Kmcalpin Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Plan a was sell the club to the supporters and get his money back. So are you saying that Plan A is now officially dead and buried? If so Society members ought to be told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Plan a was to run for 5 years surely, we are 18 months in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think one possible get out would be for Hutchison to join the Well Society itself investing sufficient funds to allow the Society to buy the club. That way he doesn't own the club outright but only as a member of the Society and he get's to walk away without putting the club into difficulty paying back his loan. Plus he could have "Big Les's House" written in giant wall tiles in the tunnel. Every Motherwell fans dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Plan a was to run for 5 years surely, we are 18 months in? I thought so too, but Stuwell seems very sure of his/her facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 18 months in as you say. But already one default by MFC on the agreed repayment schedule. Another two defaults and LH has it written into the agreement that he can void the 5 year arrangement and scrap his plan to sell the club to the fans for £1. in effect he could sell his shares to whoever he could find to purchase them. Next repayment due in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Next repayment due in June. Pressures on, fingers crossed we an can make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Certainly back in last November Jim McMahon was confident the next repayment would be made on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Wasn't the 1st payment missed by a few days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I just think sometimes we have to distinguish between the role of a company director and that of a fan with sporting integrity. As a company director you are charged (legally) to ensure your directorship doesn't put the business in peril and continue trading, not to mention the number of people who's livelihoods are dependent on your direction. On one hand you are faced with an immediate drop in your income equivalent to approximately 13% of your annual turnover and potentially the TV companies pulling the plug as one of the two main reasons they have purchased your game has left the building. On the other you're sitting there wondering "What if?" they weren't able to attract some of the players they did that gave them an advantage over you and potentially cost your organisation glory and financial reward. While your impulse is to be disgusted with their effective cheating, the rational part of your brain has also to be employed. Oh of course it's easy to come on here and rant "get Newco tae fuck" (which I agreed with before anyone has a go), but you have to also place yourself in the shoes and consider all of the repercussions of your decision. It's easy with hindsight to criticise, but you don't get courted to be a company director unless you've have more success' in your life than failures. Jim McMahon and Derek Weir can certainly demonstrate that, I'm sure the ramblings on people on a fans forum armed with half truths and conjecture all too quick to finger point in the bad times and overlook praise in the good times. Derek Weir offered to resign when Les took over but one of his stipulations was Derek stayed on while others like Andrew Wilson were thanked for their time and efforts. Based on what I've witnessed thus far, interviews and general demeanour, I think Les can be pretty hard to work for/with and would be very demanding. Let's not also forget how he stumped up ... what was it? £50k along with Jim McMahon to get us though a sticky cashflow patch. How many others would do the same at our club or others? Many have cited the lack of financial planning. Well we all covet success, we revel in it. The trips to Hampden, lording it over old firm fans when we beat them. We look to new players and hope they will take us to new heights, we roll the eyes when we hire a SPFL journeyman. I don't understand what is wrong with budgeting based on a top 6 finish and a cup run while finishing best of the rest of 3 consecutive seasons is now perceived as inept. To me it's the standard Scottish parochial mentality. If we set out every season to aspire to 10th then your aim becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I have no desire to follow a club with a lack of ambition. I recognise football is cyclical and we are in a dip, but we will be back. But like everything on here, it's either sugar or shite with a good sprinkle of lack of empathy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Many have cited the lack of financial planning. Well we all covet success, we revel in it. The trips to Hampden, lording it over old firm fans when we beat them. We look to new players and hope they will take us to new heights, we roll the eyes when we hire a SPFL journeyman. I don't understand what is wrong with budgeting based on a top 6 finish and a cup run while finishing best of the rest of 3 consecutive seasons is now perceived as inept. To me it's the standard Scottish parochial mentality. If we set out every season to aspire to 10th then your aim becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Good post Googles. Financial planning in a football club is a difficult business. I have heard the above argument mentioned a few times by Directors at AGMs and there is some truth to it. By the same token we can't afford to be financially reckless - we wouldn't want to go through administration again. What I'm saying in short is that there's no simple answer to this fine balancing act. When I'm on, I was thinking more about Stuwell's post last night. Can I ask him/her who was the source of the information that Les Hutchison has abandoned the 5 year aim of fan ownership? I realise these things can be confidential and so a private message would be fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I just think sometimes we have to distinguish between the role of a company director and that of a fan with sporting integrity. ...of lack of empathy. Don't always agree with you mate but you're absolutely bang on there!....well said !!! I've said it on other threads on here that there are a lot of opinions voiced within forums or hurled at club employees and officials during games that are based solely upon ignorance (without knowledge or understanding of the facts). Unfortunately, I was sceptical of whether the club could achieve its promise to LH and after speaking to people who have previously had dealings with him in the steel industry, it appeared that there would be little likelihood of him releasing the club from its financial and contractual obligations if we don't fulfill our end of the bargain. But we are only 18 months in and there is lots of time for things to improve, bring fan ownership, or indeed, source tangible alternatives that may sustain the clubs future. People tend to forget that when LH assumed control, the club were short on alternatives and I personally have little to criticise the board or indeed the presen general manager for......largely because I am ignorant to the facts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thanks for the veiled compliment, I think I'm mostly right, most of the time, however I am a tad biased. Les' involvement gave the WS breathing space which they undoubtedly needed. There were no alternatives, Boyle wanted out as a matter of urgency, unless you maybe fancy a South American consortium which just gives me the fear every time I contemplate it. However the way it was handled, the information dissemination and the whole deal felt a little bit grubby to me and lacked the consultation with the WS membership that something of this magnitude required. I don't doubt it would have been a resounding yes in December 2014 if a EGM was held but it was a disservice to the membership that it was decided that our involvement was unnecessary. If I do the WS the courtesy of 300 quid when I couldn't afford it, then I expect that same courtesy reciprocated when it comes to major decisions. When you had the WS trying to attract business' as well as the club's commercial department, it was a recipe for disaster. While one group is volunteers and the other earn their livelihood through commission then you will always have a conflict of interest, competition and no common message. Same thing with the membership, going after the season ticket holders who aren't members as they are seen as low hanging fruit. It's a trap they and the club have fallen into repeatedly, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between getting more new or lapsed faces into Fir Park. Ultimately that increases the day to day performance of the club and it's not squeezing that last drop from your committed fans. The issue has been the WS has been a rudderless ship for too long. No clear plan but a lot of meetings discussing options and strategy. Things are slowly changing but there's a distinct lack of dynamism and the fanbase are now either apathetic or ambivalent to it's aims and goals. Unless the WS come out with the equivalent of a defibrillator to re-energise itself , then in 2020 we'll find Les looking for an exit JB style or bequeathing the club to his daughter (not saying it wouldn't achieve anything under her stewardship, she might be inspirational and do an Ann Budge) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 As folk have said, 2020 is the projected date for the transfer of LH's shares to the Well Society. All being well. In the period up to then, MFC (or the Society) have to meet the repayment schedule highlighted on Page 65 of the "Well Society or Not" thread. Over the next 15 months.... £80k is due in June, £20k in December and £190k June 2017. The payments due increase as time goes on. Two more defaults and the deal is off. The payment for which MFC had funds set aside... as per the Well Society meeting... was the payment due last December, so on a positive note we should be up to date as it stands. We just have to hope MFC will be able to meet the payments as they fall due, otherwise the Well Society will be asked to meet the payments. Will the Society have sufficient monies available if called upon? Deep down, I fear it will not take until 2020 to find out the answer to that question. At the Society meeting, it was agreed that there would be an up date each month confirming Membership Numbers and also, more crucially, the balance of funds held. The idea being that people seeing an increase in both might be more likely to contribute. If that information has been published, can someone point me in the right direction as I must have missed it? It was also agreed that a list of Questions and Answers from the evening would be published to include additional E-Mailed queries which were not addressed. Again, has that happened? Unless of course some cash rich Premier League ( or Chinese) Club would care to purchase any of our superstars for a few million. In which case, crisis avoided. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprawell Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Great post dennyc, clear and the type of information we are looking for. Yes, an easy total of membership and transparency on the current total of funds would help all concerned. A fan ownership model is a hard thing to pull off. Combine this with: a) A low fan base of regular working class joes from the surrounding area, are they going to pay season ticket and subs equalling £100-£200 onto top? b) A mediocre product on the park c) the lacklustre poorly run committee who find it hard to come up with a dynamic and cohesive strategy, or answers at a meeting of fans for that matter. I have my doubts if Les will get all his money back, it's up to him if he sees some return he might just cut his losses and slip quietly away. Also am I not right in thinking he holds onto the ground if it all goes tits up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Les (also John Boyle) holds Security over Fir park and all assets of Motherwell FC. So if the worst was to happen, he would be repaid in preference to other Creditors such as the Well Society. I hope he would not insist on the sale of Fir Park if all other means of repayment failed, but he does have the power....and the right....to do so. Hopefully he would find a buyer for his shares thus avoiding the need to sell off the family silver. At the Society meeting I pushed for the Society to be given the same Security protection as LH and JB, bearing in mind that the Society comes only behind LH in the amount of funding provided to MFC. At least the Society would then have some chance of getting it's money back in the (hopefully unlikely) event of Administration or a sell off to a third party. Money which could then be used to support any future ownership/reincarnation of MFC. Reaction to my suggestion was positive on the night, but to date no effective action has been taken. Apparently we are waiting until "the time is right". Apologies to all that are aware of the situation from other threads, but since there has been no progress whatsoever since the Society meeting I feel the points are still very relevant and worth airing. And yes G&F. You were correct after all. I am pissed off with broken promises. Fair play to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Certainly back in last November Jim McMahon was confident the next repayment would be made on time. Aye but the clubs business acumen will have made that assumption based on us winning the Scottish Cup LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 When I'm on, I was thinking more about Stuwell's post last night. Can I ask him/her who was the source of the information that Les Hutchison has abandoned the 5 year aim of fan ownership? I realise these things can be confidential and so a private message would be fine. i didn't realise I'd said he had abandoned the 5 year plan - if I did then I apologise. The point I was trying to make is that he never said he was our saviour and had only offered to help us out with an interest free loan and its up to us to enable the club to move forward from then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 i didn't realise I'd said he had abandoned the 5 year plan - if I did then I apologise. The point I was trying to make is that he never said he was our saviour and had only offered to help us out with an interest free loan and its up to us to enable the club to move forward from then. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I'll just leave this here: http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/03/02/club-launch-the-hutchison-award/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUNKspex Posted March 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 As above. My enquiry has been resolved. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/03/07/club-statement-derek-weir-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Not sure if this deserves a new topic or not... http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/03/15/club-statement-ownership/ Interesting developments. Big change from the perceived plan. Does this mean Les is writing off his investment in the club? While I've never fully bought into the fan ownsership idea, wish the new people all the best and hope I am proved wrong to be sceptical. As for Les, thanks for his involvement and clearly stabilising the club off the park in the short term and providing the Well Society the opportunity to make a real go of it. Interesting times ahead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Was just about to post that. As you say, interesting. Remain unconvinced that we have the fanbase to sustain this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmfc Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Completely baffled by this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 He may just be washing his hands of the whole thing. That's a few resignations in a few weeks. May be entirely coincidental mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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