Former Motherwell Fc Players Thread

[AllyMax]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Obviously I've made my feelings clear on the quality of Scottish football for a while now.

I think it's worth noting though that the number of Scottish players in our league is now less than 40%.  About 38% the last time I looked which is an absolute disgrace.

Secondly the number of U21 Scottish players that are getting even semi regular football was something like 4.  4 in the whole league.

We need to stop importing garbage and start actually focusing on youth development. 

It's not like the standard of the league prohibits it.

Absolutely agree, but the stakes are too high to give youngsters the chance to learn (and make inevitable mistakes and form dips). A sixteen or eighteen team division might though.

In my lifetime (which is a long fuckin' time by the way) every change that has been made to Scottish football has made things worse. The move away from Div 1 and 2 in 1975 was supposed to 'make football more competitive and improve the international team' and all the reincarnations of the 10/12 team top division since have literally made things worse, although, for me, the biggest and potentially fatal blow is TV, which ploughs BILLIONS into the EPL, which trickles to the championship and below but not to Scotland. I said in an earlier post that English Sky money is the very reason we're compteting financially with Tier 4/5/6 sides for players. 

I'd much rather see a league set up with proper financial sustainability rules, that stops the likes of Rangers only existing because of constant shareholder and investor 'soft loans' and teams, while free to buy and atract players, have to breed their own and crucially, can't build up debt year after year after year. 

I could go on all night about this, but basically, finance has fucked Scottish football, whether it be Celtic and Rangers spunking money to try to compete in Europe, or the rest of the SPL teams spending money they don't have to try and compete with Celtic and Rangers or stay in top league to keep the income the SPL gets from TV.

Lets get rid of Celtic and Rangers out the league, make teams live within their means and that will ensure a more competitive league. 

 

[Yabba's Turd]

3 hours ago, AllyMax said:

 

Lets get rid of Celtic and Rangers out the league, make teams live within their means and that will ensure a more competitive league. 

 

Go back to splitting gate receipts, let them get their revenue from their TV streams and hospitality, revoke 90% member voting and rebuild Scottish football.

[Kmcalpin]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:48 PM, Yoshi-1991 said:

I would say the fact we can't financially compete for players with league 2 teams tells you he's probably not far off the mark.

Before folk start to pile in, this NOT a political post, purely factual.

Most of our top league players are paid £50,000 per year or more  and many over £100,000.  Recent tax changes being brought forward in Holyrood mean that they will be paying  more tax playing in Scotland than in England (roughly £1.5K annually at £50K to £7.5K annually at £200K). At best that'll make very little difference to Scots' clubs attrativeness to English based players, or ability to retain our own youngsters, but at worst it could make it considerably worse. 

Just another ingredient in the mix in our ongoing battle with English or foreign clubs.  

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Before folk start to pile in, this NOT a political post, purely factual.

Most of our top league players are paid £50,000 per year or more  and many over £100,000.  Recent tax changes being brought forward in Holyrood mean that they will be paying  more tax playing in Scotland than in England (roughly £1.5K annually at £50K to £7.5K annually at £200K). At best that'll make very little difference to Scots' clubs attrativeness to English based players, or ability to retain our own youngsters, but at worst it could make it considerably worse. 

Just another ingredient in the mix in our ongoing battle with English or foreign clubs.  

I am not piling on, I am adding my tuppence worth to broaden out your point.

I think the wider fiscal context is important to consider when discussing the new tax rates for Scotland. What do people living and working in Scotland get for 'free' at the point of service/provision that they would have to pay for in England? And does that 'saving' outweigh or balance with the extra taxation?

Succinctly, and for example, some will now pay more tax in Scotland to help pay for certain public services and education, whereas those equivalent pay less tax in England but have to pay for certain public services and education. Progressive taxation allows people living and working in Scotland to access public services, which footballers also need and use. 

Therefore, I think the new tax brackets are ultimately a moot point to footballers, and everyone else earning a good wage in Scotland, when the wider fiscal context is understood, which I am sure most sensibly-minded people in Scotland are aware of. It's pretty depressing to see those earning £100K+ per year complaining in the media recently about having to pay a few extra pence of tax on the pound when the average salary of those around them is about a third of what they're earning. 

Tl;dr - we get things for 'free' in Scotland as we pay tax to get them; they pay for things in England as they don't pay the same levels of tax required to get them for 'free'. I realise this is a simple summary, but it's also based on fact. 

[David]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Progressive taxation allows people living and working in Scotland to access public services, which footballers also need and use. 

Do they? Let's say for argument's sake that such services are health, education, justice, rural affairs, housing and the environment.

I'd imagine most footballers get the majority of their health needs seen to by the clubs they play for. And their families will be on private health care if they're sensible. 

I don't really see the likes of Liam Kelly or Stephen O'Donnell sending their kids to Clyde Valley High or their local equivalent for schooling. I'd imagine there'll be private options suggested by the club when players move to Motherwell. 

On housing, I don't think they'll be getting papped into council houses in Muirhouse or Craigneuk. 

They will use some services, but not most of them in my opinion.

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Therefore, I think the new tax brackets are ultimately a moot point to footballers, and everyone else earning a good wage in Scotland, when the wider fiscal context is understood, which I am sure most sensibly-minded people in Scotland are aware of.

It'll be far from a moot point to players and their agents. Especially players coming into Scotland from outside. When a player from outside Scotland is weighing up a move and the salary is higher in England due to lesser taxation I'd imagine a fair amount of them will opt for England. Scotland already has a tough job convincing players to leave England or choose Scotland over England as it is. 

I know if I was a foreigner and was looking at moving to Britain, with everything else being reasonably equal (weather, language, lifestyle etc) I'd go wherever I could make the most money. Especially if I was a player who wasn't earning millions of pounds or Euros every year. It's a short career, and I'd rather that more of my salary goes into my savings account than into the pockets of the Scottish government.

Basically, those players won't give a flying f*ck about what sensibly-minded Scottish people think. They're coming here to carry out their profession, earn as much money as they can, and then move on eventually.

[wellfan]

42 minutes ago, David said:

Do they? Let's say for argument's sake that such services are health, education, justice, rural affairs, housing and the environment.

I'd imagine most footballers get the majority of their health needs seen to by the clubs they play for. And their families will be on private health care if they're sensible. 

I don't really see the likes of Liam Kelly or Stephen O'Donnell sending their kids to Clyde Valley High or their local equivalent for schooling. I'd imagine there'll be private options suggested by the club when players move to Motherwell. 

On housing, I don't think they'll be getting papped into council houses in Muirhouse or Craigneuk. 

They will use some services, but not most of them in my opinion.

It'll be far from a moot point to players and their agents. Especially players coming into Scotland from outside. When a player from outside Scotland is weighing up a move and the salary is higher in England due to lesser taxation I'd imagine a fair amount of them will opt for England. Scotland already has a tough job convincing players to leave England or choose Scotland over England as it is. 

I know if I was a foreigner and was looking at moving to Britain, with everything else being reasonably equal (weather, language, lifestyle etc) I'd go wherever I could make the most money. Especially if I was a player who wasn't earning millions of pounds or Euros every year. It's a short career, and I'd rather that more of my salary goes into my savings account than into the pockets of the Scottish government.

Basically, those players won't give a flying f*ck about what sensibly-minded Scottish people think. They're coming here to carry out their profession, earn as much money as they can, and then move on eventually.

It's probably impossible to have a reasoned discussion on this topic without individuals nailing their colours/biases/misunderstandings to the mast, so maybe let’s move on and return this thread to a discussion about former players.

[Spiderpig]

41 minutes ago, David said:

Do they? Let's say for argument's sake that such services are health, education, justice, rural affairs, housing and the environment.

I'd imagine most footballers get the majority of their health needs seen to by the clubs they play for. And their families will be on private health care if they're sensible. 

I don't really see the likes of Liam Kelly or Stephen O'Donnell sending their kids to Clyde Valley High or their local equivalent for schooling. I'd imagine there'll be private options suggested by the club when players move to Motherwell. 

On housing, I don't think they'll be getting papped into council houses in Muirhouse or Craigneuk. 

They will use some services, but not most of them in my opinion.

It'll be far from a moot point to players and their agents. Especially players coming into Scotland from outside. When a player from outside Scotland is weighing up a move and the salary is higher in England due to lesser taxation I'd imagine a fair amount of them will opt for England. Scotland already has a tough job convincing players to leave England or choose Scotland over England as it is. 

I know if I was a foreigner and was looking at moving to Britain, with everything else being reasonably equal (weather, language, lifestyle etc) I'd go wherever I could make the most money. Especially if I was a player who wasn't earning millions of pounds or Euros every year. It's a short career, and I'd rather that more of my salary goes into my savings account than into the pockets of the Scottish government.

Basically, those players won't give a flying f*ck about what sensibly-minded Scottish people think. They're coming here to carry out their profession, earn as much money as they can, and then move on eventually.

Far too much long winded pish to⁷ say this has feck all to do with the thread topic.

[David]

16 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Far too much long winded pish to⁷ say this has feck all to do with the thread topic.

You've said before that you don't like reading big words or too many sentences. I get it. But yet, you always find the time to reply 😂

[David]

19 minutes ago, wellfan said:

It's probably impossible to have a reasoned discussion on this topic without individuals nailing their colours/biases/misunderstandings to the mast, so maybe let’s move on and return this thread to a discussion about former players.

I have absolutely no biases in the matter, I don't even live in Scotland. All I'm saying is that for most footballers, money talks. And we see taxation being an issue in places like Italy and so forth, where players actively chose to not go there until the government implemented a law that benefited the top earners. They're actually discussing changing it again apparently, which is causing much discontent among the top clubs.

But yeah, if players have a choice between Scotland and England, and they'll get taxed less in England, that's where many of them will go.

[Spiderpig]

10 minutes ago, David said:

You've said before that you don't like reading big words or too many sentences. I get it. But yet, you always find the time to reply 😂

I reply because I live in hope that you will eventually realise its an Internet forum not the Oxford Union debating society and repy/ comment on posts etc short, sweet and to the point. 😀

[David]

1 minute ago, Spiderpig said:

I reply because I live in hope that you will eventually realise its an Internet forum not the Oxford Union debating society and repy/ comment on posts etc short, sweet and to the point. 😀

Feel free to move on, mate. It is an internet forum, and no one is forcing you to read anything you don't want to. God knows I usually scroll past most of your posts 😂

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, David said:

Feel free to move on, mate. It is an internet forum, and no one is forcing you to read anything you don't want to. God knows I usually scroll past most of your posts 😂

I don't post long winded pretentious shite though mate, you keep trying to sound clever and knowledgeable with lots  of irrelevant dross that most people pass by. You will get your point across and save yourself keyboard time by getting to the point, only saying like.

[David]

1 minute ago, Spiderpig said:

I don't post long winded pretentious shite though mate, you keep trying to sound clever and knowledgeable with lots  of irrelevant dross that most people pass by. You will get your point across and save yourself keyboard time by getting to the point, only saying like.

I'll keep posting as I like. You don't need to read it, or comment on it. 

[Spiderpig]

56 minutes ago, David said:

I'll keep posting as I like. You don't need to read it, or comment on it. 

Fair enough mate, i appreciate its hard to change bad habits once you get used to them you stick with your pleonastic posts it will give us something to sift through.

[Mad Dog]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Fair enough mate, i appreciate its hard to change bad habits once you get used to them you stick with your pleonastic posts it will give us something to sift through.

Bad habits? Like having to have the last word?

I'd rather read posts by someone with strong opinions - whether I agree or not - and provides reasoning for those opinions.

[smiddy]

oft ffs getting very petty on here lads      lets get back to some normal drivel

[grizzlyg]

Think a grizzly joke is required

[grizzlyg]

I only know 25 letters of the alphabet......I don't know y

[SteelmaninOZ]

14 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I only know 25 letters of the alphabet......I don't know y

Boom Boom 

[smiddy]

7 dwarfs in the bath all feeling happy                     so happy got out disgusted  BOOM

[Yassin]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:52 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

Obviously I've made my feelings clear on the quality of Scottish football for a while now.

I think it's worth noting though that the number of Scottish players in our league is now less than 40%.  About 38% the last time I looked which is an absolute disgrace.

Secondly the number of U21 Scottish players that are getting even semi regular football was something like 4.  4 in the whole league.

We need to stop importing garbage and start actually focusing on youth development. 

It's not like the standard of the league prohibits it.

IMO this is primarily because most of the half decent players are going down to England at 16 or 17 now rather than 21/22?

You can hopefully combat that by offering a clearer pathway like we're doing with Miller but when the Old Firm can't even hold onto guys like Gilmour or Doak I think the odds are slim for the rest of us.

[texanwellfan]

58 minutes ago, smiddy said:

7 dwarfs in the bath all feeling happy                     so happy got out disgusted  BOOM

I can never remember all their names, just Humpy and Gropey

[texanwellfan]

Just now, texanwellfan said:

I can never remember all their names, just Humpy and Gropey

And one for the old folks……..”Snow White thought 7 up was lemonade till she discovered Smirnoff.”

[wellfan]

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/kevin-van-veen-puts-rangers-28347034

[bobbybingo]

2 hours ago, wellfan said:

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/kevin-van-veen-puts-rangers-28347034

Shankland to Rangers, Van Veen to Hearts.