Well Society Agm

[Busta Nut]

 

Can only echo what someone said earlier, in that I'd hoped that the Society getting closer to the club might've seen some input from Burrows and the rest of the media team, who do a fine job on match-days and throughout the rest of the season. Get them involved, get them on board, get them producing Well Society materials to the same, impeccably high standards as the posters and programmes. Surely that's possible?

 

 

This would be a great start.

[Kmcalpin]

Can only echo what someone said earlier, in that I'd hoped that the Society getting closer to the club might've seen some input from Burrows and the rest of the media team, who do a fine job on match-days and throughout the rest of the season. Get them involved, get them on board, get them producing Well Society materials to the same, impeccably high standards as the posters and programmes. Surely that's possible?

I can't disagree in theory but the club staff already have their hands full working for the club. Also, if the Society used more of the club's resources to up its game some fans, including members would complain that a rising proportion of the Society's income was going to pay expenses and also that the club and Society should remain independent. You can't please all of the people all of the time......

[Guest]

I can't disagree in theory but the club staff already have their hands full working for the club. Also, if the Society used more of the club's resources to up its game some fans, including members would complain that a rising proportion of the Society's income was going to pay expenses and also that the club and Society should remain independent. You can't please all of the people all of the time......

 

Which I understand, but surely, (and I'm speaking from a position of complete ignorance here, so I apologies if I'm entirely wrong), even a bit of input, a bit of time, taken on board, would go a long, long way with this. Even if it isn't necessarily those involved in the club that are doing it, surely hunting out through the club database, or the society database and inviting submissions or requesting volunteers for those specific skills allows people to immediately become more involved?

 

The club is rightfully given plaudits for the stuff it produces, so even a bit of that would make a big difference at the moment. The whole thing just seems completely static, like there isn't a plan B for how you engage.

 

"Plan A is the right plan, if it isn't working that well, we just need to be better at Plan A."

[Kmcalpin]

 

Which I understand, but surely, (and I'm speaking from a position of complete ignorance here, so I apologies if I'm entirely wrong), even a bit of input, a bit of time, taken on board, would go a long, long way with this. Even if it isn't necessarily those involved in the club that are doing it, surely hunting out through the club database, or the society database and inviting submissions or requesting volunteers for those specific skills allows people to immediately become more involved?

 

 

Completely agree that the Society should do more to engage with members and use their skills and time. Surely there are members who could donate a few hours of their time to carry out even basic admin duties.

[Spiderpig]

Completely agree that the Society should do more to engage with members and use their skills and time. Surely there are members who could donate a few hours of their time to carry out even basic admin duties.

That's the fundamental problem Dave, this is not some local camera club they are running / hoping to run it a top flight football club generating significant amounts of revenue, large numbers of members etc etc. We need experienced full time people in place to administer it on a professional basis, I have no doubt that there will be opportunities for the ordinary fans to help out in some form, but the core functions of the WS, i.e recruitment, managing the membership, communication, setting strategies etc need to be done professionally by people able to devote their full time to the job, if that means hiring people then that's what needs to happen, only then does it have a chance to grow and succeed.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Completely agree that the Society should do more to engage with members and use their skills and time. Surely there are members who could donate a few hours of their time to carry out even basic admin duties.

 

Scroll through the WS thread, see repeated examples of where people have offered time and services and been left out in the cold. Spiderpig is correct, they need to transition from amateur bumblings akin to a bowling club committee to governance of a 3m turnover company with lots of media exposure and scrutiny.

 

To give you an example, go onto the WS thread that's around 70 pages deep. Here's a brief synopsis:

 

Post 1: Today the WS announced X, which will in turn bring Y into play and ultimately achieve Z

 

Post 2: Hey can someone tell me about X and Y and how it affects Z, the information is a tad vague?

 

Post 3: I think Mr ABC said at the AGM/in a tweet, that it's a work in progress and they'd come back

 

Post 4: I'm fed up I wrote to them about X, Y and Z, no response

 

Post 5: Hey give them time, they are volunteers and you can't please everyone all the time

 

Post 6: Their communication is shocking

 

Post 7: Rather than complain do something about it

 

Post 8: OK, well ..... I just did and it was a total waste of my time

 

Post 9: Ahh OK, that's not very good

 

Post 10: Theres something dodgy going on, why all the secrecy

 

 

Post 11: Hey just seen the Well Society are launching DEF.

 

Post 12: Not been impressed with them so far but we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Post 13: Yeah, OK

 

Post 12: Why not

 

[David]

Can only echo what someone said earlier, in that I'd hoped that the Society getting closer to the club might've seen some input from Burrows and the rest of the media team, who do a fine job on match-days and throughout the rest of the season. Get them involved, get them on board, get them producing Well Society materials to the same, impeccably high standards as the posters and programmes. Surely that's possible?

 

I could be very wrong of course, but I get the feeling that the club itself and the society aren't always on the same page a lot of the time. I'd even go as far as saying that I don't think they work all that well together.

 

For example, the businesses that the Society are looking to recruit and get on board are also being coveted by the club for possible sponsorship and suchlike, so you basically have two different sections of the same football club angling for a businesses money.

 

The entire concept seems to be at odds with the club in many ways from what I've seen.

[Kmcalpin]

 

I could be very wrong of course, but I get the feeling that the club itself and the society aren't always on the same page a lot of the time. I'd even go as far as saying that I don't think they work all that well together.

 

For example, the businesses that the Society are looking to recruit and get on board are also being coveted by the club for possible sponsorship and suchlike, so you basically have two different sections of the same football club angling for a businesses money.

 

The entire concept seems to be at odds with the club in many ways from what I've seen.

Not entirely sure thats true. The club and the Society have to maintain a separation for the time being, and if I recall rightly, in the early days, some members and non members were concerned that the two were too close. That of course will change when and if the Society takes on ownership of the club.

[David]

Not entirely sure thats true. The club and the Society have to maintain a separation for the time being, and if I recall rightly, in the early days, some members and non members were concerned that the two were too close. That of course will change when and if the Society takes on ownership of the club.

 

Well, I still think that it feels as though they're pushing against each other in certain ways to a degree, and that's not good.

[Andy_P]

 

Scroll through the WS thread, see repeated examples of where people have offered time and services and been left out in the cold. Spiderpig is correct, they need to transition from amateur bumblings akin to a bowling club committee to governance of a 3m turnover company with lots of media exposure and scrutiny.

 

To give you an example, go onto the WS thread that's around 70 pages deep. Here's a brief synopsis:

 

Post 1: Today the WS announced X, which will in turn bring Y into play and ultimately achieve Z

 

Post 2: Hey can someone tell me about X and Y and how it affects Z, the information is a tad vague?

 

Post 3: I think Mr ABC said at the AGM/in a tweet, that it's a work in progress and they'd come back

 

Post 4: I'm fed up I wrote to them about X, Y and Z, no response

 

Post 5: Hey give them time, they are volunteers and you can't please everyone all the time

 

Post 6: Their communication is shocking

 

Post 7: Rather than complain do something about it

 

Post 8: OK, well ..... I just did and it was a total waste of my time

 

Post 9: Ahh OK, that's not very good

 

Post 10: Theres something dodgy going on, why all the secrecy

 

 

Post 11: Hey just seen the Well Society are launching DEF.

 

Post 12: Not been impressed with them so far but we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Post 13: Yeah, OK

 

Post 12: Why not

 

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with anything you've said but they did mention there was an election coming up imminently for a place on the board as one of the board members is returning to Canada.

 

Bit more difficult to ignore you if you're a fellow board member rather than mug punter I would imagine.

 

The floor is yours....

[dennyc]

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with anything you've said but they did mention there was an election coming up imminently for a place on the board as one of the board members is returning to Canada.

 

Bit more difficult to ignore you if you're a fellow board member rather than mug punter I would imagine.

 

The floor is yours....

I understand he offered his services previously but was advised by the former Chairman that he would be wasting his time as the Board already had chosen who was to fill the vacancy which existed at that time. Allegedly of course!

But as we now have different leadership it might be worth another try. Go for it.

[Kmcalpin]

The Brazilian has raised a point which I think needs clarified (Les is in an agreement his payback terms agreed). Its been widely reported over the past few weeks that Les Hutchison wants his money back sooner rather than later ie about 1-1/12 years into the 5 agreement. It also seems that the club & Society are eager to pay him off asap or are under pressure to do so or at least put arrangements in place to do so.

 

Now, I have no idea what is in the agreement but assume as Iain does, that paybacks terms are agreed and fixed. Maybe simplistic but its analagous to me taking out a 5 year car loan with ABC Bank and paying the first 18 instalments in full and on time. The bank then comes to me and asks for the outstanding money back forthwith. Surely they cannot do that? Surely the Society and Club are only doing what they can to do Les a favour and give him money back more quickly. I would have thought that the ball was in our court. Surely he can only ask nicely or are there other strings attached? Does anyone know?

[dennyc]

I think you are correct and hopefully the terms of the original agreement are still effective. If so, the ball is indeed in MFC's court and Les can only ask nicely. Good to have that confirmed though as you suggest. From what was said at the Society Q&A it is also good to hear the Society Board are not prepared to take ownership until such matters are ironed out and the takeover has a realistic chance of success.

 

To take your example of the car loan. What happens if you cannot meet the payments as agreed? At the first Society Q&A it was confirmed that MFC had sufficient monies put aside to meet a payment due in early 2016. From memory, the next payment is due in June and continues to increase every six months until repaid in full. Again, given the receipt of league placing monies and money ingathered via Season Ticket sales there should be cash available for that payment. Living hand to mouth as we may be, the ongoing payments are a concern, particularly if Les is not prepared to be flexible. And how about any additional monies provided by Les after the initial Agreement? Again we do not know the current situation and perhaps that is a major part of the discussions which are taking place.

 

Previously there was a suggestion that it was three defaults and your out as far as the Agreement was concerned. Les could then terminate the Agreement. It is acknowledged that the Club has already defaulted once, from Les's own comments.

 

It really does concern me that the Society is not in a financial position to assist further having already input over 500k. I fear MFC are truly relying on transfer income and perhaps Les's patience to stay ahead of the game.

[Andy_P]

** TLDNR warning **

 

Each will have drawn their own conclusions as to what the delay in an agreement being signed off between Les and the WS and the repeated references from Jim McMahon about a deal only being signed in the best interests of the WS/MFC the other night pointed to.

 

I thought it would be speculative and perhaps unhelpful to post views on what my own conclusion was but since the chat is now focusing on it, my tuppenceworth....

 

I see three strands currently.

 

First we have, as Brazilian has pointed out, already in place the agreement for the five year period. Of course there are the get-outs if payments aren't made but given both Les and MFC/WS have signed off to this we must assume that both parties believed it achievable. Now I initially saw this, bearing in mind the get-outs, as an agreement that was to Les benefit. Perhaps however given the change this actually might afford MFC/WS that bit more security given we are only a short period into that five year agreement. In short if these negotiations don't work to Les' preferred outcome he can't take the huff and sell the club until the end of the five years unless it's a three strikes and out payment scenario.

 

Then we have Les preferred outcome. Health issues have been mooted by some as a reason, I don't know and won't linger on that speculation but regardless of the reason he would appear to want a more swift conclusion than initially agreed. It wouldn't seem unreasonable to think that if his position has changed he should be the one to concede most ground. This is of course a billionaire we're dealing with and billionaires don't become billionaires by folding in business negotiations, philanthropic gestures made or otherwise!

 

He may view the fact he's offering the club for £1 as the ultimate concession but I draw from what was said last Tuesday about repayments on top of existing debt on top of current financial models being unsustainable in the short term and that JIm McMahon wouldn't sign us up to a deal that would see the club fall down inside a couple of years, that Les would prefer his money sooner rather than later.

 

Then we have the club and the WS. Now I do have a degree of faith that the investment and restructuring will see the tanker complete its slowly turnaround to a break point and modest profitability with a fair wind (i.e. transfer sales, reduced player budgets and new SPFL prize monies) this can be achieved over time. The longer we get into the existing agreement and the larger the repayments are of course it becomes more pressing to get revenue in from player sales to meet these repayments. But for now we have a little time on our sides and don't have our backs completely against the wall just yet.

 

So where will the negotiations go? It's difficult to say as the situation at the club, as with all football clubs is fluid. Before Friday for example we didn't have a potential six figure sum coming in from the highest profile draw in the League Cup. A team could come in with a stupid money bid out of the blue for a player that changes our hand. Things happen that change positions and outlooks.

 

Again it's all supposition on my part and I could be well off the mark with my interpretation of what's happening but I believe the WS have done well very not to be blinded by the fact that the ultimate prize of fan ownership is being dangled in front of them in a deal that would ultimately do them and the club no favours. I can only hope they continue taking that measured and considered stance to ensure a positive outcome.

[delboy]

To all those people who feel hard done to because someone from the well society has come to there house and asked them personal on bended knee to sign up to monthly payments or has a guilt edged invitation sent through the post, yer having a laugh

 

you couldn't miss what has been going on and the drive have people to sign up to monthly payments or to renew their subs

 

if your only excuse for not doing so is because you never got an email, letter or phone call then get off your backside and contact the Well Society and make sure they have your details and while your at it renew your subs or sign up to monthly payment and get over yourselves.

 

The Well Society will only work if well fans put the effort in and that includes making sure they have your details and paying your subs.

[Spiderpig]

 

 

The Well Society will only work if well fans put the effort in and that includes making sure they have your details and paying your subs.

No it wont,it will only work if the current amateur set up is dumped and they get competent professional people in place with the skill and ability to make the WS work, improved communications, recruirment etc, etc. Only then will they have a chance to meet their targets and end up running the club.

[weeyin]

If you know any competent, professional people willing to put in the necessary hours, I'm sure they will be happy to accommodate them. The bottom line is, if they were available, they'd already be working for the Society.

[mjw]

 

 

No it wont,it will only work if the current amateur set up is dumped and they get competent professional people in place with the skill and ability to make the WS work, improved communications, recruirment etc, etc. Only then will they have a chance to meet their targets and end up running the club.

until then, do we all just lift our money and go home?

[Spiderpig]

until then, do we all just lift our money and go home?

No the members should be asking the questions and putting pressure on the WS to get the improvements made, its the members who vote the WS board in and its the members who can vote them out.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I understand he offered his services previously but was advised by the former Chairman that he would be wasting his time as the Board already had chosen who was to fill the vacancy which existed at that time. Allegedly of course!

But as we now have different leadership it might be worth another try. Go for it.

 

Close, to set the record straight and be fair to Brian, about a year ago invitations were asked from the membership to put themselves forward to be considered to be co-opted onto the board. I did so then received a call telling me that people were put on the back burner at the previous co-opting. When the new request made them asked why new applications were being sought when the were told they would be brought on at the next opportunity. The only thing the Chairman was guilty of were jumping the gun with their press release and not running it by every member of the board in advance (however I understand that wasn't the first time). It was during this call I was asked to be a "special advisor" along with Jay, so it was more an acknowledgement of that oversight, it just turned out to be a waste of time.

 

I don't think the time is right for me just now Andy or maybe even in the future but if I'm honest, I'm both disheartened and disenfranchised from the whole thing.

 

If I was to get involved I'd look to join and champion another 6 other people I've admired and identified who could make things happen. (4 SOL contributors for their measured and fair responses and who better represent the demographic of our club support. Plus two others with significant corporate accounting experience, one who is a Director of Corporate Tax at one of the big 4 in Glasgow and another who is a Management Accountant & CFO who has successfully been integral to major multi-million pound takeovers, both former season ticket holders but not WS members). While lawyers and accountants look impressive on a board, the issue the WS have had is communications and marketing and people with this expertise should not be overlooked.

 

There are also a number of people involved in the past who have since distanced themselves, all with significant experience and things to offer that I hope could be persuaded to return within a more open and progressive organisation.

 

But that isn't a mandate I could be elected on, I don't have the time or gumption for the ensuring fight to push things through. It is important a board stand by the concept of collective responsibility and project a unified front, it would be disingenuous of me to do so when I have been so critical on here.

 

By no means do I question the good intentions and desire of the current board to make things work, even more so the most recent additions as they are hardly in the door and I've seen first hand how committed one of them is.

 

The change of one person is not the answer though.

[Mic2904]

 

No it wont,it will only work if the current amateur set up is dumped and they get competent professional people in place with the skill and ability to make the WS work, improved communications, recruirment etc, etc. Only then will they have a chance to meet their targets and end up running the club.

Complaining is all fine, but feel free to share your ideas. Assuming you think of everyone being amateurish, I suspect you have a great deal of competence that would possibly steer this into the right direction? Again, feel free to share...

Also, as mentioned already, if you know someone 'competent and professional' you should be getting in touch with the WS.

[Jay]

If you know any competent, professional people willing to put in the necessary hours, I'm sure they will be happy to accommodate them. The bottom line is, if they were available, they'd already be working for the Society.

 

Unfortunately I know of a few "competent, professional people willing to put in the necessary hours" who, over the last couple of years, have made attempts to be involved or to provide expertise and suggestions and have ended up either being made to feel unwanted, completely messed about, or just completely ignored.

 

The bottom line is, from the actual experiences folk have had, the idea that availability would lead to involvement is largely nonsense.

[David]

Unfortunately I know of a few "competent, professional people willing to put in the necessary hours" who, over the last couple of years, have made attempts to be involved or to provide expertise and suggestions and have ended up either being made to feel unwanted, completely messed about, or just completely ignored.

 

The bottom line is, from the actual experiences folk have had, the idea that availability would lead to involvement is largely nonsense.

 

The new guy who's running the comms side of things now, Craig? He's very receptive to anyone who wants to get involved I think.

[Mic2904]

 

The new guy who's running the comms side of things now, Craig? He's very receptive to anyone who wants to get involved I think.

I would honestly encourage people to get in touch with Craig via Twitter, email or whatever.

[weeyin]

If people are really unhappy, there are mechanisms available in the Society rules to remove the people they are unhappy with.