Well Society Agm

[Spiderpig]

You want the Well society to install Wi-Fi at Fir Park?

As the organising body of the club owners ie the fans would that not be a sensible plan to consider, i.e maximise the revenue potential for Fir Park etc. Or do you think that is beyond them

[CoF]

Started watching it but then realised I'd rather just lob my money into something I don't fully understand. It feels right because it's to do with Motherwell.

[mjw]

As the organising body of the club owners ie the fans would that not be a sensible plan to consider, i.e maximise the revenue potential for Fir Park etc. Or do you think that is beyond them

If the WiFi installed at Ibrox is anything to go by,then yes,it is.

They spent an absolute fortune and it is shite.

[ropy]

https://www.periscope.tv/w/ahNSLTF4bmpyWFZkR3ZMUVl8MVprS3psV21vUVpKdrHBoxGIvKEtDrqHyut5Fj7rsrBXl7-GQc-KUqgKqCjy

Thanks for that, got a good feel for the meeting through watching

[Lobey_Dosser]

Periscope a welcome addition. Rather depressing but worthwhile watch. I'm afraid the demographics of the audience underlines the lack of engagement and possible interest in fan ownership.

 

McMahon is the one with his finger on the pulse and it would appear fan ownership is a long way off. Rightly so, if we don't have a sustainable model at present. Reading between the lines, am I surmising Jim's views accurately:

 

- After the takeover, budget went through the roof, presumably with a 5 year plan in mind.

- In condradiction to the takeover agreement, Les is looking to sell before the club is close to being self-sustainable.

- no deal will be done unless the debt is effectively wiped.

 

Are these the reasons why Derek Weir opted to leave?

[Kmcalpin]

Periscope a welcome addition. Rather depressing but worthwhile watch. I'm afraid the demographics of the audience underlines the lack of engagement and possible interest in fan ownership.

 

McMahon is the one with his finger on the pulse and it would appear fan ownership is a long way off. Rightly so, if we don't have a sustainable model at present. Reading between the lines, am I surmising Jim's views accurately:

 

- After the takeover, budget went through the roof, presumably with a 5 year plan in mind.

- In condradiction to the takeover agreement, Les is looking to sell before the club is close to being self-sustainable.

- no deal will be done unless the debt is effectively wiped.

 

Are these the reasons why Derek Weir opted to leave?

Attendance at AGMs is an automatic switch off for many folk and not just in footballing circles - I'm not unduly concerned at that. Such meetings are low on most folks agendas football fans or not. Your summary of Jim McMahon's views are pretty accurate. I took heart from the fact that he is negotiating on behalf of the Society and will not accept just any old deal. I wasn't unduly disturbed at what I heard. Of course its not a done deal and the worst case scenario is that no agreement is reached and Les decides to market the club. That said, there will be no queue of white knights ready to splash the cash and its in his best interests to strike a deal soon.

 

I was heartened to hear the word "sustainable" used over and over again and pleased that the Society is looking beyond the short term. Pleased to hear that the Society Board will not sign up if it isn't in the best interests of its members and the club. There's no point in the club keeping its head above water in the next 2 years but then fail after that.

[Big Wispy Flossy]

- After the takeover, budget went through the roof, presumably with a 5 year plan in mind.

 

Are these the reasons why Derek Weir opted to leave?

^one of the major factors^

[Jay]

I was at the AGM last night and managed about 25-30 minutes of the Q&A before I had to nip to Ravenscraig for 5s.

 

I'm often very critical of the Well Society but I'm more than happy to pick up on any positives firstly. For me, I was quite concerned with a lot of the rhetoric when the news of Les wanting out first broke and my major concern was that fan ownership was going to be pushed through despite never hitting any targets or potentially being unsustainable - it seemed at that stage like the possibility of the Society playing Russian Roulette with the club and just hoping that the numbers would come in after an agreement was made with Les. So it was great to hear in no uncertain terms that this entirely not the case. I thought it was made very clear that the Society is negotiating with Les with their own priorities, objectives and common sense rather than playing to Les's tune and that's very encouraging.

 

However, for me, yet again the whole thing is just so dull, disengaging and uninspiring. I have been to various AGMs before - I understand what they involve and I recognise that you're not going to have fireworks and rallying calls. But the whole thing - not just at the AGM - is, at times, soul-destroyingly dull which is incredible for an idea that should be, at its core, an exciting prospect for football supporters. The Well Society's biggest "achievement" to date has been the ability to take something that generated a lot of interest, engagement and a bit of a buzz, and completely demolish those vibes over five years - and last night again confirmed that such a trend will just continue.

 

In fact, it was confirmed at the Q&A that 400-500 of the original members who signed up at the very start have not renewed or given monthly payments since. That's a massive figure - one third of the total adult membership at the moment. Those are the people who didn't need convinced by Dirk Lehmann becoming a member, or Jim McMahon answering questions at a Q&A, or Les Hutchison proclaiming "it's up to you guys" on the MFC Podcast - those are the very people who didn't need persuading, they were simply engaged by the idea of fan ownership and wanted to be a part of it. And the Well Society has been so incapable of utilising that engagement and inspiring folk further, that the very people who didn't need persuaded to join in the first place have now lost interest.

 

For me, there needs to be a genuine revamp of the vision for the Well Society itself and how it relates to and engages the support as a whole. I know zero non-members who are going to be motivated to join by the current mindset. From my time at the AGM and Q&A last night, the only person who spoke with any genuine passion or fire in their belly was the Partick Thistle guy Paul on the panel. He was the only one talking like a football fan to football fans and making the idea of fan ownership actually seem like an exciting prospect. The rest were more interested in failing to answer questions and spending 15 minutes of the AGM discussing someone not getting their 4th team photograph in monotone voices. I'm not for a second saying that the Well Society needs to get rid of these guys and replace them with folk who'll shout a bit or go on Tommy Sheridan style rants - far from it, I have no doubt those involve bring their own qualities, experience and expertise to the table, but there seems to be a complete disconnect between the Society Board and the average punter who will need to join in order for it to be a success. The AGM itself just felt like a village bowling club meeting which, although the demographics that attend those sorts of things can't be helped, just emphasises how stagnant and mundane they've managed to make the whole thing over the past years.

 

Les Hutchison said on our podcast that if Well Society members were able to convince friends and family to join, then it would be a great success. I don't believe anybody leaves Society meetings or events with any passion or pride or motivation to go and convince anybody else. By all means, spend 20 minutes talking about the two pages of a 12 page report you've decided to hand out or answer whatever questions come your way as best as you can. But this is a unique circumstance because, although football fans all differ in opinion on line-ups, managers, players etc - we all share that sentimentality, that romance, that buzz you get when you rewatch Ainsworth's goal at Ibrox or Kirk's goal at Hampden - and there's absolute zero attempt by the Society to play to that, to encourage it or even just manipulate it. Members of the Society should be leaving events like last night proud of being members, excited by what fan ownership means, and energised to try and convince others to join. Not shuffling out bored.

 

Aside from the general atmosphere and lack of it rarely encroaching on particularly interesting, communication remains an absolute clusterfuck. I could not believe that Tom Feely announced during the AGM that it had never really been considered to make AGM minutes available to the wider membership. I've been to ramshackle uni whisky club meetings with a handful of people who produce minutes for the members never mind the AGM of a fan ownership model with 1,300 adult members. The idea that this has never even dawned on the Well Society in the past years is absolutely incredible. When you factor in the number of folk who have even been on this board complaining that such things aren't available, you can't help but wonder if the folk in charge at the Society are inhabiting another world.

 

Apologies for the lengthy post. In summary for me - positives are that the Society is fighting its corner in negotiations with Les and I do believe their claims that no deal will be done unless it suits the Society and the Club; negatives are that the whole thing is as dull as dishwasher, there is zero attempt to actually engage or inspire the Motherwell support (unless your name is Paul and you're just a guest on the panel), and communication remains as amateur as ever.

[Guest]

Aside from the general atmosphere and lack of it rarely encroaching on particularly interesting, communication remains an absolute clusterfuck. I could not believe that Tom Feely announced during the AGM that it had never really been considered to make AGM minutes available to the wider membership. I've been to ramshackle uni whisky club AGMs with a handful of people who produce minutes for the members never mind a fan ownership model with 1,300 adult members. The idea that this has never even dawned on the Well Society in the past years is absolutely incredible. When you factor in the number of folk who have even been on this board complaining that such things aren't available, you can't help but wonder if the folk in charge at the Society are inhabiting another world.

 

What the fuck !

 

I can only echo the Whisky AGM shouts. I deal with student groups on a day to day basis and it's part of their affiliation with Student Associations that they get relevant minutes put together. This covers Uni football teams, chocolate societies, anime shite, all sorts. Now, I know for an absolute fact that the vast majority of minutes are never read, because the only people that care are the ones that are there.

 

The Well society is shooting itself in the foot with things like this. There is an absolute need to engage with members across the world, any Motherwell exiles across the globe (of which I presume, there must be at least one or two), and make them feel involved and part of it. Get the minutes published, get them promoted, get key points, anything even faintly positive, stuck together in an infographic so people can get the jist of it and get it fired out immediately. Get it shared by the club, get it shared by the various fan engagement social media bods and get the message out.

[superward]

Great post Jay. Agree with it all.

 

If we are looking for a passionate well spoken fan to sit on the board/panel the you have your guy...you!

[Kmcalpin]

I'm often very critical of the Well Society but I'm more than happy to pick up on any positives firstly. For me, I was quite concerned with a lot of the rhetoric when the news of Les wanting out first broke and my major concern was that fan ownership was going to be pushed through despite never hitting any targets or potentially being unsustainable - it seemed at that stage like the possibility of the Society playing Russian Roulette with the club and just hoping that the numbers would come in after an agreement was made with Les. So it was great to hear in no uncertain terms that this entirely not the case. I thought it was made very clear that the Society is negotiating with Les with their own priorities, objectives and common sense rather than playing to Les's tune and that's very encouraging......However, for me, yet again the whole thing is just so dull, disengaging and uninspiring. I have been to various AGMs before - I understand what they involve and I recognise that you're not going to have fireworks and rallying calls. But the whole thing - not just at the AGM - is, at times, soul-destroyingly dull....In fact, it was confirmed at the Q&A that 400-500 of the original members who signed up at the very start have not renewed or given monthly payments since. the idea of fan ownership and wanted to be a part of it. And the Well Society has been so incapable of utilising that engagement and inspiring folk further, that the very people who didn't need persuaded to join in the first place have now lost interest. The rest were more interested in failing to answer questions and spending 15 minutes of the AGM discussing someone not getting their 4th team photograph in monotone voices.

 

I could not believe that Tom Feely announced during the AGM that it had never really been considered to make AGM minutes available to the wider membership.

 

Apologies for the lengthy post. In summary for me - positives are that the Society is fighting its corner in negotiations with Les and I do believe their claims that no deal will be done unless it suits the Society and the Club; negatives are that the whole thing is as dull as dishwasher, there is zero attempt to actually engage or inspire the Motherwell support (unless your name is Paul and you're just a guest on the panel), and communication remains as amateur as ever.

You raise a few points Jay. Like you I was pleased to hear that the Society Board will fight its corner for the best deal and will not allow members' contributions to be used to pay off debt - they will be used for the long term benefit of the club.

 

As for AGMs , I've been to many over the years in many different organisations and almost all have been dull to a lesser or greater extent. Thats their nature. Ploughing through accounts and such like isn't everyone's cup of tea but its necessary. As for the team photograph issue - it was raised by a member from the floor (not the top table) and I do agree that it shouldn't be a huge issue. Thats as may be but it was raised and the top table had to address it - it would not have looked good at all had the member been ignored. Had he been ignored some members would have complained that the top table was being arrogant and dismissive. The missing minutes - agreed.

 

Now the issue of the 400 original/missing members. That doesn't surprise me at all and I raised that again after you left (along with the important issue of members living outwith Lanarkshire). Its my recollection that originally members were never really reminded of annual renewals - so some did renew and some didn't and it was hit or miss; some claimed benefits and some didn't. When the idea of monthly pledges was introduced that complicated matters even further and I asked the Society where that left the original members but that was never made clear. As it stands now, members do not need to renew annually and as we know 400 or don't. Some have lost interest, some haven't out of principle but probably the vast majority just don't know that they can or should be. In short they are confused or unaware. The system needs clarified and simplified to tell all members that they can sign up to a monthly pledge or annual one off payment if they wish (there is no compulsion). We heard last night that the Society manager is currently contacting all the original members to do this.

 

I agree communication has been poor and that was acknowledged but its hard given the administrative resources. I agree more should be done and perhaps this could be achieved by spending a little bit more (if costs rose markedly some members would complain). Maybe the Society should use volunteers from amongst its membership.

[steelboy]

So Les came in, ramped up the budget, saddled us with debt and wants to walk away within a year?

 

I'll not be starting up my direct debit until the society has the controlling shareholding. I'm not handing over money which will end up in some Tory tax exile's pocket.

[Busta Nut]

Problem is no one wants to be part of the board. No one wants to offer up any suggestions to revamp things. No one wants to give up their time to put in the effort.

 

 

I certainly fucking don't.

[Desp]

Problem is no one wants to be part of the board. No one wants to offer up any suggestions to revamp things. No one wants to give up their time to put in the effort.

 

 

I certainly fucking don't.

 

Jay in charge would be a laugh.

 

Every meeting it would be £1 a pint at the bar, 50p a vodka and everyone would end up rat arsed. Vote Jay!

[weesacs]

is there anyone on here who actually helps or volunteers to assist the Well Society?

[Lobey_Dosser]

As has been touched upon above, people with the fresh ideas and experience in how to articulate their message in the modern world are required to compliment the skillset of those currently on the Board. Indeed with recent political campaigns, I'm certainly aware of 1 or 2 Motherwell fans via social media who have excelled in driving a campaign message and sharing beliefs that can be backed up with in-depth knowledge.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect young men with such drive are likely to be busy carving out their own careers and unable to devote the time to the WS that their passion would demand. Consequently, we are left with a Board that doesn't come close to representing a cross section of our support and the sense of apathy is there for all to see.

 

My hope with the WS gaining control was that the above would becomes less of an issue as the club and society would be under the one umbrella and you'd have characters like Alan Burrows driving the message home in an articulate and timely fashion.

[AndyRoss]

is there anyone on here who actually helps or volunteers to assist the Well Society?

Last season I organised their quiz (with assistance and speaker evening. On both occasions I found the support of the paid employees of the Society to be poor.

 

I also know of many that have made suggestions and offers to help which have been ignored or acknowledged then disregarded without any further update.

 

There's almost an attitude that as fans of the club we should be giving up our time regardless on how well the Society is operating.

[Jay]

Problem is no one wants to be part of the board. No one wants to offer up any suggestions to revamp things. No one wants to give up their time to put in the effort.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with that. I know of a few people, myself included, who have offered up suggestions as well as criticism both by e-mail and in conversation. The outcome has regularly been either negative or just radio silence. Others who have actually went so far as to create projects or organise events for the Society tend to report the experience in a negative fashion, either without any gratitude or the project they've put the work into it just being scrapped. Perhaps there is less enthusiasm to get involved now but then that's hardly surprising given a lot of folk's experiences up until now, but I think there is still plenty of room for suggestions and opinions - it's just a case of the Society actually treating people properly when they offer them up, rather than continuing to exclude and isolate the membership base. As I said in my original post though, unless there are genuine strides taken to make the actual idea of fan ownership more appealing, engaging and inspiring to everyday football fans, rather than the mix of utterly boring patter and scare-stories about Argentinians, then it just won't happen IMO.

 

 

Jay in charge would be a laugh.

 

Every meeting it would be £1 a pint at the bar, 50p a vodka and everyone would end up rat arsed. Vote Jay!

 

Agreed. But not in the Cooper/Centenary. Terrible selection of lagers.

[weeyin]

Periscope a welcome addition. Rather depressing but worthwhile watch. I'm afraid the demographics of the audience underlines the lack of engagement and possible interest in fan ownership.

 

McMahon is the one with his finger on the pulse and it would appear fan ownership is a long way off. Rightly so, if we don't have a sustainable model at present. Reading between the lines, am I surmising Jim's views accurately:

 

- After the takeover, budget went through the roof, presumably with a 5 year plan in mind.

- In condradiction to the takeover agreement, Les is looking to sell before the club is close to being self-sustainable.

- no deal will be done unless the debt is effectively wiped.

 

Are these the reasons why Derek Weir opted to leave?

 

Is this the same Derek Weir who admitted at one of the Q&As that he, and his fellow board members, consistently set budgets that were too high because they got carried away with their success?

 

I have a lot of time for Mr Weir, but it was that set of board members that put us in the position where only Les would buy us.

[David]

A bit strange that they can put up the Q&A on periscope without an internet connection.

 

Maybe they could lend the club the money I have contributed over the past few years to install a telephone.

 

I'm only telling you what I've heard, there's no need to be a snarky cunt.

[steelboy]

I don't think that is the case. They were undone by events which couldn't be foreseen ie Rangers and the Setanta collapse. McCall's cup exploits also shafted us.

 

Showing some ambition with the budget when the time was right was the smart thing to do. Finishing 3,2,2 and the openness of recent cup competitions prove that.

[Goggles & Flippers]

My feelings on the whole affair are well documented in this thread.

 

Reeks of parochial fumblings and biscuit tins used to contain the cash. Needs a revamp, a relaunch, a re-election and and re-awakening of the support. Can't help but feel I'm like a soothsayer of impending doom after seeing the comments on here about lack of information. If I was petty I'd be inclined to sift back through posts made last Spring where the apologists tried to justify the WS position and pour scorn on my demands for greater clarity and say ... told you so. But that would be petty and churlish, you know who you are and what you said.

 

They've been offered help and blanked it or turned it down because it doesn't fit with their antiquated way of looking or doing things. Weesacs, scroll up through this thread and with saddening regularity (usually a 2 page - 40 post cycle) where people are enthusiastic, offer help and then come on here to vent.

 

I'm one of the the 500 who purchased membership (when I was unemployed and couldn't afford it) but haven't contributed anything since. Why? Because I don't throw good money after bad, I learned that the hard way and why I've not encouraged any of the the 5 former season ticket holders I used to sit with to join the WS. I've never been contacted with respect to my subs/DD however if I had I would tell them where to go I'm sorry to say.

 

Some people need to bite the bullet and realise it's not working and they are contributing to that failure. Sometimes it takes a lot guile to fall on your sword and let fresh blood in, that and integrity.

 

The rules of the society have been changed without consultation making things harder to remove people. Just all very Orwellian and therefore I've switched off indefinitely.

[Spiderpig]

My feelings on the whole affair are well documented in this thread.

 

Reeks of parochial fumblings and biscuit tins used to contain the cash. Needs a revamp, a relaunch, a re-election and and re-awakening of the support. Can't help but feel I'm like a soothsayer of impending doom after seeing the comments on here about lack of information. If I was petty I'd be inclined to sift back through posts made last Spring where the apologists tried to justify the WS position and pour scorn on my demands for greater clarity and say ... told you so. But that would be petty and churlish, you know who you are and what you said.

 

They've been offered help and blanked it or turned it down because it doesn't fit with their antiquated way of looking or doing things. Weesacs, scroll up through this thread and with saddening regularity (usually a 2 page - 40 post cycle) where people are enthusiastic, offer help and then come on here to vent.

 

I'm one of the the 500 who purchased membership (when I was unemployed and couldn't afford it) but haven't contributed anything since. Why? Because I don't throw good money after bad, I learned that the hard way and why I've not encouraged any of the the 5 former season ticket holders I used to sit with to join the WS. I've never been contacted with respect to my subs/DD however if I had I would tell them where to go I'm sorry to say.

 

Some people need to bite the bullet and realise it's not working and they are contributing to that failure. Sometimes it takes a lot guile to fall on your sword and let fresh blood in, that and integrity.

 

The rules of the society have been changed without consultation making things harder to remove people. Just all very Orwellian and therefore I've switched off indefinitely.

Not a member and have no immediate plans to become one but that post pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. The concept of fan ownership was great to start with and still is but the WS so far has become a badly organised and managed shambles, no effective communication with current or potential members, no clear direction, amateurish at best administration. The whole thing needs relaunched on a more professional basis with people in charge that actually know what they are doing only then do they have a chance of keeping existing members onboard or attracting new ones.

[Raoul_Duke]

 

There's how you do an AGM!

[Guest]

 

There's how you do an AGM!

And here is how you don't:

 

 

Can only echo what someone said earlier, in that I'd hoped that the Society getting closer to the club might've seen some input from Burrows and the rest of the media team, who do a fine job on match-days and throughout the rest of the season. Get them involved, get them on board, get them producing Well Society materials to the same, impeccably high standards as the posters and programmes. Surely that's possible?