weeyin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Just watched the highlights, as others have said , penalty is a ridiculous decision.Players will keep chucking themselves in the box , as long as there are refs gullible enough to buy it.Even if Cadden did touch the player , which I doubt, it wasn't a foul , he has eyes on the ball and has back to the Dundee player.The Dundee player has thrown himself down , it's the last 2 mins of the game , thinking you never know....... And that's why I have just a tiny bit of sympathy with the refs - only a tiny bit though. The behaviour of some players with their diving and moaning and general cheating makes it more difficult than it should be for the refs. And that starts with the managers. Still a ridiculous decision, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Just watched the highlights, as others have said , penalty is a ridiculous decision.Players will keep chucking themselves in the box , as long as there are refs gullible enough to buy it.Even if Cadden did touch the player , which I doubt, it wasn't a foul , he has eyes on the ball and has back to the Dundee player.The Dundee player has thrown himself down , it's the last 2 mins of the game , thinking you never know....... If we start to push out and defend further up the park when trying to see a game out then we wont give the opposition players the chance to look for a penalty. The standard of referees in scotland is shocking so why give them a decision to make, see out the game in the other teams half if we had done that recently we would be 4 points better off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire Greats Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 And that's why I have just a tiny bit of sympathy with the refs - only a tiny bit though. The behaviour of some players with their diving and moaning and general cheating makes it more difficult than it should be for the refs. And that starts with the managers. Still a ridiculous decision, though. Fair dues, but there are some "challenges" that are harder to call than others....that one v Dundee wasn't a difficult decision, if he can't see a boy throwing himself down as a last resort in a nothing challenge, he shouldn't be doing the job. Wouldn't want to be a ref , it's a thankless task , but we have had at least 3 dubious pens against us this year, I can think of.The only one that you could argue was technically a pen was Lasley v Hamilton , and it wasn't exactly a stonewaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire Greats Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 On the subject of dodgy pens.The one Hibs got v St Johnstone looked very dodgy also , but harder to call than the one we lost .Refs need to be a bit shrewder .Video technology for big decisions would be an asset, as I said, their jobs are not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I can't see any reason not to have video replays available to refs. Could use the system they have in tennis where each team has 3 appeals for video per match and they loose one if they are appealing wrongly. Would make players more honest too if they see their manager is about to use up one of their teams replays for a foul they committed they might be more inclined to stick their hand up and say "naw I did catch him" or whatever the incident may be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 If we start to push out and defend further up the park when trying to see a game out then we wont give the opposition players the chance to look for a penalty. The standard of referees in scotland is shocking so why give them a decision to make, see out the game in the other teams half if we had done that recently we would be 4 points better off. Thats my idea of defending. Limit the opposition to 1 or 2 very long range shots at most and gobble up any desperate high balls slung into the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 On the subject of dodgy pens.The one Hibs got v St Johnstone looked very dodgy also , but harder to call than the one we lost .Refs need to be a bit shrewder .Video technology for big decisions would be an asset, as I said, their jobs are not easy. Tbf, even after looking at the various replays of that one, I'm still not sure whether it was or wasn't a penalty. Certainly the Hibs player was looking for it, but if you're slinging a leg out like that, then yeah, it probably is. Ours just wasn't a penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Cadden's in the paper saying he made contact with the man. On that basis it is a penalty and the ref (who I don't rate at all) was only a couple of yards away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Cadden's in the paper saying he made contact with the man. On that basis it is a penalty and the ref (who I don't rate at all) was only a couple of yards away. To be honest, the first time I watched it, even having heard it was never a penalty and expecting that to be clearly the case, it did look to me like Holt kicked the ball, and Cadden kicked Holt's foot. Totally unintentional though it was, and as much as a meal as Holt made of it, if that's what actually happened then I suppose it was technically a foul, albeit an incredibly soft one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 So, every time a player makes contact with an opponent who has got to the ball a split second beforehand its deemed a foul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotts Well Fan Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 “Looking at it there, it’s not a penalty,” conceded Dundee manager Paul Hartley, whose side crept back into the top six as a result of it. “ In today's Herald 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 So, every time a player makes contact with an opponent who has got to the ball a split second beforehand its deemed a foul? Only if the referee considers the contact was made "carelessly, recklessly or with excessive force". And they're all pretty vague terms that basically mean we're always going to have annoying inconsistencies and bad decisions. (Since the only one of those three that results in a caution is being "reckless", we can only guess that's what the ref thought on this occasion... unless Cadden was just booked for complaining, in which case, he might just have been "careless"...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Regarding video replays, apart from adding multiple stoppages to the game the bigger reason they would fail is that the same numpties making the decisions would be reviewing them. And refs never like to criticise other refs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Regarding video replays, apart from adding multiple stoppages to the game the bigger reason they would fail is that the same numpties making the decisions would be reviewing them. And refs never like to criticise other refs. I'm in favour of more video technology but I don't agree with implementing a challenge type system. Imagine if we were losing 1-0 with a few minutes to go and the other team used 3 'challenges' that they knew fine we'll try were going to lose as well as a couple of time wasting subs. It would completely disrupt the flow of the game and would be used as a time wasting tactic rather than to genuinely challenge certain decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 No challenges in last 10 minutes, but then it wouild have been a penalty on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Imagine if we were losing 1-0 with a few minutes to go and the other team used 3 'challenges' that they knew fine we'll try were going to lose as well as a couple of time wasting subs. It would completely disrupt the flow of the game and would be used as a time wasting tactic rather than to genuinely challenge certain decisions. For every 2 consecutive unsuccessful challenges the club gets a fine or loses the right to 2 future challenges - maybe along those lines. You could also penalise them for making vexatious challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 For every 2 consecutive unsuccessful challenges the club gets a fine or loses the right to 2 future challenges - maybe along those lines. You could also penalise them for making vexatious challenges. Although they would get full points for 'Vexatious' in the Countdown Conundrum round - so that would even out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 First things first, it was never a penalty and you don't need multiple replays to see the glaringly obvious. Secondly, I'm against video replays because they actually solve very little, maybe "was it over the line" goal, or an occasional offside or handball but most controversial decisions will still be controversial decisions whether they were arrived at by video replay or not. All you really do is add another level of controversy - when is video replay deployed? Who has the final decision? etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 One of the worst penalty decisions I've ever seen. WTF was the ref thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 One of the worst penalty decisions I've ever seen. WTF was the ref thinking? not sure but whatever it was he made a lightning fast decision. I've watched it a few times and still can't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Just watched the penalty again. It looks to me like neither player got any of the ball. There is a coming together of boots as they both try to get the bouncing ball and the Dundee player goes down like a sack of spuds. Now perhaps Cadden caught him on the instep which can be painful, but it was an honest clash with both players going for the ball, and both equally guilty of " high fever" whatever that may be defined as, and never a penalty. An older and more experienced player than Cadden might have realised that he was facing the wrong way and simply moved towards the bounce of the ball and milked the foul for the Dundee player diving through him, but with this standard of refereeing you have no guarantees. He may still have given the penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Just watched the penalty again. It looks to me like neither player got any of the ball. The ball was defo kicked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 First time I watched I thought if there was any infringement it was that the Dundee player kicked Cadden's foot, not the other way around. Never a pen, but too late now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 The ball was defo kicked Watched it again and yes, there is some contact with the ball, probably by both players. The flight of the bouncing ball is affected, though not by much and you would have to assume, by the way the ball travelled afterwards, that Cadden got more of it than the Dundee player, which makes a mockery of the referee's statement to McGhee that he didn't get any of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 In all honesty I disagree Cadden got the ball. But i don't think it was anywhere near a penalty. That we can agree on. Our mini discussion shows a potential flaw on introducing video refs. I doubt there would have been any mora camera footage available, so if a rocket like the ref was reviewing the footage who knows what could happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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