Raoul_Duke Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35097223 On behalf of this Motherwell fan a massive Fuck You very much Jean-Marc Bosman, cunt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I have no problem with Bosman's actions,as he was very honest and open about what he was doing. He made very clear that that he wasn't on any kind of crusade to help others or rectify wrongs. He didn't give a jot about the effect on football or clubs. He was pursuing change purely out of self interest nothing more nothing less. Now I don't agree with him but thats another matter. I just wish other folk would be as honest as he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul_Duke Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Still a cunt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 How can you not agree with him? Why should players be tied to a club for longer than the length of their contract? It's incredible that clubs got away with it for so long. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 How can you not agree with him? People have a right not to agree with him and I think he himself would accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 No doubt it was the changing point in football as we know it - but I firmly believe the influence of Sky TV and other broadcasters, plus the emergence of agent power, has done a thousand times more damage to our game than Bosman ever did. The Bosman principle is correct for me. Players should not be tied to a club out with a contract. But that rightful decision opened the doors to the greed and corruption that is rife at the very top of the game and set football on its current path that will eventually end in complete and utter implosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I don't think Bosman's original complaint was wrong - some clubs were abusing the system and refusing to let players leave after their contract expired unless they received an acceptable fee. It was the reaction to his grievance that screwed football. A more equitable solution e.g. fees settled by a tribunal, could have been a good half measure and kept money in the game for smaller clubs. It definitely had a negative effect on club and international squads for a number of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 No doubt it was the changing point in football as we know it - but I firmly believe the influence of Sky TV and other broadcasters, plus the emergence of agent power, has done a thousand times more damage to our game than Bosman ever did. The Bosman principle is correct for me. Players should not be tied to a club out with a contract. But that rightful decision opened the doors to the greed and corruption that is rife at the very top of the game and set football on its current path that will eventually end in complete and utter implosion. Players and managers want it both ways. They insist on contracts and getting paid when they aren't performing, and want to be able to leave whenever they can when they throw a strop and hand in a transfer request. Maybe we should go the whole hog and not have contracts for player. Just do what most of us have to do and pay them a monthly salary and if they don't perform they get a month's notice and shown the door. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 How anyone can disagree with the Bosman ruling is beyond me. I'd love to hear the argument to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Players and managers want it both ways. They insist on contracts and getting paid when they aren't performing, and want to be able to leave whenever they can when they throw a strop and hand in a transfer request. Maybe we should go the whole hog and not have contracts for player. Just do what most of us have to do and pay them a monthly salary and if they don't perform they get a month's notice and shown the door. That would have been a great advantage for us over the past couple of seasons...our entrance lobby would have been constantly packed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 People have a right not to agree with him and I think he himself would accept that. You've got the right to do lots of stupid things. Anybody who thinks it's a good idea for their employer to stop paying them but be able to dictate where they can work and diminish their value as an employee by demanding compensation is mentally challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 People have a right not to agree with him and I think he himself would accept that. He's not saying you can't agree with him, he's asking why you do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Anybody who thinks it's a good idea for their employer to stop paying them but be able to dictate where they can work and diminish their value as an employee by demanding compensation is mentally challenged. An equally subjective and selective, but opposite, view might read something along the lines of "Anybody who thinks its a good idea for small clubs to get smaller and big clubs to get bigger and that clubs should bring in more foreign players at the expense of home grown talent" is delusional". However both this and your comments are deficiently, and poorly set out; and somewhat bombastic in tone. In truth I believe that the answer lies somewhere between the 2 extremes. The first thing we need to understand is that employment of footballers is unlike normal employment. Under the old system there were injustices ie clubs holding onto players on long deals and unwilling to let them move on. I quite understand and accept that. Some clubs, most famously Dundee United, abused this. So change to protect individual’s rights was quite in order. It is the way in which it was implemented that has done harm to the game. The Bosman ruling has had a number of unintended consequences and these can be summarised as below: · Small clubs become smaller/poorer and big clubs get bigger/richer – the now famous spears V nuclear warheads argument. · Big clubs can snap up good players from smaller clubs for nothing. · Players can demand higher salaries as no transfer fees are payable. · An ending of the foreign players cap to the disadvantage of home grown talent. · Salary levels for the top players have been totally unsustainable · Much needed money has been lost to the game through agents. As Wee Yin has said, some kind of expanded compensation scheme should have been implemented. If a player leaves a small club, or indeed any club, that club should be entitled to a cut of all future transfer fees. That would prevent a club like ours losing a player for say £100,000 who 2 years later moves to an English Premiership Club for £2,000,000. That would protect the game at all levels. As it is small clubs have had to cut back and that inevitably has meant a reduction in squad numbers. So, good players, especially the top ones, have really benefitted whilst their less talented colleagues have suffered. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianc Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 And 37 years ago something more sinister. The start of do everything for Rangers. Ok not even to the month but this is nearer home. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19780419&id=QcpAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=waUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4219,4263453&hl=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 The first thing we need to understand is that employment of footballers is unlike normal employment. No it's not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcguru Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 No it's not. Correct. Always amazes me people somehow think professional football for some unfathomable reason is beyond the reach of the law in terms of violent conduct or employment law or anything else for that matter. Not a lawyer but I defo presume UK and EU Employment law applies to footballers' contracts. Why wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul_Duke Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Correct. Always amazes me people somehow think professional football for some unfathomable reason is beyond the reach of the law in terms of violent conduct or employment law or anything else for that matter. Not a lawyer but I defo presume UK and EU Employment law applies to footballers' contracts. Why wouldn't it? What other profession has a transfer market where vast sums of cash are spent? Football is different from the normal world! If EU and UK employment law applied to football, then players would be able to hand in a months notice and resign? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 This is interesting, I have often wondered how and why footballers are treated differently (cos they are) and what effect EU laws would have on footballers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 If EU and UK employment law applied to football, then players would be able to hand in a months notice and resign? No? They can't do that because of the type of contract football uses. They could resign but they wouldn't be able to sign for another club during the period of their contract. Transfer fees are between clubs and not really anything to do with players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul_Duke Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 https://gclaw.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/player-contracts-football-transfers-v-european-union-law-analysis/ An interesting read and if the EU bureaucrats get their way it really would put the last nail in the coffin for small clubs like us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 No it's not. Oh yes it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul_Duke Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 They can't do that because of the type of contract football uses. They could resign but they wouldn't be able to sign for another club during the period of their contract. Transfer fees are between clubs and not really anything to do with players. So what your saying is the type of contract football uses is different from that used in the employment of other workers. So "employment of footballers is unlike normal employment." Make your mind up Steelboy! If transfer fees were only between the clubs and nothing to do with the players, then why do they get signing on fees written into their contracts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 So what your saying is the type of contract football uses is different from that used in the employment of other workers. So "employment of footballers is unlike normal employment." Make your mind up Steelboy! If transfer fees were only between the clubs and nothing to do with the players, then why do they get signing on fees written into their contracts! Quite right Raoul. Not only that but some players have clauses in their contract allowing them the right to move if bids of a certain value are received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcguru Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 What other profession has a transfer market where vast sums of cash are spent? Football is different from the normal world! If EU and UK employment law applied to football, then players would be able to hand in a months notice and resign? No? Footballers, even in junior football may get a sign-on fee, in business people get a "golden hello", same thing really. An initial payment over and above salary to go with a new employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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