The Players

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

In last few weeks Utd have hammered Kilmarnock, beaten Thistle in the cup and picked up a point at Hamilton.

We've been shite.

It's almost as if Ross Countys run up the table past us last season never happened.

Yes funny you should mention that .......the catalyst was beating the mighty Well on the 14th February 2015...... then took 34 points from the next 42......... We have been warned.......... Don't want to be anywhere near the play offs/ relegation again.......St Mirren collapse would beckon.......roll on Tuesday

[Goggles & Flippers]

It's an interesting premise that Busta brings to light.

 

I've said before I've been concerned with player power in our dressing room. I think it's safe to say that while Gannon was batshit crazy, senior players in the squad also helped bring about his downfall or at least greased the wheels. A board or owner faced with changing personnel has to look upon the replacement of a manager over that of a number of players with associated transfer fees you'd like to achieve to get harmony back. Ease and commercial ramifications have to weigh on that decision. If you're a footballer in the modern game you know 10 games later you could have a new boss if you bide your time.

 

There has been repeated mutings of disharmony, but I look upon a lot of that as barbershop tittle-tattle. No doubt frustration and male egos brought on by errors and the stress that goes with it naturally bubbles over.

 

I've seen a downing of tools under McCall and Baraclough since then and Saturday appeared to be the same. But for every game like that there is one where everything seems to click and you maul the opposition as everyone is on song everything you try comes off.

 

With respect to some players retaining their starting positions, sure I think many must show more in training than the promise of the fringe players in training. Combine that with instructions that certain players are here to make us money in transfers so I get the impression they are played until they come good, a bit like a chronic gambler throws pound coins into a puggy.

 

A solution for me is the playing staff (without the management as a catalyst) get together and collectively pull together as professional football players and put in extra hours off their own back for the collective good and pride in what they are tasked (and paid) to do.

 

But let's put this in context. It's a poor run yes, we were leap-frogged by the 11th placed team, a lot of our recent results have came down to the last 5 minutes of play and a universal lack of concentration (however it cold be argued a lack of application in the preceding 85 to put the game out of touch).

 

We're not a million miles away from 6th place due to the mediocrity of our league and inconsistency exhibited by everyone outside the top 3 and Dundee Utd. Also if we were sitting just 3-4 points further up the league then this debate may be brewing, but it wouldn't be apocalyptic as many seem to think it is. It was only 6 weeks ago the same players tucked the champions away in their gaff.

 

In the past managers and club officials have cited confidence as key to success, when you lose it getting it back is a tough and tedious wait. It's an age old conundrum, how to make guys who should be better, perform better. Manchester United haven't managed for a while now it with much better personnel and management than we can hope for.

[Kmcalpin]

The are numerous reasons for our present predicament, but for me the seeds of it were sown under previous managers. Some players, "stalwarts" like Hammell and Lasley should not have been awarded new contracts by Stuart McCall. When they re-signed their best days were clearly past them and the manager should have looked forward a further 2 years to anticipate how they would be performing in their mid 30s. Other players like Josh Law and Stephen McManus should not have been signed or awarded extended deals. Now thats 75% of our defence and 25% of our midfield. When Mark McGhee returned he had very little scope to bring in his own players.

 

Since MMcG returned something clearly has gone wrong whether its low confidence, dressing room unrest, wrong tactics or whatever. I'm tempted to think that MMcG is doing a Jim Gannon and asking players to do things to which they are not suited or capable of carrying out. He denies this. Today's game at our level, like it or not, requires athletic fit players charging around the pitch in an organised fashion and positional awareness. The lack of these qualities is costing us big time. Our losses have been characterised by players not tracking attackers, not harrying and closing opponents down, lack of off the ball movement and lack of confidence. Its pitiful to watch Skippy jostling with huge defenders twice his size for balls played short or in the air with no colleague in sight to support him. Surely all these qualities are basics? Most of us are not asking for skillful or exciting football simply the boring essentials right now and the players just don't seem capable of delivering them.

[Gaag]

on paper we are better than them but thats BECAUSE of Samson,McManus,Hammell,Gomis ,Lasley,Pearson,McDonald,McFadden,Clarkson,Ainsworth. Take them out and how do we replace that to make sure we go straight back up? Theres no way we will have the money to replace like for like so we run the risk of going the Falkirk route

 

McManus, Hammell, Lasley, Pearson, McDonald, McFadden - all in the twiglight of their careers. Getting a yard shorter for pace every year - we can't continue to play these guys in the long term without identifying suitable replacements and bleeding them in; despite the fact that they have been great servants of the club over the years.

[WellAyrshire]

Been lurking about for ages without saying anything. I've actually got a good idea to improve the work rate of every single player. Every one of them should spend 30 mins of training trying to get a squeaky baw aff ma dug. No joke. We would be unstoppable with this type of training.

[Shaka]

 

McManus, Hammell, Lasley, Pearson, McDonald, McFadden - all in the twiglight of their careers. Getting a yard shorter for pace every year - we can't continue to play these guys in the long term without identifying suitable replacements and bleeding them in; despite the fact that they have been great servants of the club over the years.

thats my point mate. But how do we replace them if/when we go down? Bringing in other players with the experience that lot have will cost a lot of money, but it will keep us ahead of the Falkirks etc. If we replace those guys with experienced journeymen from championship level (ie 7-8 Josh Laws) to compliment the youngsters in the squad, you could argue we'd be below a Falkirk/Raith.

 

My point is EVERY ONE of our perceived "experienced" & "quality" players are old and fucked and we will need to replace the lot should we go down. That doesnt happen to any/many teams when they go down

[Joeboy]

McGhee's purple patches in charge of Motherwell have all come around a settled line up, since Grimshaw has left and a couple of others have been missing, his lack of plan B has been exposed. I felt sorry for him an extent with a squad filled with deadwood, but that sympathy quickly dwindles when we see how well Cadden has done, yet he was shunned for a major reshuffle which resulted in a tanking from Hearts.

 

A lot of the players really do have to take responsibility this season. None more so than Stephen McManus for me, who has been such a disappointment since he signed. He looked ok in his first season, but I've a feeling now that was Hutchy carrying him, rather than the opposite. Even when we finished 2nd that season, we hardly had an impressive goals against column. He makes so many mistakes you'd expect an 18 year old to make, not a guy of his pedigree and experience, he constantly plays that long ball in between their centre back and right back, which we don't have a player who ever gets to. The only reason I have for not dropping him would be that you don't know what influence his experience has on the back line, but you could say his influence doesn't appear great. I like Hall, but we've tried Ramsden, Kerr, O'Brien, Kennedy and Laing at centre back since Hutchy left and the defence still doesn't seem any closer to the solution. Ramsden aside obviously, these are young players who when McManus was signed, you would have thought would have been brought on and looked comfortable playing beside him. Yet McManus seems the common denominator. People say he was good in the playoffs. The second leg, perhaps. He did score a vital goal in the first leg, but not before two dreadful mistakes went unpunished by Rangers poor finishing and Long's good goalkeeping at 0-0. I literally at times can not get my head round how someone with 26 Scotland caps, 3 SPL titles, 2 appearances in the Champions League last 16 who has been subject to a £1.5 million transfer fee.

 

McDonald, despite his 9 goals, hasn't been the player I thought he would be this season either. Partially his fault, partially not. Baraclough using him as a 10 didn't work and neither has the last couple of games as a lone central striker worked either. He looked good in a partnership with Moult, who I think has been harshly dropped.

 

Johnson, has been incredibly inconsistent. The annoying thing about it is, that he has been central to just about every good performance we've had since he came in, but on the days he doesn't do it, we don't seem to do it. I'd maybe throw Thomas on for a couple of games to keep Marvin on his toes. Thomas rarely disappears when he is on and is always endeavouring to make things happen, Johnson goes missing for large periods, like Saturday.

 

Other than them, I don't have major issues week in, week out with any players. After the Dundee game, everyone was raving about Pearo's good season, myself included. He has had by all accounts three poor games since (I've been to two of them), but three poor games doesn't make him a bad player. When used effectively, Lasley has been good. At 36, he's not box to box like he used to be, but when he has been positionally disciplined he has been effective. I would definitely still be cautious about offering him any new deal though, when he'll be 37 most of next season. We always look far better with Hammell in the team than without, his composure at the back is key for us.

 

I haven't been singing McGhee's praises in recent weeks, but I also think you have to blame Baraclough to an extent for his dealings in the transfer market. He gave us a massive squad, yet Taylor, Robinson and Clarkson were deemed surplus as early as January. To add to that, we have seen this thread criticise players like McManus, McDonald and Hammell for example, but is anyone that keen to replace them with Laing, Fletcher and Chalmers? A lot of blame lies with Baraclough for me when it's put like that. Players are underperforming, yes, but most of the fringe players he hoarded our squad with don't seem great options to bring in, even when things are going badly.

[Haggischomper]

A lot of blame, for me, lies with McCall who made some incredibly lazy signings

[Kmcalpin]

A lot of blame, for me, lies with McCall who made some incredibly lazy signings

Absolutely Haggis. The root cause of many, but not all, of our current problems.

[Orinoco]

Could our downturn in form be connected to a probable reduction in win bonuses? With Dempster in charge we were romping the league and losing money left right and center. She leaves, we get perhaps a proper grip on finances and suddenly the desire, energy and hunger to win seems to have vanished, bar the playoffs where presumable the players got a small incentive. Once that goes, and we start to lose, confidence gets hammered, and it's hard to get that back.

 

I also don't think this chat about trusting certain players in public by the manager is anything other than stupid. Given the nature of the game a manager is going to need his full squad to be onside and motivated. If you worked under a manager that did not trust you, would you give 100%? The managers job is to get the most out of all his players. It would seem since McGhee arrived certain players progression have stalled and in many cases went backwards. Why?

 

It would appear our team's attacking ability has now been blunted by attempts (change of tactics) to address our defensive frailties. We dont have the players to defend, so why not just unleash the attacking players and go for it?

[Richie]

I would like to think win bonuses come well down the motivional pecking-order, after professional pride, competitive nature/will to win etc etc.

[Bigeeze]

I would like to think win bonuses come well down the motivional pecking-order, after professional pride, competitive nature/will to win etc etc.

This 100%. We all do jobs we may not like but do well for pride in ourselves. So why not "professional" olayersa in a sphere of work they chose.

[Kmcalpin]

I suspect win bonuses will feature fairly highly on many players' list of reasons for wanting to win. There are exceptions of course but for how many of us is salary not high up the motivational pecking order?

[Busta Nut]

Keith Lasley get some amount of undeserved mentions of his age. He is still one of best players over the season. We miss him awfully when he doesn't play.

[fat_tony]

Keith Lasley get some amount of undeserved mentions of his age. He is still one of best players over the season. We miss him awfully when he doesn't play.

 

Lasley's demise is one of those common myths about Motherwell FC, along with "we never win the big games", and "we always concede".

 

Going on the sheer amount of park he covers during the course of a match, Keith Lasley still appears to be one of the fittest players in the squad.

[Kmcalpin]

 

Lasley's demise is one of those common myths about Motherwell FC, along with "we never win the big games", and "we always concede".

 

Going on the sheer amount of park he covers during the course of a match, Keith Lasley still appears to be one of the fittest players in the squad.

Sorry Tony I don't agree. Keith Lasley is now 37, going on 38. Irrespective of how good he has been he is simply not as fit as he was say 8 years ago. Granted he is very fit for his age. He has never been fast but that is quite different from stamina. He's never ever been a box to box player in the mould of Phil O'Donnell, Stephen Pearson and now Chris Cadden - thats no slight on him he's just a different type of player. I contend that he starts to run out of steam at around the 75 minute mark - again no slight on him but a perfectly natural reflection of his age. In terms of fitness ie stamina I'd place him as one of the less fit members of the squad.

 

I wouldn't have posted these comments but I just don't get the "superman" image many fans, obviously including yourself, have of him. As at today he's a loyal servant to the club, a model professional and a decent player past his prime but thats it.

[Busta Nut]

You have his age wrong.

 

The "superman" image may be something you have imagined. I just think despite his flaws, he is one of the most consistent of our players and we miss him when he doesn't play.

[superward]

You have his age wrong.

 

The "superman" image may be something you have imagined. I just think despite his flaws, he is one of the most consistent of our players and we miss him when he doesn't play.

Spot on.

 

His flaws frustrate me but when not there you see the difference.

 

I thought his time was up about 4 years ago but he keeps turning in solid performances time and time again. I do agree he does seem to tire towards ends of games now and again and that's where we should start bleeding in terms replacement/alternatives.

 

He is 36, 37 in September. Will be very surprised if he is not in a Motherwell shirt for another year. Unless he chooses to retire.

[capt_oats]

we miss him when he doesn't play.

This ^^^^

 

So far in the league I think we've played 5 games where he hasn't started, we've lost 4 of them (the win was away to Killie). While it's fair enough to point out we've lost plenty when he *has* started it should be clear that we're worse off without him just now.

 

Edit to add: with McDonald's brace against United that's the two first choice strikers both in double figures for the season. Pearson's 3rd top scorer with 7.

[Kmcalpin]

You have his age wrong.

 

The "superman" image may be something you have imagined.

I stand corrected, you are quite right - he is not 37 until September. However my points still stand. I beg to differ about his "superman" image. Someone, I have no idea who, coined the phrase "houswewives favourite" and I think thats indicative of his status within much of our support.

[Busta Nut]

I stand corrected, you are quite right - he is not 37 until September. However my points still stand. I beg to differ about his "superman" image. Someone, I have no idea who, coined the phrase "houswewives favourite" and I think thats indicative of his status within much of our support.

 

I think that is more to do with his remarkable good looks rather than his football ability.

I see folk who pick holes in his distribution, quite rightly so at times. I see folk who think he is half a second slower than he used to be, quite rightly so and then there is folk who have a go at him blowing out his arse after 75 mins, once again quite rightly so at times. I think he is still a very important part or team. He hustles very well and often holds the midfield together. He wins the ball and makes a nuisance of himself. Good player in our team.

[Shaka]

 

I think that is more to do with his remarkable good looks rather than his football ability.

I see folk who pick holes in his distribution, quite rightly so at times. I see folk who think he is half a second slower than he used to be, quite rightly so and then there is folk who have a go at him blowing out his arse after 75 mins, once again quite rightly so at times. I think he is still a very important part or team. He hustles very well and often holds the midfield together. He wins the ball and makes a nuisance of himself. Good player in our team.

Im sorry man,a lot of what you say is bang on but I just cannot see where he holds the midfield together, all too often teams run thro our midfield as if it werent there.

 

Las is still capable of the odd fantastic performance, but over the course of a season his distribution,speed and tackling is in the main,atrocious! He should go in the summer and concentrate on coaching or start a new venture pumping wives when there hubbys are at the game

 

We do miss him when he is not playing,but that says more about our horribly unbalanced squad than Las's ability. Generally when he is missing we change formation as CM has been neglected by numerous managers now.

[Busta Nut]

I agree other than Pearson signing, CM had been awful when it comes to bringing folk in recently

[Al B]

I stand corrected, you are quite right - he is not 37 until September. However my points still stand. I beg to differ about his "superman" image. Someone, I have no idea who, coined the phrase "houswewives favourite" and I think thats indicative of his status within much of our support.

 

The only thing that it's indicative of is his handsomeness. Even my Mrs has a signed photo of him, and she couldn't point out Motherwell on a map.

 

Incidentally, It's no coincidence that during our successful spell when we were getting used to finishing 2nd, we were the most handsome side in the league by miles. Then we started getting worse as each of them left and we lost our #swag.

 

Signing policy needs reviewed I think. Get the team chock full of 9's and 10's again and we'll be there or thereabouts.

[superward]

Lost our #swag.

 

Beat comment in here in years. 10/10