underboyleheating Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 It looks more like he's selling the well society the shareholding for the same quid he paid for it but still wanting his loan repaid on the agreed schedule. This is my understanding, however, I’ll wait and see what Flow and the WS have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianc Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Motherwell don't need a sugar daddy. They simply need people to give money to the club. The days of engaging with criminals like Dave King are gone, Sevco snagged him and it will end very very badly. Forget it. I don't include the guys who pay for their season tickets. Its down to guys like me who can never get to games, care about the club to shell out. You aint get anything back but you will have a club to listen to on Mixlr at least. SYWY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Do we or do we not? As a member I would kind of like to know. Simple question. Or not? as a member why dont you ask, the organisation you're membership is for, any answer on here is hear say at best. but since its the internet. yes and no who do you mean 'WE' the football club took a loan, the payments are now deferred, details to follow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianc Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 The We being the society. I've asked Alan Ill see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 I imagine he'll say they'll be organising a Q&A evening soon to answer all our questions (provided we can attend in person, and don't expect them to ever post any minutes anywhere, let alone stream it live). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Looking forward to the Under 20's final now to get a sneak preview of next seasons senior team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I'll wait until I hear the full story before jumping to any conclusions here. My view exactly. We've been given a very vague news update, possibly because matters are still in progress. Given that, I'm not expecting fine details anytime soon. I would guess this premature handover has been in the offing for a good few weeks now as I believe Jim McMahon met with Les Hutchison a few weeks ago in Barbados. I don't know to what extent employees outwith the Board of Directors were involved in discussions. I just don't know what to make of it - it may be good news or it may not be. In terms of fans' contributions £5 a month is not a lot to ask. Its just over half the cost of a packet of 20 fags or it might buy you 2 pints of beer. Not a lot in real terms. That said there are those of us to whom a fiver a month is a helluva lot of cash. There are yet others who are totally opposed to the Society and/or the concept of fan ownership and an additional 1p a month would be unacceptable. I understand both situations. Going by posts on this board the more optimistic posters are cautiously pessimistic whilst the more pessimistic are very pessimistic. Lets just wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Looking forward to the Under 20's final now to get a sneak preview of next seasons senior team! Deary me you're optimistic! What makes you think we'll be able to retain our best Under 20s for next season if the apocalypse of fan ownership comes soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire Greats Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 To me it is obvious the ws has defaulted on payments and have given no guarantee of future funds being there to avoid defaulting again so Hutchison has bailed out leaving the ws to it. We simply don't have a big enough support for this kind of venture. Hope a consortium of businessmen snap up his 76% share or we, really are in bother. If it is because of a default on payments to Les, that's what the statement should say, instead of the sugar coated statement which has come out.That way we could have a better picture of things. I am a well society member but I just see it is a tenner I give away each month.I can see why other people can't or won't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 To me it is obvious the ws has defaulted on payments Facts are thin on the ground right now. However we can put this misunderstanding to bed without further ado. Its the club who owes(d) Les Hutchison money, NOT the Society. The Society has paid the club all that it was supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotts Well Fan Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Very confused by this. Everything I have read paints a rosy picture and that it would appear the WS has exceeded expectations. The last I heard we had failed to meet the number of members paying each month by quite a way. I suspect there is a financial tsunami facing the club. However, I could be wrong and we need much more clarity in terms of budgets and projections. As a member of the WS I feel this has always been lacking and we now need to understand the full financial ramifications of taking ownership and to know what is required in terms of near and medium term funding. I am not confident this information will be forthcoming. I know fans who don't want to throw money into the black hole that is the WS at present. I do fear for the club's future unless the fans do get behind the club in a bigger way than we have done until now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Am afraid fan ownership will never work as said before a football club needs an owner to make business decisions. Fan ownership will dwindle away then we will be right in the shite . Being the first team to do it we have all the mistakes to make and too small a fan base to help out when problems arise. We will be asked to fork out more every year. I'm in the society and a season ticket holder,cant see me putting more than that anywhere near a football club, can anyone of our working fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just to quantify my concerns. We have roughly 1200 Society Members, not all paying money in, with many refusing to pay any more. Hearts had almost 10000 paying members, of the dozen or so Jambos I know, they were paying between £35 and £50 a month into the FoH. Regardless of this, they still HAD to get Ann Budge on board, with her putting £2.5m towards the running of the club. They have also snared some wealthy fans to join the board to improve the commercial reach of the Club as well putting cash into the project. They have the added bonus of Tynecastle and Riccarton being invaluable assets. They do have more than a few wealthy fans that they can call upon now that Romanov has fucked off. We, on the other hand, have nothing like the above listed. Even with the size of support and general wealth of it and assets, the whole idea would have been a dead duck had a few wealthy fans not taken control of the FoH and put serious cash upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Do we really only have 1200 WS members?!?! I don't know how/why the club think fan ownership is a viable option! Each of these members (of which I am one) could pay £1000 a year and it still wouldn't be enough. The club need to find a buyer for Les's shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 We'll be alright. The Society board will be along shortly with a proposal for a meeting about a meeting as per usual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Do we really only have 1200 WS members?!?! I don't know how/why the club think fan ownership is a viable option! Each of these members (of which I am one) could pay £1000 a year and it still wouldn't be enough. The club need to find a buyer for Les's shares. 1200 time £1000 is £1.2m. I think that would be plenty. Back in the real world no one has been buying Scottish football clubs for well over ten years. The idea that a buyer is going to emerge is extreme wishful thinking, we found one rich idiot and his interest ran out after 15 months (during which time he managed to do a fair amount of damage). Reality is we don't have a rich benefactor and you are as well hoping for the next Messi to come through the youth team as you are saying we need a buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Am afraid fan ownership will never work as said before a football club needs an owner to make business decisions. Fan ownership is not the same as 'fans running the club'. Of course qualified people need to do that; in a fan-owned club, it just means that fans' representative(s) on the board theoretically help to decide who those people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 My "back of a fag packet" maths is shocking then!!! Just thinking out loud....if no new wealthy owner is forthcoming, what's the solution? Would 3000 members paying £10 a month be enough? Not having a go by the way, just genuinely concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Fan ownership is not the same as 'fans running the club'. Of course qualified people need to do that; in a fan-owned club, it just means that fans' representative(s) on the board theoretically help to decide who those people are. All the people who have been running the club for the past ten years or so have been fans. I don't really understand this argument, who are the non fans who have been running us in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 My "back of a fag packet" maths is shocking then!!! Just thinking out loud....if no new wealthy owner is forthcoming, what's the solution? Would 3000 members paying £10 a month be enough? Not having a go by the way, just genuinely concerned. It's time for the club as a business to operate in a manner that the society is not required to contribute every year Budget needs amended as been near catastrophic last 5 years We don't have business income to support an xs of strikers or goalkeepers on normal footballing wages Our commercial dept have to stop pissing people off as every pound is needed Every supporter has to find a way to get friends family colleagues to spend even just a small amount on the club, be it a gift purchase , well lotto ticket, draw ticket function or event or just encouraging a friendly or opposition fan to attend a game And it would be nice if the mentality of some of our fans could change , and think on and refer to events in a neutral or even positive tone it's amazing how it could help matters I'm not saying don't question or challenge but instead of society payment into a black hole, acknowledge that payment is simply a contribution that is going to support the club to get back on a balanced keel and continue all the good things it does for us and the community Ps £60 a year to join the society , no one will convince me we do not have at least another 1200 supporters, fans or even just friends of the club who couldn't afford that, whatever the reasons, it's a choice many of the doubters now have to make, keep telling others it'll never work and be part of the reason it's struggling or put your nose back on your face and do your best to contribute what you can, but whatever at least if you insist on Refusing to sign up at least give the club a chance by setting up a standing order to play the well lotto monthly or getting that little extra into the club in a similar manner 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 First of all we need someone to come out and actually explain what all this means and what the repercussions of it are. I don't know what's going on and the people that think they do probably don't have a full grasp either. Surely when the future of the club is at stake, the club has a duty to explain this in layman's terms to the supporters? Second, how much do the club reasonably expect me to put into the club on an annual basis? With season ticket, cup matches, friendlies, merchandise, food and drink, programmes etc I am probably already putting £500+ a year into the club. That's a fair chunk of my expendable income and I cannot afford more, if anything I will be putting in less next season because I just lost my job and I don't know when my next wage packet is coming. I'm sure I'm in a fairly typical position and for me the Well Society is a complete non starter. I put my money in already and I can't put any more in. You can say "surely you can put in another £5 a month to the club you love" and maybe I could if it came down to it but where does it all end? As a supporter I am being bled dry and it doesn't actually solve any of the problems if every time we need cash we twist the arms of the fans, all it does is postpone them until such time as there is nothing left to give. The club needs to operate within it's means without the ordinary supporter emptying out his pockets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 We are nowhere near a big enough club to even tinker with the idea of fan ownership. I can't really understand why the club are pushing for it so hard as surly its just as obvious to them that it's a terrible idea. Our biggest problem is that we are a wee club and surly have burned through our list of millionaire supporters by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 The end is nigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 My "back of a fag packet" maths is shocking then!!! Just thinking out loud....if no new wealthy owner is forthcoming, what's the solution? Would 3000 members paying £10 a month be enough? Not having a go by the way, just genuinely concerned. Enough for what? As far as I can see, not too much has changed - although obviously the devil is in the detail. Les' shares have gone to the Society, but we still owe him is money back over the next few years. That money is supposed to be repaid from the club. The way the club should be paying Les back is by running a break even, or close to break even budget and selling on players. It may take a year or two to get to the break even budget, but that should be the aim. We have been poor at selling on players at recent times, but there seems to be a renewed motivation to both bring in youngsters and sell on talent. I would not be surprised to see both Moult and Johnson sold on during the summer, and that should put a large dent in the repayments. "All" we need to do is, on average, sell on one player for 200k each season for 5 seasons and there is 1 million paid off. If we do run at break even, then any money raised by the society is purely a reserve to *lend* funds the club during periods of traditional low cash flow or emergencies. Because The Society is only supposed to lend money, then if fans are contributing each year, that reserve should grow year on year. I understand it's won't be quite as simple as this, but the fundamentals remain: 1) Run at break even 2) Develop and sell on players It seems that our board had become a little complacent before Les stepped in, assuming levels of success that were unsustainable. Les had made a lot of positive changes to the structure of the club and the way it is being run, and those were much needed. Anyway, no doubt we will learn some more over the coming days. It sounds like interesting times ahead. If I was living locally, I'd love to get stuck in to whole process and help figure things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 As much as I agreed, what else can the club promote? I havnt a clue, but settling for a plan that's destined to fail surly can't be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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