Fixtures 2016/17

[Welldaft Mk1]

 

Have we though? And where does it all end? Maybe Kilmarnock gets Aberdeen and Hearts on a midweek and we get them on a Saturday meaning an extra 1,000 away fans turn up. Or maybe Dundee have a crucial relegation tie against us and they bring a huge support down or maybe we get Celtic in the Scottish Cup instead of Montrose. Or maybe it pisses down for three home matches in a row in January and a couple of hundred people decide to stay in the pub or the bookies while its sunny in Dingwall and a couple of hundred decide not to sit in the house.

 

Trying to calculate all the permutations and situations across a season is impossible and there will always be teams that benefit and teams that don't. The idea that everyone is entitled to the same level of income over a season is ridiculous.

 

I know this though, you don't lose £120k that you never had in the first place.

 

We got a tough break with the fixtures, sup it up and move on. The fact that we play Rangers in the League Cup partially makes up for the league game anyway.

You cannot compare a midweek game with a non old firm club to us missing a Saturday to an Old firm club.

 

I don't give a flying fuck about the midweek games away to Inverness or Ross County, because at best we only ever take a few hundred to these grounds on a Saturday as it is.

 

I don't even mind us missing 1 game v others but 2 extra away games to the old firm puts us at a huge competitive disadvantage v the 3 teams who have 4 home games v old firm. So not only will we miss out on £250 k v these teams - we could also end up a couple of league places behind Dundee for example. Double shafted as it were.

 

Nothing will change so we live with it. But anyone who fails to see this is an uneven playing field is blind as a bat......

[superward]

They are club 12 and this is what happened. If we've not budgeted properly because and we assumed they'd change the rules, then whose fault is it? Who did we expect Rangers to replace? club 2, coz THAT would've been fair!

They guarantee a few fixtures (New year) ensure roughly home/away and randomize the rest.

Same garbage 'crap','fix' shouts every single year.

The point is that they have changed exactly what they used to do when Rangers and Celtic were in the league before!

[superward]

If hibs had come up and these fixtures came out this way, would this be an issue?

 

(This is assuming the mention of the promoted team taking Dundee Utd's place)

No, because the whole crux of this issue is that the SPFL are treating the scheduling of home Rangers and Celtic fixtures differently from when they were last both here. The SPFL are the ones who have moved the goalposts.

[mfc]

only in this country would there be such a big rumpus on the day the fixtures are released for the new season,the game is a fucking joke and the chancers that are in charge should have been chased a long time ago.

[BigWeegieDosser]

Tiresome

Tiresome

Tiresome

It is what it is

Please just f cking sign some players and get on with it

[Shaka]

That's because Celtc are cancelling their 2nd game to play Inter Milan. It's been deemed only fair that should a team cancel for a glamour friendly, it should coincide with a home game. Good move.

 

A team want to cancel an Official League Game for a "Glamour Friendly" they should forfeit the 3 points and be fined 10 points & £500k for bringing the game into disrepute and being odious cunts

[Yabba's Turd]

We're now chasing the blue pound. If the argument was for sporting integrity then maybe I'd see the point. The fact it looks like we're begging, not so much.

[Jacol]

All about opinions, simple solution is make sure we finish in top 6 and have 2 old firm home games no doubt on tv

But with the financial disadvantage we now have over say Dundee our chances of making top 6 are much less. I'm fully backing the club in their stance with this.

For the SPFL not to see the issue in advance is shocking. The fixtures are adjusted and Rangers don't just replace Dundee United otherwise they would be playing Dundee at New Year.

[Lobey_Dosser]

A team want to cancel an Official League Game for a "Glamour Friendly" they should forfeit the 3 points and be fined 10 points & £500k for bringing the game into disrepute and being odious cunts

Don't particularly disagree with the sentiment but the majority if not all premier league clubs agreed to it.

[Lobey_Dosser]

But with the financial disadvantage we now have over say Dundee our chances of making top 6 are much less. I'm fully backing the club in their stance with this.

For the SPFL not to see the issue in advance is shocking. The fixtures are adjusted and Rangers don't just replace Dundee United otherwise they would be playing Dundee at New Year.

Rangers have been given Dundee Utds fixtures, in line with the process that has been in place for many years. The only thing that has been adjusted is the order. Otherwise you'd have the same run of fixtures in alternate years.

 

While I understand the sentiment, I don't subscribe to the financial disadvantage argument, there is nothing even about the finances in Scotland. When Accies replaced Hibs, we'd have benefited more than most clubs, albeit on a smaller scale. Similarly, we take 150 fans to Ross County but 1500 to Partick Thistle. There is no balance, some years you win and some years you lose. We'll be well in next year with 6 home games against Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen. To rig figures any other way would be granting Rangers and their fans a special status.

 

Given the nature of events since the liquidation of Rangers, our stance is one of incompetence and embarrassment, implying that the infamous Armageddon argument had merit at Fir Park. Utimately, our precarious financial predicament is skewing the objectivity (and professionalism) of our Board.

[Welldaft Mk1]

The point is sadly it did. Motherwell lost out far more than most other clubs than maybe Celtic, Partick and Killie when Rangers imploded. They absolutely deserved their fate.

 

But we lost out on 5-10% of our gate receipts as a result. We are a business and it is no surprise that our losses have been greater the past few years.

 

I don't like it any more than anyone else on here but the Old firm out a fair chunk of cash in our coffers.

 

I am sure the club budgeted for 3 home games v the old firm and to only get 2 will quite probably mean we may well have 2 less players in the squad than we were planning or hoping for.

 

The SPFL should have known this would be the outcome / reaction. The fact that they did not sums up that organisation and its leadership!

[Tweed]

It isn't as simple as that - we got St Johnstone at home twice and away once twice in a row not so long ago so they don't always just flip them round. Broadly they do but there have always been exceptions, though I notice not this time that I can see.

 

I kind of agree with both points here as naturally I don't want to treat any club any differently but likewise the financial detriment faced by us, Partick and Hamilton compared to Inverness and Dundee (I'm not counting Hearts because they sell out every week anyway so the difference isn't the same) is quite a high proportion of any of these five clubs' turnover and could give them an advantage in player availability both this season and potentially next if these extra players secure an extra position and ergo more prize money.

 

However I would point out if Rangers had fucked getting up, we'd have only had one home game against the Old Firm this year and in 2013 (I think) we gained a third home game v Celtic despite us both having been in the top 6 the season before - something we definitely were not entitled to. The 'woe is us' argument wears a bit thin as over time we have got some and lost some but people only seem to remember when we are the victim.

 

The Inverness and Ross County argument is out of order though. There are five midweek cards and other than each other there are no other clubs within 100 miles of them. With the best will in the world someone needs to go there and it being us is just one of those things. As a fan it is disappointing as these are games I would probably have gone to but now probably can't (in Inverness's case definitely can't).

[Lobey_Dosser]

The way to restore parity is to move to a 10 or 16 team league and play each team the same number of times home and away.

 

A change that Motherwell, Accies and Thistle are unlikely to vote in favour of.

[Tweed]

Well I don't see us ever going back to ten.

 

I wonder if the League Cup 'experiment' is with a view to seeing if having two guaranteed home games in that competition could make up the shortfall of having four less home games in a 16 team format. Judging by the look warm reaction to it, I doubt it. If you knock nearly a quarter of the games off a season ticket, you'll need to knock nearly a quarter of the price off it too which pushes more emphasis to attracting away punters and walk up ones. In the current climate, something no club is finding easy.

[Wellfan1984]

But with the financial disadvantage we now have over say Dundee our chances of making top 6 are much less. I'm fully backing the club in their stance with this.

For the SPFL not to see the issue in advance is shocking. The fixtures are adjusted and Rangers don't just replace Dundee United otherwise they would be playing Dundee at New Year.

Dates are adjusted, or we'd know the fixtures every year. Are we going to give compensation to the teams that missed out on top six because we were given 2 home games against Celtic last season but they only got one?

[Goggles & Flippers]

The SPFL have the power to alter and fine tune the computer randomisation, in this instance they haven't. Let's not ignore that in the history of the split, correct me if I'm wrong, neither Rangers or Celtic ever had 18 home games, but on a few occasions had 20.

 

There's four bits to this whole debate:

 

Sporting Integrity: We face 4 trips to Ibrox and Parkhead, Dundee/ICT/St Johnstone etc. face only two pre split. Lets not deny that every fan on the planet feels they have a chance against as an underdog on their own patch. The whole point of a league is that in theory everyone has a chance to win. Of course things are skewed in this country as they are in most other leagues where 25% of clubs are the only realistic ones able to win the league consistently.

 

To play them both at home post spilt we have to accumulate enough points (you would imagine) to attain top 6 status. Not so easy when you've one less home game and 2 first team players down compared to your immediate competition.

 

Commercially: We face a significant loss to their balance sheet by early April compared to our competitors. This allows them to wheel and deal to secure better additions to their squad. Yes if we get top 6 then we've got a bumper April/May but anyone who knows about football finances knows the pinch points are in January and March. Not only that, to get the bumper April/May we have to overcome a higher hurdle than the other teams in the league.

 

Heart: The club supported the overwhelming groundswell of fan opinion and sanctioned Rangers demotion. They made it clear it was going to be tough and asked for fans to help see through the shortfall in revenues with buying bricks, getting lapsed visitors back in the fold, etc. Needless to say we as a group didn't do with the gusto required. Yes, it would be nice to treat them as we would a Falkirk but only the most blinkered of fans can't ignore they are a different entity. It should make no difference, but it does.

 

Historically: First time this has happened, so what's the rationale SPFL? Every year they are released and we seem to be the club that is messed around, the thinking is what? Punishing the exuberant among our support, the fact our support is smaller than a number of others, or our management can be controlled and pacified unlike others. Personally I'm glad we're making a stand, everything about this is amateurish.

 

 

With respect to the midweek games, it seems many have ignored the Friday night Aberdeen games in recent memory. It's not unconceivable to schedule Ross County/ICT vs Aberdeen or St Johnstone for the midweek Christmas fixture. We expect the New Year fixture always to be a derby, so ICT vs Ross County, St. Johnstone vs Dundee, and while not close Aberdeen vs Hearts would result in a bumper crowd for the home team and keep them as happy as they could be. What's so wrong in suggesting the week before ICT, Aberdeen, RC and ST Johnstone will all be involved against each other?

 

When people are home at that time of year, visiting family/jaked, just keep them close to home, its not hard.

[sinjy]

One of the justifications for the increase in season ticket prices was that there would be one more category A game now that Rangers were back in the league. This means the club were expecting a third Old Firm game. They will have included this when planning the budget for the season.

At the very least there has been a cock up by the board or more likely a lack of communication from the spfl.

[Goggles & Flippers]

More likely a "fuck Motherwell" from the SPFL, the club can't influence the fixture list prior to publishing except maybe highlighting prior oversights. Remember a few years back Leeann got a Boxing Day game against Celtic due to a 18 game home season opposed to 19.

[Wellfan1984]

Motherwell to Aberdeen is a shorter journey (by time)than Dingwall to Aberdeen.

[Shaka]

Don't particularly disagree with the sentiment but the majority if not all premier league clubs agreed to it.

 

oh I know that. Another reason why the clubs arent capable of looking after themselves! pathetic pandering to the old scum and making our league a joke.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Motherwell to Aberdeen is a shorter journey (by time)than Dingwall to Aberdeen.

 

Aye but Motherwell have Accies 2 miles away for derby's, and Partick and Killie for midweek games around Christmas. Aberdeen is always going to be somewhat inconvenienced by the Geographic location, so you look to mitigate it as much as possible.

[Desp]

The statements of Motherwell and Partick are a joke.

 

It's nothing other than poor planning. You forecasted a third OF game because it was that way 5 years ago? If I went to my finance gaffer and gave him projections based on something like that, I'd get laughed out that building.

 

Sheer incompetence by the board at MFC

[Goggles & Flippers]

What exactly is the incompetence exhibited by the board, issuing the statement or something they could have done in advance?

 

I would suggest the biggest difference here is you work in a commercial capitalist environment where if you succeed your competition fails. Motherwell (while still success based) existing in the sporting sphere where on day one it is expected there is a level playing field.

 

The better analogy would have been you visiting your finance gaffer and apologising for not winning a contract you tendered for as your competitors are given an advantage on what should be a fair, open and transparent system.

[Waldo]

The point is that they have changed exactly what they used to do when Rangers and Celtic were in the league before!

No, they've followed the rules they've always had.

Rangers were not allowed into the SPL because they are not a special case.

Now you want to change the fixtures because they are a special case!

They are club 12, it's not difficult to understand. Was there a debate about tying in Celtic/Hearts home & away last season?

Motherwell's 'statement' befits a small time club.

[Desp]

What exactly is the incompetence exhibited by the board, issuing the statement or something they could have done in advance?

.

Something could have been done in advance. A simple phone call to the SPFL was all it took. "I see Rangers are back in the league. Are we getting the fixtures to fit in 3 OF home games or do they effectively take the place of Utd, as happens with every other newly promoted team?" A 10 minute phone call, if that.

 

But no, all we get is "we were never told about it", "we assumed as that's how it's always been". For the board at a company with a multi-million pound turnover, to be gambling over £120k (a fair amount to the football club) on an assumption is unbelievably imcompentent, IMO.