Hearts V Motherwell Sat 16 January

[milo]

Can't remember the last 6-0. It's a thankfully rare score line to lose by. Hibs beat us 6-1 in the Malpas season but they were a great team and that was our, until last season, worst team most of us have seen. There have obviously been quite a few 5-0 and 5-1 defeats over the years but in fairness we've dished out a few hidings as well.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Watt was sitting amongst the Motherwell fans today so that to me was that he wasn't even in the squad? Didn't have the tracky on as far as I could see either

Aye, McGhee seems to rotate his bench. I thought Watt was going to get a chance after getting drafted on at Parkhead but it's not materialised.

 

If McGhee fancied Law in midfield, Watt (or indeed Kennedy) seems like an obvious choice over Chalmers and the Hammell reshuffle.

[Shaka]

 

He didn't change a settled defence because he wanted to, he changed it because he had to make changes. He tried something, it didn't work, move on. We have very, very few options outside our strongest XI and he was damned if he didn't, and damned if he did, going to maybe the hardest ground in the country to get a result. Do you think we'd be sitting here with 3 points if Louis Laing had played in midfield or if Jack Leitch had replaced Grimshaw. I'm going to speculate we would still have got a drubbing, making those simple mistakes, showing that attitude and playing against a good team in what is to all extends and purposes a fortress for them.

 

As for 100% blame, its never anyone to blame 100%. We put out eleven players today who we are all paying for and they got absolutely steamrollered. The players need to put up their hands over this as well.

 

Hardly McGhee's fault we gave away two penalties, couldn't win headers in the box etc.

 

Just please do me a favour and think back a couple of months.

he didnt need to move Hammell and Law wjen he had suitable options in Laing,Cadden or Leitch who couldve played mid. And to not even bother changing it when we were 3-0 down after 20 mins was shocking as well. We may have still lost had we swapped Ainsworth & Laing for Las & Grimshaw but you can pretty much guarantee it wouldnt be the single biggest defeat any team in the spl has endured this season!

[Lobey_Dosser]

Can't remember the last 6-0. It's a thankfully rare score line to lose by. Hibs beat us 6-1 in the Malpas season but they were a great team and that was our, until last season, worst team most of us have seen. There have obviously been quite a few 5-0 and 5-1 defeats over the years but in fairness we've dished out a few hidings as well.

Aye we've had the 6-1s to Hibs, Rangers and Dundee United iirc. Unless I've blocked something out, this is our biggest defeat since the Celtic 7-1.

 

Hopefully we get a chance to make amends against Hearts in the Scottish Cup.

[casey]

Lost 6-0 at Ibrox in McCalls first game there in 2012 I think...

[casey]

2011 I meant

[The African]

Well if there were any doubt that we needed to bring in a couple of ew players, then hopefully this dispels it. I fear that Grimshaw will be difficult to replace but we need to try. Our good run is over with a crash and we can only hope that there isn't a hangover for the County game.

[underboyleheating]

To lose 6-0 to a fellow premiership side shouldn’t be tolerated and it shows that we have a long way to go before we can say that we have turned a corner under Mark McGhee. I know we had to reshuffle due to the loss of Grimshaw and Lasley’s suspension, however, there were still a few experienced heads in our side today and there can be no excuses.

[bogsideloyal]

Hopefully next week we see hammell and law back in their best positions

 

Why was their a boy put out by stewards after hearts 2nd goal?

[Pepper]

Just watching the highlights on alba the now.

 

Debatable if their first was actually over the line and I think the pen was a dive. Sow's chopped off goal looked onside though.

[Jacol]

Just watching the highlights on alba the now.

 

Debatable if their first was actually over the line and I think the pen was a dive. Sow's chopped off goal looked onside though.

I didn't think at the game the first goal was over the line but thought the lack of protest by our players showed that it must be a goal. Having watched it back now I'm convinced it wasn't in.

[Pepper]

McDonald and Fletcher should both have scored. Alexander's touch may have put McDonald off slightly and the bobbly pitch didn't help Fletcher but both should still have put them away and at 3 - 2 it's game on.

 

Our defending for the goals in the second half in particular was disgusting.

[BigWeegieDosser]

A team selection that beggared belief

A team that clearly got exactly what they believed they were going to get

A very bad day at the office.

MAKE MISTAKES

LEARN FROM THEM

MOVE ON

[Gadgey]

There's some right stoaters bouncing about this forum tonight!!!

 

Yes, McGhee made some bad decisions in his team selection but all today has highlighted for me is despite us having a relatively large squad in size, there is a very limited depth of ability for any manager to choose from.

 

It's not the first time that Hammil or Chalmers have been played out of position in Motherwell colours. If I recall rightly, Chalmers was touted as being capable of playing anywhere along the back four when he signed for us?

 

Equally, have people forgotten that Josh Law was signed as a midfielder? Indeed, it wasn't that long ago that this forum was alight wi folk banging on about how he was NEVER a right back???

 

It's easy to pick names from the squad and ask why they weren't played (like Kennedy who we were also led to believe could play right back when signed) but without any inside knowledge, it's purely conjecture based upon opinion and in some cases prejudices.

 

Some folk need to chill. The real test is how the squad respond to that today.

 

Yes, today was a gubbing but in most respects, it was one of those games where everything went right for hearts and dreadfully wrong for us. Their first two goals being perfect examples.

 

Yes, Motherwell were rudderless. Yes, their marking was shocking. Yes, Ripley had a 'mare and Yes, it all coincided with a particularly 'at it' hearts team. Shit lack that can happen and has happened with slimmer defeats and also in our favour in not too distant past.

 

But for me, other than the opposition in particularly punishing form, it was a return to the all too familiar form of August through to perhaps mid November. Which tells me that the squad needs an overhaul and that will take time and patience.

 

I hope we manage to get at least one competent midfielder in this window. If we do, mid table and even top six is achievable.

 

If we don't, then that lack of squad depth will have us nervously looking at results elsewhere from week to week.

[Andy_P]

I took advantage of the scoreline to catch an earlier and direct bus back to Bargeddie so happily I missed out on goals five and six, although suffering the first four was plenty as it was.

 

I think almost all were cautious beforehand but we were certainly culpable in our own downfall.

 

I do find it slighty ironic that we spent the week ahead of the Cove game hearing how we wouldn't be experimenting, wouldn't be playing fringe players, would stick to our tried and trusted and yet just seven days later we are witnessing a left-back of nearly 15 years shunted across to play right-back to accommodate a right back playing in central midfield all to avoid playing the central midfielder sitting in the dugout and another one in the stand. It seemed questionable even before the game and appears madness in retrospect. But it set the set tone.

 

It would be quite a claim to suggest that Cadden or Leitch being involved from the off would have resulted in us winning the game but I'd wager that Cadden or Leitch being involved alongside Hammell and Law playing in their spots would have considerably increased our chances of avoiding a 6-0 drubbing - and I dare say either of the two of them would have benefited more from the experience.

 

I saw echoes of the first game up there where Hearts were extremely clinical when the chances came their way. By contrast when we carved out any, and there were actually three or four decent chances of the kind we've been putting away of late, we fluffed our lines.

 

After such a horrible start, leaving aside whether they were or weren't questionable goals or penalties, we did well to get to half-time just the three down. I think some credit is due for the attitude shown in the early part of the second half where there at least seemed the desire for us to (cliche alert) "win the half". It seems however that when the fourth went in the floodgates opened.

 

For me today it was collectively poor from both the team on the park and the management off it and the sheer extent of the loss casts some doubt as to the future. We could have gone up there, lost by a couple and nobody would have minded that much. It's Hearts away after all and we're couple of midfielders light. But a six goal hiding has the potential to really knock you off course if the reaction to it is not the correct one and immediate results don't go some way to redressing the failure.

 

Big one next week now.

[sinjy]

I cant fathom McGhee's thinking today. It is not as if Chalmers is a star who has been injured and deserved to return immediately to the team as soon as he was fit. Yet McGhee makes two positional switches so that he can be brought back. Chalmers is a poorer left back than Hammell. Hammell is poorer than Law at right back and Law is a poor midfielder. If we do not have a centre midfielder who can come into the side in these circumstances then it is vital we get at least one and preferably two in during the window. Las is 35 and Pearson is injury prone. We cant expect them both to play well and fit for the next five months.

I hope McGhee was playing it cool in his post match interview when he did not seem enthusiastic when he was asked about any new arrivals before the Ross County game.

[Tweed]

Think we all know McGhee got it wrong today. We haven't changed our team for six weeks then today the absence of two saw us shuffle four around shows you little he trusts any of the other candidates to play in midfield. We got absolutely steamrollered through the middle and our defence is nowhere near good enough to stand up to continuous pressure and it showed. McGhee has a job on now to get these guys believing again because next Saturday is now a right big game.

[Kmcalpin]

I hope McGhee was playing it cool in his post match interview when he did not seem enthusiastic when he was asked about any new arrivals before the Ross County game.

I'm not overly bothered if our manager jumps up and down and starts roaring and bawling at players; in fact I'd rather they didn't. Mark McGhee has said himself he's not that kind of manager. I'd far rather they kept cool and calm and focused on how the team played, learnt lessons and remained cold and calculating. He is perfectly well aware that the central midfield needs strengthened and said as much last year.

 

Its also sobering that we lost 3 goals against Accies when both Grimshaw and Lasley played. For some years now our midfield simply hasn't been right defensively and its high time that was rectified.

[ropy]

Why did Hammell not tell McGhee he had the line up wrong. I guarantee that he knew before the match started.

[Kmcalpin]

Think we all know McGhee got it wrong today. We haven't changed our team for six weeks then today the absence of two saw us shuffle four around shows you little he trusts any of the other candidates to play in midfield.

Good post. Watching his players week in week out he must have arrived at that conclusion for a reason.

[Neil]

Why did Hammell not tell McGhee he had the line up wrong. I guarantee that he knew before the match started.

Because McGhee is the manager and he isn't.

[Tweed]

Its also sobering that we lost 3 goals against Accies when both Grimshaw and Lasley played. For some years now our midfield simply hasn't been right defensively and its high time that was rectified.

 

Until the last two games our overall defensive records has been perfectly acceptable, in fact for most of the season it has been our failure to score goals that has cost us points. The things is we didn't defend that badly against Hamilton, we lost goals to a once in a lifetime whack by MacKinnon, a freak penalty and a soft free kick (which granted we defended badly).

 

Yesterday was different as the way we played, Hearts just ran over the top of us. We might have got away with Lasley and Grimshaw missing against a different opponent but the team we played against probably include central midfield as their strongest area of the pitch, played well and were given loads of encouragement.

 

I don't know how he does it but he needs to find a couple of players who can play in there who by moving doesn't change our whole team.

[MelvinBragg]

Good post. Watching his players week in week out he must have arrived at that conclusion for a reason.

If he's arrived at the conclusion that playing Hammell at right back and Josh Law in midfield is a better option than Leitch or Cadden in midfield, then whether he watches them in training all week or not, I'd have to question his judgement and perhaps his sanity...

[ropy]

Hearts were bigger and stronger than us, at times it seemed there were more of them too!

[sbcmfc]

Having watched the highlights, I can't disagree that the team was all wrong!

 

As most of you have said, we were weakened in one area by the loss of Lasley and Grimshaw, but weakened the full team by shuffling the defence to accommodate joe chalmers, who has yet to convince me he wants to be at fir park. Putting Law in midfield (it's Tom Hateley all over again! A competent right back, out his depth in midfield!), Hammell looked like a fish out of water at right back, but I also thought McManus looked lost too!

 

The experienced players let us down a bit I thought (based on the Alba highlights), Hammell can be cut some slack, as he was clearly uncomfortable at RB, but McManus was charging about like a headless chicken in the 1st half and Pearson looked a bit lethargic and didn't get tackles in.

 

All in, I was concerned about the lack of bite in midfield and that was always going to be our downfall. 6-0 wasn't ideal, but as Mark McGhee once said, much to the annoyance of the Aberdeen fans "it's only 3 points".

 

(We need a replacement for Grimshaw ASAP though!)