1991 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I know there has been alot of negativity aimed toward both the league cup revamp and the u20s in the challange cup. I have actually enjoyed pre season this year; Yes the East Stirling game was poor but I enjoyed the trip to Annan and was gutted to miss Stranraer but overall I think it has been better. The u20s the other night was also enjoyable and now that we have drawn Airdrie adds a bit of interest and might also allow guys like Dom to play and we can see what he can do. I'm not suggesting they are perfect but I enjoyed the change, would be interested to see if I'm on my own or would we rather go back to the way it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Agree totally and I'm the same enjoyed Annan was great day out also was at under 20s game in midweek and our cup home games so for me it's great as I rarely go to friendlies so had my fix in July so much so going to Kilmarnock tomorrow as well as enjoying the footie these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwellhighland Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I think they've been a breath of fresh air and any concerns beforehand have disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geedub Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm intae it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I like the cup format that the under 20s are in but the only thing i find farcical about that is the clubs from Northern Ireland and Wales who come in, imagine the embarrassment if one of their clubs won a scottish domestic cup competition, apart from that i like the new formats of the cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I like the cup format that the under 20s are in but the only thing i find farcical about that is the clubs from Northern Ireland and Wales who come in, imagine the embarrassment if one of their clubs won a scottish domestic cup competition, apart from that i like the new formats of the cups. Is it a domestic cup now? It's not as if it's the league or Scottish cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 The format for the league cup is OK, although it remains to be seen how long clubs take it seriously in future seasons. I can see certain teams worrying more about their glamour friendlies than games against Annan. My bigger concern is that those in charge think tinkering with the formats is the solution to the underlying malaise in our game. So rather than tackling the issues across the board, we are, to quote that intellectual heavyweight Sarah Palin, putting liptstick on a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwellhighland Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 The format for the league cup is OK, although it remains to be seen how long clubs take it seriously in future seasons. I can see certain teams worrying more about their glamour friendlies than games against Annan. Those certain teams will never be in at that stage, it'll be teams who would be playing a friendly against Annan anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I predict at least one of those teams (and I include Aberdeen and Hearts in there) will be in the group stage next season. And it remains to be seen how seriously Celtic takes the next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwellhighland Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 You are probably correct but I don't see them playing any friendlies that they'd take more seriously than a competitive cup game, even if they did then we shouldn't really care. And let's hope Celtic don't take the next round seriously! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm told Ayr were treating it as pre-season, until it became apparent they could qualify. Had we beaten Rangers, you'd have probably seen more squad rotation from us, and in future seasons we may be able to do this with a better start, or easier 2nd seed. I'm hoping its a good time to play Celtic, and even a 1/4 full Parkhead is as good a gate as we could hope for at this stage of the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistandshout1983 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Much prefer this new format to the old format, 4 cup games already and still in the cup which hasnt happened too often recently. Much better than the usual pre-season dross. Always prefer competitive games to friendlies and I have heard a lot of negativity towards it and cant understand it. Seriously think any club who treats this as a diddy tournament or part of the friendlies before the big event to consider withdrawing and let someone else take their place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I would scrap the penalties in the league cup. Other than that, I think it was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 I would scrap the penalties in the league cup. Other than that, I think it was very good. I can see why they did that, try to create something a bit different. I'd persevere with the penalties, as it's a bit early to say if that has been a success or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 I know there has been alot of negativity aimed toward both the league cup revamp and the u20s in the challange cup. I have actually enjoyed pre season this year; Yes the East Stirling game was poor but I enjoyed the trip to Annan and was gutted to miss Stranraer but overall I think it has been better. You've hit upon the very reason I don't like it. We've taken one of the three major honours in this country and turned it into "pre season". As for the Irn Bru Cup, what is good for the U20s isn't necessarily good for the senior clubs. Any senior competition is devalued by bringing in 'colt' teams and bringing in teams from Wales and Northern Ireland smacks of novelty for the sake of it and is potentially disastrous for the competition. What if the final is Celtic U20s vs Afan Lido? The core concept of the cup is "a chance for lower league clubs to win a cup". That's what it should be about not U20s (who have their own cup) and Welsh and Irish teams. Celtic U20s are better funded than almost every team in the bottom 2 divisions and perhaps even some in the Championship, Dumbarton for instance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 I don't see the Celtic u20s winning this. They couldn't even make the youth final last season. What level does the average Celtic U20 go onto play at? If the lower leagues teams take it seriously they will beat them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 I like what they have done with the league cup. Having the final in the first half of the season is good. Not sure about having the euro teams seeded as theyve already had preferential treatment by being given a by unto the knockout stages. Definitely an argument for making it an unseeded draw from there. I dont like the challenge cup revamp. As stated above it was a chance for the lower league teams to play for some silverware. Should have remained so. The U20s already have a cup competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwellhighland Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Not sure about having the euro teams seeded as theyve already had preferential treatment by being given a by unto the knockout stages. Definitely an argument for making it an unseeded draw from there. 100% this. I hate all seeding in cup football (including Champs League), if you're good enough to win the tournament then you are good enough to beat every other team so no need for an extra advantage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Any senior competition is devalued by bringing in 'colt' teams So 95% of Spanish leagues - so their whole league system and 50% of their cup competitions are devalued. Cool, our league 2 in Scotland is more "value" than Spain's Segunda, Portugal's Secunda etc. all because of "B" teams bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 So 95% of Spanish leagues - so their whole league system and 50% of their cup competitions are devalued. Cool, our league 2 in Scotland is more "value" than Spain's Segunda, Portugal's Secunda etc. all because of "B" teams bad. All I am going to say about this is that is a very simplistic comparison between two completely different football cultures. Oh....and good luck growing oranges in your garden this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 All this talk about the league cup sections being better than pre seasons friendlies seems to infer that they replaced the pre season friendlies they didnt they just moved them forward. So the actual competitive structure hasnt changed from our normal start to a season, its just moved it forward. The LC format is just as dire as it was in the 70s. The only upside is the attempt to have competitive games in the "better weather". I realise this year the weather been shite with all the rain but folk that say our weather isnt much better in the summer than the winter are just talking bollox. We have seen from the broadcasters reaction there is money to be had by filling summer schedules with football. However thats where the upswing ends. Look at the attendances at the LC ties this format hasnt improved them one little bit. The LC is an utterly devalued tournament and has been for 20 years, fans are really only interested from semi finals onwards. The fact we let some teams enter late is just making that worse. Seeding is actually killing alot of sport cos it basically rigs the outcome. If we want to try summer football let try it and move the real stuff into the summer months and if it doesnt work change it back its hardly difficult, although Scottish football and traditionalist always find a way for not doing something. there is zero imagination from the clubs and the suits. In my 40 years watching Motherwell the changes have been 1. all seated stadia, forced on clubs 2. Introduce league cup sections, tried and failed 40 years ago. 3. Introduce the winter break, tried and failed 10 years ago 4. Change the number of teams in the Top league to "allow development" and produce better football, tried countless times and every one utterly failed. No wonder the games is dying on its arse , Scottish football only re-does things that have been tried and failed and we wonder why our game is still shite. Einstein definition of stupidity was "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome". Christ we cant even name our leagues without copying our southern neighbours.Those running our game really do get money for old rope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 All this talk about the league cup sections being better than pre seasons friendlies seems to infer that they replaced the pre season friendlies they didnt they just moved them forward. So the actual competitive structure hasnt changed from our normal start to a season, its just moved it forward. The LC format is just as dire as it was in the 70s. The only upside is the attempt to have competitive games in the "better weather". I realise this year the weather been shite with all the rain but folk that say our weather isnt much better in the summer than the winter are just talking bollox. We have seen from the broadcasters reaction there is money to be had by filling summer schedules with football. However thats where the upswing ends. Look at the attendances at the LC ties this format hasnt improved them one little bit. The LC is an utterly devalued tournament and has been for 20 years, fans are really only interested from semi finals onwards. The fact we let some teams enter late is just making that worse. Seeding is actually killing alot of sport cos it basically rigs the outcome. If we want to try summer football let try it and move the real stuff into the summer months and if it doesnt work change it back its hardly difficult, although Scottish football and traditionalist always find a way for not doing something. There was a fair bit of discussion about the league cup /pre season friendlies on here some months ago, with many saying that the latter would be scrapped. That was never going to happen. As you say all thats happened is that the season has started earlier, with a shorter close season. Attendances in the main have been poor but that was to be expected. Its not summer football proper - if it were the whole season would be rejigged to start perhaps in March and run to November or whatever. I too hate the seeding as yes its tantamount to rigging, which detracts from the unpredictability and excitement of the tournament. As far as the geographic group split is concerned I can understand the cost minimisation reason behind it but it does mean that teams are going to face a smaller pool of potential opponents as time goes on; leading to staleness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregyScotland Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 There was a fair bit of discussion about the league cup /pre season friendlies on here some months ago, with many saying that the latter would be scrapped. That was never going to happen. As you say all thats happened is that the season has started earlier, with a shorter close season. Attendances in the main have been poor but that was to be expected. Its not summer football proper - if it were the whole season would be rejigged to start perhaps in March and run to November or whatever. I too hate the seeding as yes its tantamount to rigging, which detracts from the unpredictability and excitement of the tournament. As far as the geographic group split is concerned I can understand the cost minimisation reason behind it but it does mean that teams are going to face a smaller pool of potential opponents as time goes on; leading to staleness. Regarding the staleness of the groups, Im not sure if this is the case, but changing the groups about year on year might be good. For example next year we are in a group with Falkirk, Stirling, Stenhousemuir etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 All this talk about the league cup sections being better than pre seasons friendlies seems to infer that they replaced the pre season friendlies they didnt they just moved them forward. So the actual competitive structure hasnt changed from our normal start to a season, its just moved it forward. The LC format is just as dire as it was in the 70s. The only upside is the attempt to have competitive games in the "better weather". I realise this year the weather been shite with all the rain but folk that say our weather isnt much better in the summer than the winter are just talking bollox. We have seen from the broadcasters reaction there is money to be had by filling summer schedules with football. However thats where the upswing ends. Look at the attendances at the LC ties this format hasnt improved them one little bit. The LC is an utterly devalued tournament and has been for 20 years, fans are really only interested from semi finals onwards. The fact we let some teams enter late is just making that worse. Seeding is actually killing alot of sport cos it basically rigs the outcome. If we want to try summer football let try it and move the real stuff into the summer months and if it doesnt work change it back its hardly difficult, although Scottish football and traditionalist always find a way for not doing something. there is zero imagination from the clubs and the suits. In my 40 years watching Motherwell the changes have been 1. all seated stadia, forced on clubs 2. Introduce league cup sections, tried and failed 40 years ago. 3. Introduce the winter break, tried and failed 10 years ago 4. Change the number of teams in the Top league to "allow development" and produce better football, tried countless times and every one utterly failed. No wonder the games is dying on its arse , Scottish football only re-does things that have been tried and failed and we wonder why our game is still shite. Einstein definition of stupidity was "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome". Christ we cant even name our leagues without copying our southern neighbours.Those running our game really do get money for old rope. Begrudgingly agree with pretty much all of that. I raised the point a week or so ago about the strain on the squad resulting from the pre-season becoming more pressured and having 'must win' games so early in the season and I got kicked to bits for it. I know I got kicked for this before but would we be without Moult now if we'd had a regular pre-season? Make no bones about it, a league cup run will make a difference to club finances and the likes of killie and Ross County will be doing some early season and unplanned recalculations. Elongating the season and shortening the close season makes little practical sense to me. I have absolutely no issue with the format of the cup but IMHO it can only work and be of more appeal if it were given room to breath within a less densely populated fixture card and a more open league structure. Square peg round hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Can you explain your link between the timing of Moult's procedure and the pre season programme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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