Give Youth A Chance

[Aidan bell]

This is my first post on the site so hi all.

I was interested to get folks opinion on the lack of Young players who are being given 1st team game time at the moment. McGhee seems to prefer bringing in players from the English 5th tier over throwing in our own young players. We have certainly had a degree of success with this (Moult & Johnson) however there seems to be a lot of very average players coming in ( Clay, Tait & Lucas). Has this been picked up by any regulars at the games?

[postiejim]

Only criteria young or old is they have tae be good enough, no use playing young players just for the sake of it. Some seem to think that we have half a dozen "wonder babes" in the youth team who McGhee won't play.

[Haggischomper]

They are all Motherwell players so who cares?

[Aidan bell]

I'll certainly support any player in claret & amber but having watched a few of the u20 games recently I think there's a few who should be getting a 1st team chance. I personally worry that McGhee has a reluctance to play young players?

[Desp]

This is my first post on the site so hi all.

I was interested to get folks opinion on the lack of Young players who are being given 1st team game time at the moment. McGhee seems to prefer bringing in players from the English 5th tier over throwing in our own young players. We have certainly had a degree of success with this (Moult & Johnson) however there seems to be a lot of very average players coming in ( Clay, Tait & Lucas). Has this been picked up by any regulars at the games?

 

Do you believe young players should be in the first team for the sake of it? Or do you believe there's players in the U20's who are better than those currently in the first team?

[capt_oats]

Only criteria young or old is they have tae be good enough, no use playing young players just for the sake of it. Some seem to think that we have half a dozen "wonder babes" in the youth team who McGhee won't play.

^^^ Basically this.

 

I've probably seen more of the u20s this season than I have the first team. There are some very decent players for that level in the side Campbell, MacLean and Turnbull being the obvious ones. Both Craigan and Lasley seem to have them playing an impressive style of football although I can only imagine the rage from the 'get it up the park' element of our support as they pass the ball across the back 4 or Campbell plays it back to his centre halves rather than lumping it.

 

The thing is the question of how ready they are for the first team. Using Dom Thomas as an example; he's been around the first team for the past few seasons but has thus far failed to make an impression, he's brushed off the ball fairly easily and concedes possession. Cadden and Hall have been successful examples of "giving youth a chance".

 

It's fairly idealistic, and dare I say it naive, to think that we're just going to chuck a bunch of the 20s into the first team in some sort of sink or swim experiment. Bear in mind the 20s lost (albeit narrowly) against a League 1 Airdrie side, we're playing a couple of levels above that.

 

There are players in the 20s who are worth a shot in the team, generally speaking they've been on the bench for first team games this season. The one issue I have is that if we're not going to use these players off the bench then surely it'd be in everyone's interests to have them out on dev loans and get competitive games. Though the caveat there is that another team/manager needs to want them and be willing to play them. At the moment Luke Watt is the only u20s player we have out on loan and I believe most of his appearances for Stranraer (again League 1 level) so far have been as a substitute.

[Haggischomper]

I'll certainly support any player in claret & amber but having watched a few of the u20 games recently I think there's a few who should be getting a 1st team chance. I personally worry that McGhee has a reluctance to play young players?

Hall, Cadden etc. Not sure what your point is unless you are mistaking McGhee for Craig Broon. I'm actually glad McGhee isn't flinging in youngsters that aren't ready. He sees the longer game here.

[middleeastdave]

It is a big jump from under 20's to first team, look at Dom Thomas a star when in under 20's but sorry to say I don't think he is going to make it, I know we have some success recently with Chris Cadden and Ben Hall that came through, but it certainly does not guarantee, I am sure McGhee will know who will be ready to take the step up!!!

[numpty]

I'll certainly support any player in claret & amber but having watched a few of the u20 games recently I think there's a few who should be getting a 1st team chance. I personally worry that McGhee has a reluctance to play young players?

Craigan himself has said on several occasions over the past year that he doesn't think most of them are ready for it yet, and I doubt he'd just be saying that because McGhee told him to.

 

That said, if they're not ready now, they're probably never going to be ready by playing in the u20s until they're too old, so somebody will have to make a leap of faith at some point.

[Aidan bell]

I'm not saying to fill the 1st team with young players but certainly 2 or 3 that I think could do at least as good a job, namely Campbell, McLean and Turnbull. I feel Dom Thomas is a good prospect but badly needs a loan to help him bulk up.

Neither Cadden or Hall were the finished article when they were dropped in to the 1st team but both, particularly Cadden has grabbed the opportunity and really kicked on.

If McGhee in discussion with Craigan feels they are not ready then get them out on loan otherwise they all end up going down the Dom Thomas route and not developing further?

[DunnyMFC]

It's all well and good wanting Mcghee to give the youth a chance but the U20's is different to senior level. I don't think some sections will give them a chance when they don't set the park on fire after 2 games.

 

EDIT: Hopefully some who get the chance can make it and eventually be regulars.

[sbcmfc]

Unfortunately youngsters often only get the chance through necessity.

 

Given how tight the league is, it's too big a gamble to throw them in and let them learn in the 1st team, so it's understandable that most bosses favour a bit of experience.

[Big Wispy Flossy]

There are always clamours to include youth players. For the last couple of years many of posters on here have suggested Thomas, watt and cadden are all worthy of inclusion in the first team based on their performances for the u20s. However, the difference in levels from u20s to first team is huge. Cadden granted has managed to bridge the gap but the other two will struggle in my honest opinion as will the others at this current moment in time. Indeed watt is struggling to get much game time for Stranraer in the third tier.

 

Craigan and McGhee are much better placed to judge on whether they are ready or not. I'm happy to trust their judgement.

[steelboy]

 

Do you believe young players should be in the first team for the sake of it? Or do you believe there's players in the U20's who are better than those currently in the first team?

 

There are young players better than Lee Lucas. There are young better than Craig Clay when he starts walking about. There are young players who should be in the team ahead of McFadden.

 

Cadden only got a shot because we got hammered 6-0 at Tynecastle and McGhee was under major pressure.

[Joeboy]

It's a conundrum I've thought about a lot. We obviously had success stories from our youth team in the early 2000s (McFadden, Pearson, Hammell, Clarkson, Quinn etc) and whilst these guys essentially became good players by playing regular first team football, you have to balance that with the fact that however eye catching that side were to watch whilst on song, they were incredibly inconsistent and finished bottom, so that shows the dangers in bringing them into the team in bulk.

 

What I will say is that I think we fail on development of players. Sometimes I think we are incredibly short sighted in having young players filling a space on the bench, instead of out on loan getting first team football. I think Dom Thomas is one in the current squad that could go that way, although I wonder if it's even too late now as he almost looks less exciting when he comes on now, compared to when he first started. Last season he went months at a time without any significant game time and for me we really should have sent out on loan. Going a bit further back, Bob McHugh sat on our bench for years and didn't get a loan spell until he was 23. That's a failed development if you are just beginning to get your first run of games there. Stuart Carswell was another. Why we didn't loan him out in 2011/12 is beyond me. That season McCall played Jennings, Lasley, Law and Forbes ahead of him at different points, as well as signing Stephen Hughes temporarily to avoid playing him and moving Hateley into midfield and bringing another defender in, yet Carswell continued to sit on our bench.

 

I don't think McGhee is reluctant to play youngsters if he thinks they're ready. Pitching Cadden and Hall in at the same point is something that one of our managers haven't done since Gannon. Even when he went to Aberdeen he pitched Fyvie (16) and Pawlett (18) straight into the team. I think there is some talent in our development squad just now, no doubt about it, Campbell is one in particular I think I'd like to see get a chance, but I do think we do need to get some of them some experience first.

 

Ferguson looked terribly out his depth when he was played in the 2014/15 season, but he impressed me in the youth cup final and looked more mature than Ben Hall did that night. That is still development level, but I wonder how much his three loan spells played in that. It would be interesting to see how he'd cope getting a chance in the first team now. Even when you look at Dylan Mackin, he seems to be prolific for our development squad, but only managed 2 in 15 on loan at Airdrie last season, in our third tier.

[Busta Nut]

I don't think there is a reluctance to play youth players.

 

When they are good enough, They will get a chance

[BigWeegieDosser]

blooding too many young players is a recipe for relegation .

It's all about a blend ;- of youth and experience

- of perspiration and inspiration

- of assassins and artists

- horses for courses

- synonyms and antonyms

[Del_Superwell]

Its an almost no win situation in a way for McGhee because lets say he does pitch in 2 or 3 youngsters and they were to struggle initially and make mistakes he would get criticised for playing them and fans would demand the older players reinstated to the starting line up. Opposite way round if an older player makes a mistake then a demand for a younger one comes in.

 

I believe you need to have the right balance, it was roughly around Christmas time last year we saw Hall and then Cadden emerge into the first team and I would suspect the same will happen again this season.

[Aidan bell]

Ultimately I would rather see players from our development team stepping up than signing Lucas on a 6 month deal? Faddy as assistant manager/player? and Clay? Previous posts are certainly correct in pointing out the step up from development league to 1st team but we don't need young players as the finished articles before they're put in. I personally would much rather see a Campbell, ferguson,Turnbull or Mackin out there making the odd mistake than average players from England's 5th tier. It's not that I think the players we have signed are way sort of the required standard it's just that I believe they're not any better than some players in our development team.

[BigWeegieDosser]

Ultimately I would rather see players from our development team stepping up than signing Lucas on a 6 month deal? Faddy as assistant manager/player? and Clay? Previous posts are certainly correct in pointing out the step up from development league to 1st team but we don't need young players as the finished articles before they're put in. I personally would much rather see a Campbell, ferguson,Turnbull or Mackin out there making the odd mistake than average players from England's 5th tier. It's not that I think the players we have signed are way sort of the required standard it's just that I believe they're not any better than some players in our development team.

A bit idealistic methinks, if you need a big job done, would you rather have it done by a group of first year apprentices, or by a time served tradesman who knows how to deal with virtually any eventuality. Assisted by a couple of seasoned labourers and perhaps an apprentice?

Balance, that's the key to surviving and thriving

The reality is that players from England's 5 th tier are the level we are at financially, and turning a decent profit from a sale each transfer window is more likely to be made from selling them back down south than trying to get large fees for Scottish youngsters. A harsh, but factual, economic truth I'm afraid

[Aidan bell]

I don't think it's idealistic at all to be honest. In fact I think it's a good footballing philosophy / business model for a club like ours to have. I'm not advising flooding the 1st team with loads of young players just 2 or 3 more that would compliment the more experienced pro's we have.

[CMWellfan]

A bit idealistic methinks, if you need a big job done, would you rather have it done by a group of first year apprentices, or by a time served tradesman who knows how to deal with virtually any eventuality. Assisted by a couple of seasoned labourers and perhaps an apprentice?

Balance, that's the key to surviving and thriving

The reality is that players from England's 5 th tier are the level we are at financially, and turning a decent profit from a sale each transfer window is more likely to be made from selling them back down south than trying to get large fees for Scottish youngsters. A harsh, but factual, economic truth I'm afraid

 

Rubbish.

 

Don't be getting carried away with a single transfer, our cross border trading over the last few years has cost us a fortune.

 

The money we have blown in wages on worthless crap.

 

My god.

 

Go list the last twenty English players at the club and total the transfer income v outgoings.

 

We'll need another three Marvin's to get anywhere near break even.

[CMWellfan]

Take this youth issue direct to the door of Alan Burrows.

 

It's him that's signing cheque after cheque after cheque for incoming players.

 

And if McGhee fucks off at the first decent offer ( again ) it will be Burrows who's left with egg on his face.

 

His role at the club is to secure it beyond McGhee's tenure.

 

And part of that is saying no.

 

No one is asking the club to flood the first team with youth.

 

But the bottom line is we are playing with a midfield incapable of lasting ninety minutes ( Cadden excepted ).

 

And that is down to Burrows and McGhee.

 

Laughable we can't give our under-20's the last few mins of a game.

 

2 - 0 down at home and bring on McFadden? come on to fuck.

[siebsbarmyarmy]

I'm a great believer off how do we know if they are good enough if we don't give them a chance and I don't mean 10-15 min cameos every two games. I mean a concerted run in the team.

 

Let's all not forget McGhee did not think Cadden was good enough last year to start away to Hearts and played Josh Law in CM. This resulted in a total shoeing.

 

We then brought Cadds in who hasn't looked back since.

[Desp]

 

There are young players better than Lee Lucas. There are young better than Craig Clay when he starts walking about. There are young players who should be in the team ahead of McFadden.

 

Cadden only got a shot because we got hammered 6-0 at Tynecastle and McGhee was under major pressure.

 

Lee Lucas has played what, 90 minutes of first team football? The guys in the youth team in that position (Campbell, Turnbell) have played 0 minutes. So to suggest one is better than the other, at first team level, is pure guesswork on your part.

 

FWIW, I struggle to see the point in the Lucas signing, as he doesn't appear to be a replacement for McHugh (if that's the reason he's signed). Clay, I think is coming on to a game. I take your point on fitness, but he's played 7 or 8 games this season. If he's still blowing out his arse after an hour six weeks down the line, then you'll have a valid point.

 

No arguments from me on the McFadden front. I think it's farcical when we're bringing him on for 10-15 minute appearances when there's others in the squad who, IMO, deserve it or need it more. He's got a job as an assistant manager so he should focus on that. The Faddy love-in after a meaningless goal on Friday was bizarre.

 

I don't believe for a minute there is some "Mark McGhee conspiracy" to refuse to play younger players. He's shown last season with Hall and Cadden that they will get a chance. I have no doubt he will do once again, once he and the management staff believe they are ready. I'm happy to trust their judgement on that, rather than a few punters on a messageboard. When they do get their chance, it's up to them to prove they're good enough, and mature enough, to take it. (See Hall and Cadden for examples, not Thomas or Watt).