CMWellfan Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I would wholeheartedly agree if we were talking about an EPL side but quite frankly, we are in a precarious position financially and every conceivable factor must be considered and pound note stretched in what will be vital negotiations with the 5. Can we afford to lose them? Can we afford to keep them? It's a genuine quandary, but for more reasons than just first team selection !!! It would appear and makes sense to me that the club is looking to become a bit of a footballing academy, they have already invested in some infrastructure for this and are quite sensibly looking to utilise existing resources to populate that structure and bring the academy to life. As said before, a footballers career cycle is different to the average Joe so there is a strong attraction for the 5 in becoming part of the coaching team as well as the first team. Where else would they get an opportunity to taper from one career to another within a friendly environment from an empowered position and have a clear career path if you do well? It represents good value for money for the club whilst generating a competitive and attractive coaching development plan. In the context of Motherwell....it makes perfect sense. And I fear relegation next year if we go into the season with 25% plus of our limited squad over the hill - If we lose Moult, ( strong possibility ) McGhee had better put his magician's robe to dig up a striker with anything like a comparable work rate and ability to hit the net. Lose McDonald to injury? we're in serious trouble. At this rate, we'll be fielding one of the oldest, slowest, and most inept defences in the league next year. They say that every war is fought by generals using the tactics of the last war - McGhee needs to wake up to the fact that the Old Guard has broken. Even Napoleon couldn't stop that happening - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMWellfan Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's as if Josh Law & Steven Hammell never played all season... Correct - there's way too many delusional people on this board, forgetting the evidence in front of their eyes. It now seems to be the received wisdom that McFadden and Samson can go, and no one would be bothered. Fine - Have a serious look at the other three as first team players - already yards off the pace, already seriously culpable in way too many games, with one in particular becoming a liability every time he goes in for a tackle. The excellent run that McGhee produced from February has clouded too many people to the dire reality until then, way too many woeful, shocking performances from guys that were supposed to be the bedrock of our team. With a squad of twenty, with possibly only one goalkeeper ( wtf? ) we can't accommodate so many players that we, as fans, know are seriously limited. Side issue - haven't seen much comment on it - I can't believe it's even in McGhee's mind to start the season with one keeper "squad of twenty, maybe twenty-one IF we add a goalkeeper," he said. So what's it going to be if the sole keeper is unavailable? an emergency loan? What a state we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 At this rate, we'll be fielding one of the oldest, slowest, and most inept defences in the league next year. The average age of defenders Hall, Kennedy, Laing and Law is 22.5. Not exactly old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Correct - there's way too many delusional people on this board There's certainly a few too many people who deal in ridiculous tabloid levels of hyperbole and speculation in an attempt to make their tenuous points. I'll leave that as an exercise to the interested reader to work out who they might be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Correct - there's way too many delusional people on this board, forgetting the evidence in front of their eyes. It now seems to be the received wisdom that McFadden and Samson can go, and no one would be bothered. Fine - Have a serious look at the other three as first team players - already yards off the pace, already seriously culpable in way too many games, with one in particular becoming a liability every time he goes in for a tackle. The excellent run that McGhee produced from February has clouded too many people to the dire reality until then, way too many woeful, shocking performances from guys that were supposed to be the bedrock of our team. With a squad of twenty, with possibly only one goalkeeper ( wtf? ) we can't accommodate so many players that we, as fans, know are seriously limited. Side issue - haven't seen much comment on it - I can't believe it's even in McGhee's mind to start the season with one keeper "squad of twenty, maybe twenty-one IF we add a goalkeeper," he said. So what's it going to be if the sole keeper is unavailable? an emergency loan? What a state we are in. Aye, playoff last season to finishing fifth this year...alarm bells started ringing for me as soon as we started winning games, I have to say. Nobody is doubting the fact that the club needs to have some kind of succession plan, but for a club like us there is little point in suddenly ditching everyone over the age of 33 and replacing them with folk from the U20s. It has to be a gradual thing - we've seen Hall come on leaps and bounds through his partnership with McManus, and there's no doubt that Cadden has also benefitted from playing alongside Lasley. Both of those guys are now seen as first team players - would they have developed in the same way if they'd just been thrown on with little or no assistance? I'd also take issue with your point about culpability - we've played poorly many times this year (albeit, not nearly so much since McGhee took over), but can you honestly point to games where one or two of the five players in question have definitively cost us the game? I'd agree with you that time is up for Faddy. Samson is a bit of an unknown; I'd have no qualms about him starting as our number one next year but if he left, we'd get someone else. Tends to be the way it works. I personally don't see where the risk is in giving Hammell and Lasley new deals - another year for both as player/coaches? Sounds fine to me. I genuinely don't think they've been as bad as you clearly think. What it does point to however is how we've failed to augment these positions in recent years. Take left back - we tried Zaine Francis-Angol, we've got Joe Chalmers just now, but neither has come close to getting in front of Hammell. In Lasley's case, we've never adequately replaced Steve Jennings or Nicky Law, so we've had to rely on Keith for probably longer than we otherwise would have. There's also the question of previous management - McCall was never one to bring through the younger players particularly, and neither was Baraclough - so what's our alternative? Ultimately there's been a bit of a shift in emphasis over the past year - the transition to fan ownership will inevitably (to my mind) require some cloth-cutting, but so be it - if we need to maintain a core of older players to help bring through the next sellable prospects, then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 And I fear relegation next year if we go into the season with 25% plus of our limited squad over the hill - If we lose Moult, ( strong possibility ) McGhee had better put his magician's robe to dig up a striker with anything like a comparable work rate and ability to hit the net. Lose McDonald to injury? we're in serious trouble. At this rate, we'll be fielding one of the oldest, slowest, and most inept defences in the league next year. They say that every war is fought by generals using the tactics of the last war - McGhee needs to wake up to the fact that the Old Guard has broken. Even Napoleon couldn't stop that happening - Youtube vids are blocked at work, where I'm currently posting, so apologies if that makes my reply look a bit daft (you may think that either way ) But whilst I take your point that the senior professionals referred to can't go on forever and there will of course be a natural dropping off, we've been reading the same every summer for about half a dozen years. And only in one of them have we failed to finish in the top half. I believed myself that in the early part of McCall's final season it appeared a perfect storm was brewing exactly as you paint it above. That the core of experience that served us so well all seemed to decline markedly and lose a yard all at the same time. And from being a generally savvy, experienced and street wise group they looked cumbersome, slow and one-paced. But I think it has been proven since that if an appropriate fitness regime is being employed the fears over their fitness and ability to cope can sometimes be overstated. I'm certainly not advocating that each of the experienced guys should be first picks for every game next season but I do believe that if their levels of fitness are maintained and their game time is properly managed then each of them can all make a significant contribution next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergie79 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 It has to be accepted that this coming season will be a season of transition with the younger players given more game time with the aim of making them starting 11 picks the following season. The likes of Lasley and McManus will be pivotal in this transition and will be signing on this season in the knowledge that this could be their season last as a first pick but will be relied upon to pass on their experience both in training and matches. They will get more experience in the coaching and behind the scenes activites with a progression for them to take up this role more full time as opposed to playing following this season. Seems a sensible way to commit to bringing through the youth and at the same time giving the older heads a career path too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I agree with bigweegiedosser. McManus talks the young centre backs through games. He had played for Celtic, had umpteen Scotland caps and a good career in England. This raised the expectations among our support. His performances on the park have been quite good but maybe not as good as we all expected with his history. However I doubt if we could get a player with his experience with the money we offer. His influence on and off the park is only something we fans can guess about but McGhee speaks very highly of him and that is good enough for me. He is for me number one priority to resign from the 5 who are out of contract. When we have been a defensive shambles at times over the past couple of years he has been far from the leader you describe ,in fact at times it has looked as if he has hidden and shirked and hid from all responsibility especially in the months previous to us almost being relegated. No issues with him being offered a deal to sign on again though if the manager sees him as part of the plan as he's seemed more comfortable/confident having settled into McGhee's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Going by today's press conference, McGhee seems keen to get Mackin and Ferguson more involved next season along with Thomas and Campbell. Yet to hear back from Ben Hall's agent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I had heard that not many of the U20s had been offered contracts. Obviously some of them will be under contract but still sounds like a few will be released, including some surprising names... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 When we have been a defensive shambles at times over the past couple of years he has been far from the leader you describe ,in fact at times it has looked as if he has hidden and shirked and hid from all responsibility especially in the months previous to us almost being relegated. No issues with him being offered a deal to sign on again though if the manager sees him as part of the plan as he's seemed more comfortable/confident having settled into McGhee's side. Manchester City are a defensive shambles and look how much money they have. Defending is a dying art in modern football, refereeing and new rules have made it very difficult for defenders, even something like the modern interpretation of the offside law means defenders can't even be sure that someone who is offside will be flagged. Defending a set piece? Any physical stuff or shirt pulling and you are risking a penalty while attacking players are only risking a foul, giving attackers a big advantage there if there is a tussle. The modern game has neutered the defender and across football even at the highest level the standard of defender has dropped dramatically. McManus was very poor last season but I think he's been decent enough this season and certainly isn't any worse than most of the rest of the defenders in this league. I mean, look at who Celtic have at the back - Boyata, Ambrose, etc. Who are we going to attract with 10, 12, 15 times less the resources? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I had heard that not many of the U20s had been offered contracts. Obviously some of them will be under contract but still sounds like a few will be released, including some surprising names... The U20 releases are always a tough call, and not always talent based. A combination of wanting to bring other players through, lack of likely opportunity in the 1st team and a necessarily small squad size means tough decisions to be made. As usual, though, it's rare we release somone who goes on to better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Manchester City are a defensive shambles and look how much money they have. Defending is a dying art in modern football, refereeing and new rules have made it very difficult for defenders, even something like the modern interpretation of the offside law means defenders can't even be sure that someone who is offside will be flagged. Defending a set piece? Any physical stuff or shirt pulling and you are risking a penalty while attacking players are only risking a foul, giving attackers a big advantage there if there is a tussle. The modern game has neutered the defender and across football even at the highest level the standard of defender has dropped dramatically. McManus was very poor last season but I think he's been decent enough this season and certainly isn't any worse than most of the rest of the defenders in this league. I mean, look at who Celtic have at the back - Boyata, Ambrose, etc. Who are we going to attract with 10, 12, 15 times less the resources? Did someone say Efe Ambrose is a leader of men and an inspiration to those around him ? I said id make efforts to resign him , i also said far from being a leader and helping the young boys through he was one of those most guilty of hiding when we needed leaders most and folk to stand tall and be counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I had heard that not many of the U20s had been offered contracts. Obviously some of them will be under contract but still sounds like a few will be released, including some surprising names... Thomas, Watt and Campbell under contract. Mackin and Ferguson in McGhee's plans. Hall offered a contract. The only name I can think of that could be considered a surprise by some is Ross McLean who has been very unfortunate with injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We never really gave McHugh his chance did we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Bring back McHugh, some boy. I can mind he had a header wrongly disallowed in the League Cup when Hibs went on to win on pens. Since then, he's scored 5 times in last 10 mins against Hibs. On the downside, I think tonight put's an end to my notion that Luke Leahy could be a Motherwell target one day. Great left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee_alpha Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We never really gave McHugh his chance did we? 88 appearances (all competitions) 8 goals. Mind you about 80 of those were from the bench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We never really gave McHugh his chance did we? Glad he's doing OK, but even at Falkirk his regular starting position is on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Glad McHugh is doing well for himself, but any time I saw him at Motherwell I thought he was awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Falkirk is obviously a better fit for McHugh than we were. Good luck to the lad. Will be interesting to see how he goes next season if they manage to get by Killie. He had a fair go with us and didn't make the grade, so no regrets. If he improves and has a stellar career, then it is down to him and those around him. Can't say it is likely, based on what I saw of him at Fir Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Thomas, Watt and Campbell under contract. Mackin and Ferguson in McGhee's plans. Hall offered a contract. The only name I can think of that could be considered a surprise by some is Ross McLean who has been very unfortunate with injury. McLean has, I gather, been offered a contract and will probably sign. Hall probably won't for the current offer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We never really gave McHugh his chance did we? Well, aye, but he was shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermarv Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Any things on who we are trying to sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Any things on who we are trying to sign Are you able to read? Wire in if so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 . Hall probably won't for the current offer... He may reconsider now that Hibs are not coming up this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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