Goggles & Flippers Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Thoughts and votes please folks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 while it shouldnt matter,Scottish football is so skewed that games against the Old Firm are more than just another league game,and finance is king here,when you can only budget season to season every penny is a prisoner. Therefore I can handle the financial hit that only 1 home game against each of the Old Firm but to have that against Aberdeen as well? and our only home game v Aberdeen at 3pm Xmas eve? Tjats a hit that will cost us hundreds of thousamds of pounds! In a sporting sense, Aberdeen,The Rangers & Celtic are the 3 biggest teams in the league and will be the top 3 come season end. Our fixtures mean that over 33 games pre split, Caley,Killie,Hamilton,Dundee etc will all have played 3 less away fixtures against the top 3 and will have tens of thousands of pounds extra to spend in the transfer window due to their fixtures, so all these teams have an unfair sporting advantage over us. its ridiculous and embarrassing that Scottish football is STILL a clusterfuck ,existing only to service the needs of 2 clubs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 The Rangers back in the top league the SFA and the spfl will be orgasmic, and sure enough 1st chance they get the fixtures are manipulated to suit the ugly sisters they dont give a feck about the other 10 clubs. 4 years ago when Rangers went bust we had the chance to change the set up and organisation of the league for the better but the clubs shat it so now its back to pandering to the ugly sisters to the detriment of every other club...were the last 4 years a dream as already it seems like they never happened 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 My views are clear and believe the club are in the wrong for not clarifying the situation before setting budgets and writing up the sales pitch for season tickets. The statement issued is an utter embarrassment and the sooner we move on the better. I understand the financial 'fair play' argument but where does the sporting disadvantage stem from? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I think given the financial implications these games bring and the resources what they are in Scotland, the SPFL would have arranged the fixtures accordingly and evenly. They haven't, so we move on. Complaining about it in such a public manner plays right into the bigot brothers hands. What should have happened is all parties should have discussed prior to releasing the list. Terrible lack of planning and communication. Absolutely pish poor all round from SPFL, but expect nothing else given their previous. Us throwing a public tantrum is the wrong way to deal with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Should have gave them the full south stand in the play off and banked the cash instead of acting Billy big baws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegiewell Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Whilst I appreciate the need for revenue I think the statement sends out the worst possible message to Well fans and Scottish football in general. We can't complain when the media and others put the 'Old Firm' on a pedestal when our club does it the second Rangers get into the top league. The amount of gloating h*ns on social media thinking they're now vital to the game is sickening. On a personal basis the fewer games against them at Fir Park the better. I don't want my 5 year old to hear the bigoted p1sh they come out with. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1991 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 The other thing is the club said season ticket prices were raised partly as a result of "cat A" games however this isn't now the case, for the record I was happy with the price rise anyway so not complaining but can see the club's view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 My views are clear and believe the club are in the wrong for not clarifying the situation before setting budgets and writing up the sales pitch for season tickets. The statement issued is an utter embarrassment and the sooner we move on the better. I understand the financial 'fair play' argument but where does the sporting disadvantage stem from? I think the theory is that you have more chance of beating the Old Firm on your own patch. Rightly or wrongly, that's the shit folk are shovelling. Never been so embarrassed by the off field conduct of the club... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Couple of points worth considering from the unfair sporting advantage point of view........for argument's sake. Unfortunately Motherwell are likely to lose to Celtic and Rangers wherever we play them. The gap in financial resources is likely to ensure that remains the case. To a great degree that makes the odd victory or draw even sweeter. Better then to play them away from home more often IF it means we then get to play teams more often at Fir Park that we are more likely to beat. Does playing Hamilton at home twice give us the possibility of more points than playing Celtic twice at Fir Park? Also does it mean we would have less away games against those teams we need to beat to remain in the top division? Perhaps it is Motherwell that are being given an unfair sporting advantage over the teams likely to be their closest rivals. As regards arranging the fixtures to suit Rangers and Celtic. Pre split, Rangers are away twice to all three of Celtic, Aberdeen and Hearts. I hardly think playing Motherwell twice at Ibrox is giving them much of an advantage. I'm willing to bet they would rather play either of those three twice at Ibrox if it meant playing us twice at Fir Park. Given they are all likely to finish top six, it will be interesting to see if Rangers get all three at Ibrox post split. Perhaps it is Rangers that are being unfairly treated. Or perhaps they are just being treated the same as any other newly promoted team. The financial side of things is a different matter and it is here I feel Motherwell have been treated disgracefully. The timing of the only home Aberdeen game and the limited number of Celtic and Rangers games will have an adverse impact. We do get Hearts at home twice though, who could end up bringing as many supporters as Rangers would have given their fans' intention to body swerve Fir Park. I do agree that the SPFL leadership should have highlighted the fact that the unwritten rule re playing Rangers and Celtic at home twice pre spilt would not apply to enable Clubs to budget accordingly (or individual Clubs could have checked). Interesting to see if that arrangement will return season after next when Rangers have finished top six and are not the newly promoted team. Then again, we could always complain if we don't get to entertain Hibs twice at Fir Park given they usually bring a fair amount of supporters with them. Most teams could look at their fixtures and find cause for complaint. But some times you win and sometimes you lose. I did not hear Mr Burrows complain when (I think) we got an extra home game against Celtic recently. Apologies if I am wrong on that one. Just finish top six and all will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Should have gave them the full south stand in the play off and banked the cash instead of acting Billy big baws. Didn't most of the gate receipts for the play off game go to the SPFL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Didn't most of the gate receipts for the play off game go to the SPFL?It might well have done. Like a lot of people I thought that game signalled the end of our club 'knowing our place' with that lot. A year later we are back on our knees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 If the fixtures were set by a fixed formula or were completely random we'd have no right to complain but they obviously aren't so we should stand up for our own interest. On the other hand we should be getting our point across before this happens. Moaning about travelling distances at certain times is pathetic. Scotland's a small country compared to other leagues and other teams are doing much more travelling than us. If you don't want to travel join a regional league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 I've not really got much to add beyond what I posted in the other thread however my main issue here is that the club are, in my opinion, arguing simply to deflect from their own shortcomings and the manner they've gone about it. Yes there is a financial case that could be addressed as a result of the fixture anomalies but that would surely been better to have been raised privately and discussed between member clubs rather than publicly in a manner that makes the club's attitude to OF fixtures look like one big cash-grab. Let's be clear about what appears to have happened: - The club appears to have made an incorrect assumption about how the fixtures will be weighted. - That apparent assumption was based, not on an actual rule, but on an unwritten understanding last invoked some five years or so ago under a previous league body. - Given that they say they had no communication from SPFL it appears they did not check that the assumption was indeed correct. - They then proceeded to increase the price of and (mis-?)sell season books off the back of their version of events and budget for the coming season based on an assumption that they had not verified. - The SPFL have scheduled fixtures in the same way they did last year and the club have thrown their toys out the pram because it has become apparent that their assumption was misjudged. On the whole appears to have been the club's error. I understand the financial argument completely, yes there is an unfortunate knock-on in financial terms with some clubs benefiting against others however unless MFC (& PTFC) have some sort of correspondence with the SPFL that even remotely suggests that the had a valid reason to make an assumption that the fixture scheduling would fundamentally change from last season or that there is evidence that there was a broad understanding between all member clubs that the fixtures would be altered in such a way and that the SPFL simply haven't implemented it then they really don't have a case. If all MFC have to their argument is "but that's not how it was 5 years ago", "but we we thought it would change", "...because Rangers", "...it's no' fair" then they need to take it on the chin and move on because unless they can point to a written rule that backs up their claim then the SPFL are quite entitled to simply tell the club, in no uncertain terms, to sit down. If their argument boils down to "we thought it'd be the same as the last time there was a Rangers in the league" then that is just weak. MFC's statement is an embarrassing piece of bluster. It's a cringeworthy knee-jerk piece of prose, seemingly written whilst looking in blind panic at a hole in their budget the club hadn't anticipated. Ill advised is the best I can say about it. The part that I take most exception to though is this statement: "There was no hint to this fundamental change" I'm sorry but there appears to have been no fundamental change between this year and last. The SPFL have handled the promotion/relegation issue in the same way they did last year, and presumably the year before that. A fundamental change would have been a change from the status quo, that hasn't happened. A fundamental change would be to revert to a fixture manipulation from 5 years ago that focuses on the basis of the size of fanbase of two clubs, that hasn't happened. In short, there has been no fundamental change which is presumably why the SPFL didn't feel the need to hint at any change. In my opinion if any assumption was being made it's that the SPFL fixtures would be handled the same way they were last season. That would be a reasonable assumption, it's not just saying that in 20/20 hindsight it's just a reasonable approach to planning ie: that unless told otherwise the process will be the same as the year prior. Even more so given we're being told there had been no communication from the SPFL that there will be any change to the way they planned to go about things. To then proceed in the way that it appears MFC have, to budget based on their own unconfirmed assumption, to raise ST prices and draft ST copy based on an assumption that hasn't been checked or verified but is simply because "that's how it was before"...naive doesn't ever cover it. Rather than stamping their feet, posting statements and demanding that immediate action be taken the MFC board would have been better served taking a moment looking at what has actually happened: they have misjudged the situation, SPFL have processed the fixtures in the same way they have in recent years and crucially Rangers have been treated as any other promoted club. The next questions they should have been asking were: "is criticising the SPFL for treating the fixtures the same as they have the year before a valid argument?", "is being seen to argue publicly that Rangers and Celtic should be viewed as special cases really a credible line for us to take?" the answer to both those question is "No", it's really not a good look at all. For a club whose COO is normally pretty savvy and in tune with how they're perceived in a PR sense the whole episode was a really disappointing misjudgement. In my opinion, it really would be best for the club to just draw a line under this and move on. By all means raise questions privately but the way Friday played out was utterly embarrassing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Moaning about travelling distances at certain times is pathetic. Scotland's a small country compared to other leagues and other teams are doing much more travelling than us. If you don't want to travel join a regional league. What a ridiculous statement. Scotland may be a small country, but it's infrastructure isn't exactly cutting edge. Motherwell to Dingwall takes 4hrs minimum by car, that at least by train if you can tie up all your connections. A midweek 7.30pm kick off means folk would have to leave a 3pm to get there. To a lot of folk, thats a holiday/time off work same with Aberdeen to Motherwell - 4hrs minimum again, limited public transport as its boxing day. Simply fact is the scheduling of these fixtures will have a dramatic affect on attendance, so please enlighten me how complaining about it is "pathetic?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 What a ridiculous statement. Scotland may be a small country, but it's infastructure isn't exactly cutting edge. Motherwell to Dingwall takes 4hrs minimum by car, that at least by train if you can tie up all your connections. A mindeeek 7.30pm kick off means folk would have to leave a 3pm to get there. To a lot of folk, thats a holiday/time off work.same with Aberdeen to Motherwell - 4hrs minimum again, limited public transport as its boxing day. Simply fact is the scheduling of these fixtures will have a dramatic affect on attendance, so please enlighten me how complaining about it is "pathetic?" I wouldn't go as far as to call it pathetic but given ICT and Ross County fans are making these journeys every other week through an entire season, regardless of whether they're travelling in small numbers or not, for other member clubs to be singling them out and moaning seems to lack a bit of empathy and self-awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Simply fact is the scheduling of these fixtures will have a dramatic affect on attendance, so please enlighten me how complaining about it is "pathetic?" The difference between a Saturday and a Wednesday for us is about 200 people. ICT and County have to play midweek. Apart from playing each other it's roughly 2-3 hours travel for everyone. What are the league supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonicg Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Superbly put Capt_oats. With regards our statement, it's something Jim Traynor would've been proud of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 The difference between a Saturday and a Wednesday for us is about 200 people. ICT and County have to play midweek. Apart from playing each other it's roughly 2-3 hours travel for everyone. What are the league supposed to do. Still doesn't explain how its pathetic?? Get Ross County and Inverness travel every week, but when we have midweek games come into affect it should be catered for as best as possible. Inverness/Ross County vs St Johnstone/Dundee makes more sense than them vs Kilmarnock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 To me this sums up the total Scottish league arrangement in a nut shell.........the sooner we move to a 16 team Premier league and regionalise the lower leagues the better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 I normally hate a Monday at work after getting beat by either of the ugly sisters. I'm not looking forward to hearing their shite tomorrow and we've not kicked a fucking ball yet. Thanks for that Motherwell statement writer guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Still doesn't explain how its pathetic?? Get Ross County and Inverness travel every week, but when we have midweek games come into affect it should be catered for as best as possible. Inverness/Ross County vs St Johnstone/Dundee makes more sense than them vs Kilmarnock. Would you have all the derbies midweek or just the Highland ones? It's pathetic because it's small time thinking. Look at Newcastle's fixtures for next season if you want to see travelling, look at teams in Germany, France or Italy. It's stupid to argue that we want to be a serious football nation with our clubs doing well in Europe then start greeting about an extra 2 hours travelling. You can't even seriously argue it puts people off travelling because 95% plus of our support wouldn't go for 3pm on a Saturday anyway. If anything if you want to maximise attendance you should put the distant games midweek and the nearby games that we carry a good support to on the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 What a ridiculous statement. Scotland may be a small country, but it's infastructure isn't exactly cutting edge. Motherwell to Dingwall takes 4hrs minimum by car, that at least by train if you can tie up all your connections. A mindeeek 7.30pm kick off means folk would have to leave a 3pm to get there. To a lot of folk, thats a holiday/time off work.same with Aberdeen to Motherwell - 4hrs minimum again, limited public transport as its boxing day. Simply fact is the scheduling of these fixtures will have a dramatic affect on attendance, so please enlighten me how complaining about it is "pathetic?" It takes longer to drive from Dingwall to Aberdeen than it does Motherwell to Aberdeen. Both are less than 3 hours. It's the clubs fault again that long travel time midweek fixtures cause we must have 4 Old Firm games and must have a chance at 2 home games against each, and we must have the split. And the Clubs must have 38 games in the league. They're all pathetic excuses for business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted June 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Aye you say that repeatedly, but at a sensitive time of year where people who maybe live in the far flung corners of the UK/planet return home and want to maximise the time with their nearest and dearest. Surely common sense is inconveniencing as few people as possible to get as many people as possible to attend games? Around Christmas and midweek, the league should look to group together County, ICT, Aberdeen Dundee, St. Johnstone & Hearts (before anyone jumps on it I recognise the distance between Edinburgh and Dingwall, I'd advocate Hearts playing the other grouping of Killie, Accies, Partick, the Haudit and Doddit plus us. plus St. Johnstone/Dundee. Christ .... everyone on here to a man (or woman) says our game is on it's arse, there should be more done, here is a prime example of one of those instances and this and the other thread are full of apologists. Rangers and Celtic are a different case to everyone else, if you choose not to think or understand that then I don't know how many posts on a board will make you. Long and short is the league should have never got to a stage where they released such a hashed pigfuck, all thats been managed is some teams are rubbing their hands, some are feeling the pinch and a lot of fans are arguing over something that should never have seen the light of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 If people really wanted to spend "precise" time with their family they'd be advocating for a total shutdown over the Festive Period. Also yes, there is a large number of apologists for the clubs continued ineptitude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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