'd start with a bigger league because I have absolutely no desire to see us play kilmarnock or Ross county four times each, and neither do I want to pay over 20 quid for the privilege.

 

Yes, this will introduce so called meaningless games, but I don't think the cut throat atmosphere of the smaller league is conducive to bringing in young players or attempting entertaining football.

 

Also, it would be nice that if we were to introduce new fans to the game that they are not made to feel like children / criminals and have to sit in shitty seats and can't even enjoy a beer with the game.

 

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the whole SFSA manifesto that was published today, will we see some movement? or will it be filed with the Henry mcleish report and the other think tank recommendations from years past?

[FirParkCornerExile]

All interesting stuff but for me the decline is due to Scottish Football complete and utter inability to do ANYTHING imaginative to change the product. The product is completely stale . My match day experience is no different to it was 40 years ago. Forty years ago

 

1. I knew my team could never win the league that honour would only go to two teams, today its still the same.

2, Forty years ago the blazers thought changing the numbers of teams in the league changes anything , they still do

3. Forty years ago instead of promoting their own product differently they constantly bitched about football in England and "the we can't compete" syndrome they still do.

4. Forty years ago they were considering the winter break as being forward thinking, it wasn't but they still do.

5. 40 years ago they ditched the League cup mini leagues as a season opener because fans hated it and they wanted to make it a short sharp tournament, 40 years later they've wrapped up the same old sh1te they had then and try and convince us its new.

 

The demise of Rangers was sold as an utter holocaust , particularly by Motherwell, instead of seeing it as an opportunity to break the voting strangle hold the OF had over everyone else and try to be really innovative Aberdeen side up with Celtic and when Rangers return the voting strangle hold they have will still be in place.

 

The custodians of the Scottish game (ie the clubs) are collectively incompetent and only ever want to support a corrupt set up that favours two teams and ensure the rest get at least 3 big gates a season without having to try to hard instead of trying to create a competitive league to boost attendances at all games.

 

If people were told who would win the Golf majors every year for the next 40 years and the R&A and PGA went out their way to ensure the same two players won everything do people seriously think crowds at the majors wouldn't plummet.

 

If there is an opportunity to be missed or fpucked up Scottish football would do it. As soon as Rangers demise happened the clubs, instead of wringing their hands and screaming Armageddon, should have approached the TV companies and said how much will you give us to move to summer football , instead or trying to compete and compare with down south fill the TV schedules with a Scottish product. Sell the product and chip away at this myth that Scottish football is desperate compared to everything down South. use the extra money to make meaningful changes.Even if moving to Summer Football failed theres an easy answer change it back but for FFS try it.

 

In England the match day highlights are on immediately that night when fans are still excited and talking about games. In Scotland its days later when most fans have less of an intensity about the events on the Saturday. Who agreed that TV deal. Cup draws , in England the excitement is kept up and the draws made after the games and fans get to listen in on their way home. In Scotland we hold the draw back for days and make it live on TV on a Tuesday afternoon when every buggers at work, seriously Scottish football couldn't sell water in a dessert.

 

Clubs do absolutely fpuck all for visiting fans the cost are horrendous and that's where the biggest fan loss has gone. They should make it £10 across the board for all away fans. The numbers are now so low they'd make more money with the increased number of fans travelling. They could look at the points structure to try an invigorate the game. There are a ton of things they could have and should do but they don't. They just want fans to turn up shut up and accept a completely uncompetitive set up. They have quite blatantly broken their own rules to support corruption in relation to one of their biggest clubs. Unless it involves changing the number of teams in the league or re introducing other tried and failed concepts as new the custodians are utterly bereft of any original ideas.

 

The only thing that has changed in my 40 years watching Motherwell is all seater stadia, which was forced upon them and giving the refs a can of foam. The only real surprise is that we actually have anyone who still watches our game with the complete and utter fuuds that run it.

Edited January 8, 2016 by FirParkCornerExile

[FirParkCornerExile]

Related to that. The peak average was the 98/99 season, the game at Fir Park vs United reports a crowd of 11k+ which seems disproportionately high compared to other attendances vs United around then.

 

I was definitely at the game but can't remember why the crowd was so big. Did 11k turn up just to see McClair?

 

Was that not one of the 2 / 3 games when Boyle took over and charged a fiver to get in. We had two games with crowds of 9 and 11,000 those games would have disproportionately boosted our average for that season. I clearly remember them. There was a wow feeling this was a new dawn , it was just warm weather and a fiver no new dawn.

Edited January 8, 2016 by FirParkCornerExile

[Shaka]

the "Matchday experience" for me reminds me of when I was in Houston a few years ago and went to a Houston Rockets v Orlando Magic game. For a start, our tickets were amazing and only around $25, the tickets were sold on a sliding scale from $7 for the rafters to $000's for Courtside so everyone who wanted to go had the opportunity. From the second we entered the arena, the cheerleaders were milling around doing photos,a local kid was djing in the concourse, the club shop was hoaching,restaurants in the arena were packed with families,there were vendors wandering around selling hot dogs / hats / beer. During the game every break was filled, the fans got involved with games on the big screen,the cheerleaders were out dancing etc, the organ was on encouraging fans to chant and sing. There was as much or as little entertainment as you personally wanted, plus some of the best players in the world ..................

Then the week after I went to a Motherwell game,sat in the East Stand,paying £18/£20 and getting searched then herded into the ground,watching stewards pull kids from the stand because they wouldnt sit down, listening to a faint crackle for a pa system,enjoying an expensive pie that left me looking like Simon Weston after the grease exploded out on the first bite,kiosk shut just after half time and herded out after watching "professional" players who couldnt pass a ball 5 yards.

 

my point is, were conditioned here to turn up,pay,get what were given and sit on our plastic chair shutting the fuck up till its time to leave, then fuck off and turn up again 2 weeks later. It could and should be much better

[superward]

the "Matchday experience" for me reminds me of when I was in Houston a few years ago and went to a Houston Rockets v Orlando Magic game. For a start, our tickets were amazing and only around $25, the tickets were sold on a sliding scale from $7 for the rafters to $000's for Courtside so everyone who wanted to go had the opportunity. From the second we entered the arena, the cheerleaders were milling around doing photos,a local kid was djing in the concourse, the club shop was hoaching,restaurants in the arena were packed with families,there were vendors wandering around selling hot dogs / hats / beer. During the game every break was filled, the fans got involved with games on the big screen,the cheerleaders were out dancing etc, the organ was on encouraging fans to chant and sing. There was as much or as little entertainment as you personally wanted, plus some of the best players in the world ..................

Then the week after I went to a Motherwell game,sat in the East Stand,paying £18/£20 and getting searched then herded into the ground,watching stewards pull kids from the stand because they wouldnt sit down, listening to a faint crackle for a pa system,enjoying an expensive pie that left me looking like Simon Weston after the grease exploded out on the first bite,kiosk shut just after half time and herded out after watching "professional" players who couldnt pass a ball 5 yards.

 

my point is, were conditioned here to turn up,pay,get what were given and sit on our plastic chair shutting the fuck up till its time to leave, then fuck off and turn up again 2 weeks later. It could and should be much better

Come and sit in the the main stand - good pa, non plastic seats, no searching or herding and you get your shout directly at Dougie Imrie from about 10 yards while he sit's in the dugout. It was magic.

 

I jest clearly.

[Kmcalpin]

Assessing attendance figures on an annual basis is fraught with difficulty. Yes, the cost of football has risen but so have other costs and yes the team played badly last season so no doubt these factors impacted on our attendance figure. Out of interest I checked back figures for 1970-71, 1971-72 and 1972-73.

 

1970-71

 

Average attendance 7,797. Rangers 17,500; Celtic 20,000; Aberdeen 10,000; St Johnstone 5,500.

 

1971-72

 

Average attendance 6,227. Rangers 20,000; Celtic 19,000; Aberdeen 6,251; Kilmarnock 3,774; Dundee United 2,234

 

1972-73

 

Average attendance 5,262. Rangers 22,000; Celtic 12,439; Aberdeen 4,500; Arbroath 2,330; Partick Thistle 3,080

 

So, yes attendances have dropped since WW2 due to changes in Society, the rise of alternative attractions etc etc. However, very often and in particular last season, much has depended on the opposition. Last season we had no Hearts, Hibs or Sevco. For the past few seasons we have entertained (I love that word) Ross County and Inverness who don't bring hordes of fans. Historically, before the rise of TV, the Old Firm as was, would be good for 35-40k fans a year. In the last few years that's dropped to about 16,000 fans a year.

 

Big factors I would say are live TV, all seater stadia, and the nature of the opposition. There is no doubt that the demise of Rangers hit us hard as the club warned us it would do although the media use of the word Armageddon was OTT. Killie have also suffered badly.

 

I still remain hopeful that long term we can increase our attendances but it'll be hard and will require imaginative thinking. We can learn from the USA but please no OTT razzamataz - that just isn't part of our culture. There are many other external factors too that need to be changed.

 

Throughout our history fans have come and gone and that will never change. Folk attend Fir Park for a variety of reasons and I've learnt very recently, like within the past day or two, that some fans feel threatened or under attack from information overload. Others simply can't get enough and are demanding more and more information.

 

In short analysis of our attendance figures is very complex.

[Busta Nut]

I enjoyed the Utd Game. Sunny. Loads of 'Well fans. Then Kai Nyyssonnen (or whatever) scored to win 1-0 #frobackfriday

[Graeme Bremner]

Am I the only one who'd like it to be cheerleaders waving the flags and entertaining us at half time and as the players come out

 

or maybe a halftime show where someone dresses up as a big hard man and chases a referee around the pitch

 

Or we have a adult stand and we just employ exotic dancers that's surely attract folk in they might not be there for the footy but its get folk in

 

Or there's always that option of the SFA and the SPFL giving us what we want a 18 team top flight and wrap the 16 team pish talk and maybe admit that the 12 team league is hardly the envy of Europe

 

Sometimes in order to go forward you have to go back (quoting my old man here) the teams in Scotland maybe not us at the time granted were doing better in Europe because s'more money and the league was more competitive with 18 teams

 

Some idiot eons ago (before my lifetime bout late 80's early 90's decided we are a small nation and shouldn't be competing in Europe the national team can't be that good our young players aren't good enough etc etc

 

Attendances will only get better as a result of the league getting better I see no reason why Scotland can't stride to be like holland

 

The league has to play catch up now and it needs a change right throug from the top of the SFA right down to every clubs "youth" policy

[Dodge]

Related to that. The peak average was the 98/99 season, the game at Fir Park vs United reports a crowd of 11k+ which seems disproportionately high compared to other attendances vs United around then.

 

I was definitely at the game but can't remember why the crowd was so big. Did 11k turn up just to see McClair?

 

http://youtu.be/iehaumPuHK0

That game was a Sunday night with kick off at back of 6pm. I think it was part of a pilot to give Sky something to make "Super Sunday" last a little longer. As the match was on Sky, I'm sure Boyle either dropped the prices or used one of his season ticket holders can bring 2 friends scheme to boost the crowd. Bear in mind this was also shortly after Boyle acquired the club, made a lot of promises and backed some of them up with a large number of signings during the summer.

[steelman1991]

That game was a Sunday night with kick off at back of 6pm. I think it was part of a pilot to give Sky something to make "Super Sunday" last a little longer. As the match was on Sky, I'm sure Boyle either dropped the prices or used one of his season ticket holders can bring 2 friends scheme to boost the crowd. Bear in mind this was also shortly after Boyle acquired the club, made a lot of promises and backed some of them up with a large number of signings during the summer.

 

£5 and £1 - commentator mentions it in the first few seconds.

[Andy_P]

There were two games that I recall had the reduced admission costs. I think the United one was a fiver and something makes me think the other Dunfermline might have been slightly more, perhaps a tenner or something towards that.

 

Whilst we didn't lose either in true Motherwell style both games were utterly dreadful - a 1-0 and 0-0.

[superward]

There is no silver bullet.

 

But for me (as someone who has a season ticket already) the main thing is the football game itself.

 

I think we have a tighter league nowadays which is fine but an overall noticeable drop in quality is very clear to see and I think keeps people away. If we can improve the quality and play less matches against the same teams then I think attendances would improve regardless of seats, pies, half time entertainment etc.

 

The focus needs to be on the actual game itself to bring the core increase we seek.

[Kmcalpin]

I think we have a tighter league nowadays which is fine but an overall noticeable drop in quality is very clear to see and I think keeps people away.

Many fans go on about a drop in quality but what are you comparing the standard with? If the comparison is limited to our own team, we've had a damn good sides in recent years, last season excepted. I can recall some absolutely dire teams in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. The team under Alex McLeish was so bad I stopped going for several weeks. In more recent times, Maurice Malpas's side wasn't exactly world class. The current team is way superior to some of these dreadful sides. If its Scottish football in general then it depends on which teams you want to include in the comparison. Celtic are probably poorer as is Dundee United. However Hearts, Aberdeen, Ross County, Inverness and St Johnstone are probably at their strongest they've been in recent times.

 

No. I'd say our current team isn't that bad.

[Lord Tanamo]

What plans do you have to "improve the product" that the club hasn't tried already?

What have they tried ? From what I've seen, its my opinion the SPL is poor product.

 

The product we have now is no worse than it was in much of the the 60s, 70s and 80s when crowds were much higher. Expectations have however increased markedly.

Am too young to compare.

 

 

When people say this I'm never really sure what they mean. What do you expect from the 'experience'?

Lunch at home, go to pub, trudge to FP, pay £20 to get in, squeeze thru turnstyle, go for piss in stinking and flooded toilet, (probably have to Q and cant wash/dry hands), find a seat with a decent view, get told to sit down by steward, watch 45mins of misery listening to dogs abuse being hurled by fellow Dossers, queue for the toilet experience again, queue for an overpriced bovril and soggy pie, another 45mins of misery and more abuse hurling, then leave by exit gate and go to pub and/or home.

Lots of potential to improve MDE; affordable lunch at FP, a better serviced bar and more fan friendly than Cooper currently offers, improved catering/toilet facilities, safe standing areas, better stewards + what SomethingElse says. Not rocket science.

 

 

Charging kids is a big problem. If a dad wants to go to a game and has kids it costs a fortune. Under 16's should be free if accompanied by a paying adult.

 

Bring back standing areas too so that if a kid gets bored he can move around rather than be stuck in a seat for almost 2 hours.

 

It's basic stuff and may sound mad but it may save our game.

 

Agreed.

 

High prices, long queues, terrible facilities, poor standard of food and drink, etc are all within the clubs gift to change to some extent, but it can't be denied that it's much more difficult to get folk to football matches now that it's never off the TV.

 

Agreed.

[weeyin]

Well one recent attempt to improve the SPL (where have you seen no attempts) is that we no longer have an SPL. We have the SPFL with a different financial distribution model and play-offs every season.

[Lord Tanamo]

Well one recent attempt to improve the SPL (where have you seen no attempts) is that we no longer have an SPL. We have the SPFL with a different financial distribution model and play-offs every season.

 

The Club "tried" that, did they ?

[weeyin]

You said "From what I've seen, its my opinion the SPL is poor product".

 

If you meant "the club" then the SPL is not really the correct term.

 

Over the years, the club has given away tickets to local youth organizations, reduced ticket prices for many games, offered the 10 game season tickets, offered bring a friend for free, offered counltess activities for kids. They have supported the Well Bois efforts, they have conducted open meetings to solicit suggestions for improvement, they have kicked off the Well Society.

 

In recent times, the new owner has restructured the Board, implemented a new scouting system, hired a sports scientist to work with the players, and for the first time in a ling time, approved transfer fees for players we hope to be able to develop and sell on.

 

And that's off the top of my head in 30 seconds. I'm sure there's more.

 

I've answered your quesiton, how about you answer mine.

 

What would you like the club to try that they haven't yet tried?

[Happy Dosser]

Going by Lord Tanamo's wee flag and its associations, I would surmise he is happy to do down the Scottish game. If he doesn't like his experience, he could perhaps explain how he thinks a club like ours can do more, as weeyin perceptively asked. We've tried everything, from millionaire to fan ownership.

 

I buy a season ticket; I go to every home game; I enjoy either a mutton or steak pie and a bovril; I meet my pals in the stand and support my team. What's not to like? The English Premier League is obscenely rich, and getting richer, and we are holding on for grim life, like all Scottish clubs, with the exception of the Old Firm, who still desperately try to hawk themselves to the English leagues, and would sell the rest of us out in an instant.

 

I have seen poorer 'Well teams in the past, i.e since 1962. We have always struggled beside the twin black holes of the Ugly Sisters and inadequate/patronising BBC/STV coverage, which recently has become even more embarrassing.

 

Maybe you should go off and support Chelsea or someone who can meet your unrealistic expectations?

[something else]

Going by Lord Tanamo's wee flag and its associations, I would surmise he is happy to do down the Scottish game.

Stopped reading after this you utter cock.

[Izett]

It's scottish football in general is the main cause of this, not only clubs but also the national team. If they were to get past the qualifying stages more people would most likely become interested in the sport again. The SPFL needs a complete reshuffle as right now its a shambles.

[Happy Dosser]

 

"Stopped reading after this you utter cock."

 

Yes, that's what to do: come on to a forum and not read the post.

 

But thanks for your contribution anyway.

[underboyleheating]

Going by Lord Tanamo's wee flag and its associations, I would surmise he is happy to do down the Scottish game.

I am not a Unionist, however, I don’t see why you think an avatar would make any difference to Lord Tanamo’s opinions.

[Happy Dosser]

Fair enough in isolation, UBH. I just find the criticisms of our club and the national game continually negative. I struggle to think of what more a club like ourselves, with such a small core support, could do. You either believe in our national game or you don't. We are up against enormous financial forces beyond our control and a history of mismanagement of our national game from the unimaginative blazer mentality.

 

The feeble media coverage of our game reinforces the "We are crap" idea which I just don't accept.

 

I don't parade my political convictions in an avatar because in the first instance I don't think them relevant. However, unremitting negativity in that context does suggest an agenda.

[superward]

Many fans go on about a drop in quality but what are you comparing the standard with? If the comparison is limited to our own team, we've had a damn good sides in recent years, last season excepted. I can recall some absolutely dire teams in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. The team under Alex McLeish was so bad I stopped going for several weeks. In more recent times, Maurice Malpas's side wasn't exactly world class. The current team is way superior to some of these dreadful sides. If its Scottish football in general then it depends on which teams you want to include in the comparison. Celtic are probably poorer as is Dundee United. However Hearts, Aberdeen, Ross County, Inverness and St Johnstone are probably at their strongest they've been in recent times.

 

No. I'd say our current team isn't that bad.

My point was about the game, as in Scottish football, in general. Compared to 5, 10 and 15 years ago the quality overall has definitely dropped. The quality of player in general has dropped. My opinion only but I don't think that's just rose tinted specs.

 

There are teams that have got worse then better again granted but for me it feels the overall quality and skill on show is less than it was which I think is a reason for the decline. People want to see a good football match, not just a competitive one, between 2 poor teams. Especially at the price we pay....which is another point...