Yabba's Turd Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Another tough fixture after yesterday's embarrassment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MearnsWell Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 County weak at the back by all accounts listening to today's game, trying to re-sign the Coltness Cafu back from Aberdeen, maybe back in time for Saturday. Let's revert to our normal back 4, put Las back in middle with Pearo, and hopefully we'll have enough up front with Skippy and Moult to shade it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 County weak at the back by all accounts listening to today's game, trying to re-sign the Coltness Cafu back from Aberdeen, maybe back in time for Saturday. Let's revert to our normal back 4, put Las back in middle with Pearo, and hopefully we'll have enough up front with Skippy and Moult to shade it. The back 4 should revert to its normal set up agreed. If we play two in the middle though they'll take us with a bit to spare as they are a powerful, fit team who work very hard off the ball to close opponents down. The big question for me is who else we play in the middle. Is it too much to ask for that we sign a Grimshaw replacement before Saturday? As things stand I think Laing would be the most likely answer to our problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacol Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 The back 4 should revert to its normal set up agreed. If we play two in the middle though they'll take us with a bit to spare as they are a powerful, fit team who work very hard off the ball to close opponents down. The big question for me is who else we play in the middle. Is it too much to ask for that we sign a Grimshaw replacement before Saturday? As things stand I think Laing would be the most likely answer to our problem. I think Laing would have been a better option yesterday at least would have given the defence some cover. But I think next week start with Ainsworth on the right but playing as the out ball role and have Johnson tucking in on the left as he offers slightly more physicality than Ainsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 We cant play Ainsworth and Johnson in the same team ever again. I'd try Laing in midfield but keeping ma fingers crossed we've got a decent midfielder on loan for sat. As for the game 2-2 draw. We always have a tough game against em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 We cant play Ainsworth and Johnson in the same team ever again. We can but only on the very rare occasions on which we are the stronger team and are on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 We can but only on the very rare occasions on which we are the stronger team and are on top. Just had a look at it there and we've started with Ainsworth and Johnson 9 times 8 times in the league this season and lost 7 of them 6 of them. The two wins came against Thistle at Fir Park in September and Killie at Rugby Park in October. There's a reasonable argument for them playing in a 433/451 with 3 central midfielders but it'd obviously mean dropping one of the strikers. What is almost certainly the case is that we clearly shouldn't be playing them as wide players in a 442. Edit: it's actually 8 and 6 losses not as my original post 12th Aug - Hearts (L) 15th Aug - Aberdeen (L) 22nd Aug - St Johnstone (L) 26th Sept - Partick Thistle (W) 31st Oct - Kilmarnock (W) 7th Nov - ICT (L) 21st Nov - Ross County (L)* 16th Jan - Hearts (L) * noting Johnson was playing left back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Another tough game, if we hadn’t lost so heavily to Hearts I might have been more confident of winning this one, however, now I am not so sure. Fuck it, 2-1 to the good guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 There's a reasonable argument for them playing in a 433/451 with 3 central midfielders but it'd obviously mean dropping one of the strikers. What is almost certainly the case is that we clearly shouldn't be playing them as wide players in a 442. I said the exact same thing before the first play off game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I said the exact same thing before the first play off game. Curiously the 2 play off games are really the only time it's worked effectively and in those fixtures McDonald was dropped a bit deeper so it was hardly a 442. At the tail end of last season we won 2 (Accies at Fir Park, St Mirren at Fir Park) and lost 1 with them both starting the rest of the games had one starting and one coming off the bench. Anyway, with regards Ross County having watched (and enjoyed) their game on the telly earlier a couple of thoughts: - they'll be without Boyce who's injured - Jonny Hayes had a lot of joy on Aberdeen's left attacking County's full back Reckord - they are what they are a team who play 442 and are pretty open and in truth cede possession a lot. The main thing about them really is their physicality and work rate. They're a decent enough team, moreso when Jackson Irvine's playing (I'm not sure why they started with him on the bench today) however they're by no means world beaters and they just lost a game they were a goal up in playing against 10 men for more than half the game. Though equally we just taken a 6-0 bleaching ourselves. Looking at their season so far it's been patchy since mid-October. They only lost 3 of their first 11 however since then they've lost 8 of 12 with 4 wins. Also they've only won 2 away all season (Kille, Accies). Assuming McGhee manages to pick the team up after yesterday's shambles and reverts back to the sort of team that was doing well of late and actually plays players in their proper positions then there's no reason why we can't get back on track. Obviously the main thing for us is getting midfield sorted out and being honest I'd much rather see an actual midfielder like Cadden in alongside Pearson and Lasley than hoping we can fit Ainsworth in there or sticking Josh Law into midfield. If all goes to plan then I'd hope we can do alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Bremner Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Back to usual back 4 Lasley back in mid obviously lets hope mcghee maybe either put cadden in the midfield 3 or drop ainsworth and put dom at wing or maybe i think his names mclean at wing sick to the back teeth of ainsworth not performing unless we are 3-0 up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Back to usual back 4 Lasley back in mid obviously lets hope mcghee maybe either put cadden in the midfield 3 or drop ainsworth and put dom at wing or maybe i think his names mclean at wing sick to the back teeth of ainsworth not performing unless we are 3-0 up Maclean is out injured I think. Fractured his shoulder in the 20s cup game against Kilmarnock in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Bremner Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Maclean is out injured I think. Fractured his shoulder in the 20s cup game against Kilmarnock in December. Then dom thomas failing that pull big jim bob out the east stand like it says above sick to the back teeth of ainsworth not trying theres bout 3 thousand well fans there very week who would love nothing more than to play for that badge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Lasley will be back for this and surely Hammell and Law will be in their right positons and Chalmers his (the POD Stand) which leaves us with the decision of who to replace Grimshaw with. Like at Tynecastle I would start with the team as it has been starting of late replacing the player that is no longer here with the next best option (Leitch or Cadden in this instance) and leaving the rest the fuck alone! We have 5 games in a row now in reasonably quick succession (Ross County, Dundee, Thistle, Killie and Utd) which I would class as "must not lose". Utd in particular is a "must win". Failure to win that one would be a bigger disaster and embarrassment than what happened at Tynecastle!! I'm not greedy though and like to think my expectations are realistic so I think 7 to 9 points minimum from these games should be our target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Lasley will be back for this and surely Hammell and Law will be in their right positons and Chalmers his (the POD Stand) which leaves us with the decision of who to replace Grimshaw with. Like at Tynecastle I would start with the team as it has been starting of late replacing the player that is no longer here with the next best option (Leitch or Cadden in this instance) and leaving the rest the fuck alone! Very much my view as well. As much as I like Ainsworth (and I do) it doesn't help anyone trying to turn him into something he's not. He's a winger, with pace and on his day he can be a hugely effective one. He's not a central midfielder. We know that playing two wingers leaves the 2 central midfielders exposed so don't do it. We've found a system that gets the best out of one winger in Johnson and whilst the other options beyond Lasley and Pearson may not be like for like with Grimshaw someone like Cadden should be fine playing alongside those more experienced players. Even when we started to pick up a bit of form at the tail end of last year though the eye-catching results (Accies, St Mirren & play-offs) had Ainsworth and Johnson starting the other wins (ICT, Killie x 2) were with one winger and Conor Grant in midfield which was a bit over-shadowed by the fact that it seemed we weren't getting the best out of Grant in that position and also the fact that when they were on it Ainsworth and Johnson destroyed a couple of teams. Against a team like County if we're going to get anything we need to compete in the centre of the park. Having an extra man in there allows us to press and hopefully give us a better chance of collecting the second ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Lasley will be back for this and surely Hammell and Law will be in their right positons and Chalmers his (the POD Stand) which leaves us with the decision of who to replace Grimshaw with. Like at Tynecastle I would start with the team as it has been starting of late replacing the player that is no longer here with the next best option (Leitch or Cadden in this instance) and leaving the rest the fuck alone! We have 5 games in a row now in reasonably quick succession (Ross County, Dundee, Thistle, Killie and Utd) which I would class as "must not lose". Utd in particular is a "must win". Failure to win that one would be a bigger disaster and embarrassment than what happened at Tynecastle!! I'm not greedy though and like to think my expectations are realistic so I think 7 to 9 points minimum from these games should be our target. Agree with most of that, but the available evidence suggests that Leitch won't feature. If we go down this route, then I'd expect Laing or Cadden to step into the breach. It would be great though to bring in a new central midfielder before the game. What the management team will also be weighing up is the midfield mix - assuming Lasley, Pearo and Johnson start what kind of player do we want to play alongside them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Agree with most of that, but the available evidence suggests that Leitch won't feature. If we go down this route, then I'd expect Laing or Cadden to step into the breach. It would be great though to bring in a new central midfielder before the game. What the management team will also be weighing up is the midfield mix - assuming Lasley, Pearo and Johnson start what kind of player do we want to play alongside them? What Grimshaw brought was a willingness to get stuck in, energy, drive and a calmness on the ball. I think the final quality may be a big ask but I reckon the first three could certainly be provided by one of our young players. If McLean weren't injured, he'd have been my choice but I'd be happy with either Cadden or Leitch in there. I tend to agree with you that Leitch (fairly or unfairly) seems out of the picture so on that basis, I'd hope to see Cadden there on Saturday. I read on here that apparently McGhee has said that the youngsters will get more game time if we reach 40 points. To me, this is a nonsense. You learn more about these players when the game means something. Erwin and Watt last season and Hall this season have come in when we need results and have performed well. Particularly this Saturday, when Lasley will be back to help a young player through the game, it seems an ideal opportunity to give someone a chance. Hall got his chance because McGhee felt there wasn't anyone better in that position. If that applies to a crucial position like centre back, why not midfield? Surely better than the bizarre decisions that were made on Saturday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Based on a few visits to the u20s and watching the highlights each week, Cadden seems the obvious candidate to take on the Grimshaw role on the right of midfield. He's a good athlete with decent technique and vision. I can only assume the management team don't think he is ready for the intensity of first team football... Think it's safe to say Leitch has no future at the club, not surprising really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Based on a few visits to the u20s and watching the highlights each week, Cadden seems the obvious candidate to take on the Grimshaw role on the right of midfield. He's a good athlete with decent technique and vision. I can only assume the management team don't think he is ready for the intensity of first team football... Think it's safe to say Leitch has no future at the club, not surprising really. Not surprising, why? I don't get to see much U20s action, has he gone backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Leitch hasn't featured regularly for the under 20s either his younger brother is always included in the squad mostly on the bench, Jack played last week against Killie but that was the first time for a wee while he had played for the under 20s so I think he is either way out the picture or McGhee simply doesn't rate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Leitch hasn't featured regularly for the under 20s either his younger brother is always included in the squad mostly on the bench, Jack played last week against Killie but that was the first time for a wee while he had played for the under 20s so I think he is either way out the picture or McGhee simply doesn't rate him. McGhee doesn't pick the U20s side. Craigan does. Was speaking to someone who works at the club and knows JL really well. Said he's had a fair few injury niggles since recovering from his operation and they've held him back from being able to train properly etc. I wouldn't write him off quite so easily yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Not surprising, why? I don't get to see much U20s action, has he gone backwards? He's just never looked up to it in my opinion. Forbes had quality on the ball, Carswell could get about the park but ultimately neither were capable of making it at this level. Not sure what Leitch offers, admittedly he's never had a long enough run to prove otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Reaction required in this one. Not only from Saturday, but also from the horrendous performance we put in up in Dingwall in November. Play players where they should be played, and go from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 He's just never looked up to it in my opinion. Forbes had quality on the ball, Carswell could get about the park but ultimately neither were capable of making it at this level. Not sure what Leitch offers, admittedly he's never had a long enough run to prove otherwise.You see, to me, the criticisms of Leitch stack up as follows... Not quick enough. Not strong/physically imposing enough. Doesn't score enough goals. Late in the tackle so picks up bookings. No real range of passing (I disagree with this one but it's said of him). All criticisms that could be levelled at someone who has played over 350 games in Motherwell's midfield. Does Leitch have Lasley's positional sense? No, but if you listen to some on here (aye, I'm looking at you, Dave), that might be no bad thing. Not saying Leitch should be viewed as a future regular first team starter, but it makes me laugh when people talk about signing cover for Lasley and Pearson. With the description of Leitch above, he seems ideal cover for Lasley. Moving away from Leitch specifically, it seems odd to me (and maybe this merits a thread of its own) that as fans, and managers have recently seemed to feel the same, we are either looking for our youth setup to provide first team regulars and the occasional player we can sell or that player is not deemed good enough. There seems no scope for a player coming through simply to become a squad player yet we are happy to bring in players to provide cover. In the current climate, would Jamie Dolan have had the chance to become a first team regular as he was at least 23 before he made a place in the team his own...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 You see, to me, the criticisms of Leitch stack up as follows... Not quick enough. Not strong/physically imposing enough. Doesn't score enough goals. Late in the tackle so picks up bookings. No real range of passing (I disagree with this one but it's said of him). All criticisms that could be levelled at someone who has played over 350 games in Motherwell's midfield. Does Leitch have Lasley's positional sense? No, but if you listen to some on here (aye, I'm looking at you, Dave), that might be no bad thing. Not saying Leitch should be viewed as a future regular first team starter, but it makes me laugh when people talk about signing cover for Lasley and Pearson. With the description of Leitch above, he seems ideal cover for Lasley. Moving away from Leitch specifically, it seems odd to me (and maybe this merits a thread of its own) that as fans, and managers have recently seemed to feel the same, we are either looking for our youth setup to provide first team regulars and the occasional player we can sell or that player is not deemed good enough. There seems no scope for a player coming through simply to become a squad player yet we are happy to bring in players to provide cover. In the current climate, would Jamie Dolan have had the chance to become a first team regular as he was at least 23 before he made a place in the team his own...? I was convinced by Lasley from his debut at Ibrox. It quickly became evident that he wasn't scared to get tore in and was decent enough carrying the ball forward. He made big impressions in numerous games, playing his part in running the midfield against good Rangers and Celtic teams during his first spell. Think he'd have progressed even quicker at Motherwell if it wasn't for Butcher playing him out in the right. There's nothing wrong in developing youngsters that provide little more than adequate backup. Personally I don't think Leitch reaches that level from what I've seen, whether that's been due to injuries I don't know. Maybe he's someone that needs to go down the Craigan route and work his way back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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