Scottish Cup - Fourth Round Rangers V Motherwell Sat 21 Jan 12:30

[Ya Bezzer!]

 

You seriously think fans should follow our league despite all that's wrong with it? Folk have been voting with their feet since 1998.

 

I go every week, however I don't in anyway blame people who can't be arsed going any more because the Premiership is monotonous shite that has almost zero entertainment for your £300 odd basic for home games and £1000's for away games.

 

The reality is, the Scotish Cup is the only attractive competition to PATG supporters in Scotland these days, not just for our lapsed fans, but for every team's lapsed fans. People can leave the league matches as we'll play the same team a few weeks later anyway.

 

I've no doubt people would come back to Fir Park if it was attractive to do so. Scottish football isn't in any way attractive to the paying customer.

 

First of all it's not about 'entertainment' but even if it was didn't you get anything out of beating Accies 4-2 or Ross County 4-1 or getting an equalizer at Accies in the last minute or taking the lead against Celtic (even if we didn't hold on)? But you know what - when you come through the gates you don't know what you are going to get, it might be garbage, it might be great, it might be mediocre, it's the same world over, whatever the set up is. If you want entertainment go read the review section of the newspaper cos you fundamentally don't understand football or even it's basic appeal.

 

Secondly, good luck changing the entire economic and political structure of Scottish football when we can hardly break 3,000 at home matches. Stay away fans only weaken the club, financially and politically. The club seem to be putting but a fight against Project Bravo but good luck with that if we are in the Championship next season.

 

Facts are it's stand up and be counted time. You don't come, the budget falls and we struggle even more but some of our 'fans' want it all on a plate, like they are owed a successful club.

 

I'm absolutely tired of the general negativity of our fan base. People these days have completely unrealistic expectations and a tenuous grip on reality....but then look at the world we are living in, a bunch of adult babies constantly crying because the whole world isn't personally customised for their needs.

 

Here's the deal - you have no divine right to fantastic football, away wins, home wins, good players, a Scottish football system that you personally agree with, Premiership status or having a club to support.

 

If you can't deal with that then there are some big shocks coming your way.

[superward]

 

First of all it's not about 'entertainment' but even if it was didn't you get anything out of beating Accies 4-2 or Ross County 4-1 or getting an equalizer at Accies in the last minute or taking the lead against Celtic (even if we didn't hold on)? But you know what - when you come through the gates you don't know what you are going to get, it might be garbage, it might be great, it might be mediocre, it's the same world over, whatever the set up is. If you want entertainment go read the review section of the newspaper cos you fundamentally don't understand football or even it's basic appeal.

 

Secondly, good luck changing the entire economic and political structure of Scottish football when we can hardly break 3,000 at home matches. Stay away fans only weaken the club, financially and politically. The club seem to be putting but a fight against Project Bravo but good luck with that if we are in the Championship next season.

 

Facts are it's stand up and be counted time. You don't come, the budget falls and we struggle even more but some of our 'fans' want it all on a plate, like they are owed a successful club.

 

I'm absolutely tired of the general negativity of our fan base. People these days have completely unrealistic expectations and a tenuous grip on reality....but then look at the world we are living in, a bunch of adult babies constantly crying because the whole world isn't personally customised for their needs.

 

Here's the deal - you have no divine right to fantastic football, away wins, home wins, good players, a Scottish football system that you personally agree with, Premiership status or having a club to support.

 

If you can't deal with that then there are some big shocks coming your way.

 

I get the jist of your argument here. But, it's churlish and simplistic to just cast to the side Burn_Broomfield's comment.

 

If you are just having a bit of a rant at your perception of our fanbase then that's fine and I am not saying your not entitled to do that.

 

But, the reality is people have stopped coming to football for the reason Burn_Broomfield mentions (as well as many other competing priorities, entertainment or sporting choices). Whether you agree that that's what a 'fan' should or should not be doing is by the by really for improving things in the future. It's happening and it's happening not just at Fir Park. Shouting at people saying you should be coming no matter what and if you don't then your part of the problem isn't the way to go about getting people coming back. We saw how the threats of Les worked and were responded to....

 

As for the deal - from the other side - no club or league system has the divine right to bums on seats from anyone either which is what it sounds you think should happen.

[Kmcalpin]

 

People these days have completely unrealistic expectations

I don't agree with a lot of your post but you are right about this. The current standard of football isn't the best but its better than quite a few Well teams I've watched in the past. In years gone by there was less competition from other activities and fans habitually turned up and were entertained, although they weren't always satisfied with the results. However for many now the yardstick is the English Premiership and perhaps top European football. Anything less is sub standard. We're being brainwashed by the media and wall to wall coverage of top English games. Its just not realistic.

[postiejim]

We're being brainwashed by the media and wall to wall coverage of top English games.

Certainly are being brainwashed Dave ,a big percentage of the games screened are mediocre at best, slick covererage and multi million pound players doesn't guarantee entertainment.

[Jacol]

We're being brainwashed by the media and wall to wall coverage of top English games. Its just not realistic.

SKY Sports is a huge marketing platform for English Football, before SKY the English game was dying on it's feet, with claims the leagues were too large with too many meaningless games. Now with the slick presentation and constant adverts building up another "Super Sunday" the same meaningless games are now made out to be fantastic entertainment.

I actually think SKY do the Scottish game a huge disservice, the coverage given by BT is far better especially to non Old Firm games. If it was my choice in negotiating a new TV deal, I would favour a deal with BT over SKY any day.

[Dezz]

Just been listening to the MFC podcast and Mcghee's post match interview was discussed. I completely missed the comment about McDonald putting out his back carrying the team.

 

Can anyone clear up the context of this comment? Was it an obvious dig at the rest of the squad, or was it more of a dig at McDonald who maybe thinks or has commented that he believes he carries the team?

[Ya Bezzer!]

 

I get the jist of your argument here. But, it's churlish and simplistic to just cast to the side Burn_Broomfield's comment.

 

If you are just having a bit of a rant at your perception of our fanbase then that's fine and I am not saying your not entitled to do that.

 

But, the reality is people have stopped coming to football for the reason Burn_Broomfield mentions (as well as many other competing priorities, entertainment or sporting choices). Whether you agree that that's what a 'fan' should or should not be doing is by the by really for improving things in the future. It's happening and it's happening not just at Fir Park. Shouting at people saying you should be coming no matter what and if you don't then your part of the problem isn't the way to go about getting people coming back. We saw how the threats of Les worked and were responded to....

 

As for the deal - from the other side - no club or league system has the divine right to bums on seats from anyone either which is what it sounds you think should happen.

 

You don't have to come - but if you don't you should at least accept the consequences of not coming. Don't make out like you are doing anyone a favour, even yourself, cos one day you might not have a club to come back to, or at least a much reduced one. What you are doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Look at another fan owned club St. Mirren - attendances almost halved in 5 years and now heading to League 1 and with rumours of having to go part time to survive.

 

If that's what you want fine, but don't blame the manager, or even the players, because we have to operate at a lower budget due to a good 20% of our fan base being in a huff. Fan revenue is absolutely crucial now.

 

Like I've said - we are in a new era. You get what you put in. If you don't put in, we are only going one way.

 

So back to the game. It was tremendously disappointing to lose in the last minute to Rangers. But if you were there, or even listening on the radio or watching on TV just think about how it felt when Louis Moult scored that goal? Where else in life do you getting a feeling like that?

 

That's what Motherwell FC is, and that's what's at stake.

[superward]

I agree with the sentiment and in an ideal world everyone who is lapsed or comes occasionally would take the advice. But in reality it won't happen so we (as a club and as a whole) need to address the other issues to help.

 

For me - couldn't agree more on the feeling part. It's why I renew my season ticket every year and continue to be at games no matter what the previous week dished up.

[superward]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/spfl/15051665.Scott_McDonald_left_out_of_Motherwell_team_at_Rangers_because___39_head_was_all_over_the_place__39___says_Mark_McGhee

 

So there you have it. The week before the cup game a key player doesn't train all week as he is waiting by the phone and speaking to people. How professional of everyone involved.

 

Fuck sake.

[Lobey_Dosser]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/spfl/15051665.Scott_McDonald_left_out_of_Motherwell_team_at_Rangers_because___39_head_was_all_over_the_place__39___says_Mark_McGhee

 

So there you have it. The week before the cup game a key player doesn't train all week as he is waiting by the phone and speaking to people. How professional of everyone involved.

 

Fuck sake.

Yeah, I'm a huge admirer of McDonald but assuming McGhee's take on events is accurate, this is hugely disappointing. Having said that, if he was fit, he should have played from the start at Ibrox and the indiscipline could have addressed afterwards.

 

Edit - it still isn't absolutely clear that McDonald refused to train.

[Pepper]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/spfl/15051665.Scott_McDonald_left_out_of_Motherwell_team_at_Rangers_because___39_head_was_all_over_the_place__39___says_Mark_McGhee

 

So there you have it. The week before the cup game a key player doesn't train all week as he is waiting by the phone and speaking to people. How professional of everyone involved.

 

Fuck sake.

Not surprised by this at all. It was also fairly obvious mcdonald also lied through his teeth about trying to engineer a move to hibs which resulted in a war of words with Neil Lennon.

 

I don't expect loyalty in football anymore but don't try and treat the club that pay your wages when noone else would like mugs.

[Desp]

So, McGhee's quote of "McDonald hurting his back carrying the team" takes on a different slant now, no?

 

I didn't think at the time he was throwing the rest of the team under a bus, and the more that comes out, the more I think it was a dig at McDonald's perhaps inflated value of himself to the team.

[Dezz]

So, McGhee's quote of "McDonald hurting his back carrying the team" takes on a different slant now, no?

 

I didn't think at the time he was throwing the rest of the team under a bus, and the more that comes out, the more I think it was a dig at McDonald's perhaps inflated value of himself to the team.

Yeah, that's the question I asked a few pages back. The first I heard of that comment was from listening to the MFC podcast and my first reaction was it was more of a dig (possibly tongue in cheek) at McDonalds ego and whinging nature, rather than a serious dig at the rest of the team.

[Busta Nut]

So, McGhee's quote of "McDonald hurting his back carrying the team" takes on a different slant now, no?

 

I didn't think at the time he was throwing the rest of the team under a bus, and the more that comes out, the more I think it was a dig at McDonald's perhaps inflated value of himself to the team.

 

 

I haven't read/heard these comments, seen them discussed and when Sparra mentioned it on the Podcast I wanted to say I thought it was maybe a sly dig at Skippy but don't know enough about the comments/situation.

[postiejim]

"I had us winning the cup this year,I felt if we had got past that one and got the luck of the draw maybe we could've got to the cup final".

 

Aye right Mark , I'll have what your drinking.

[daver]

He's not the first and he won't be the last player to be unsettled by a possible move.

 

We've just signed Frear - was there not talk of him being put on the bench because he was unsettled by a team supposedly being in for him i.e.us? What does that say about him?

[superward]

We don't know the absolute details like a few have mentioned (well I am sure one or two of us on here do....:-)). But whether it was the club who let Skippy not come to training, or Skippy who refused to train....it's a shambles of a situation in the lead up to a huge cup game. If he had been training all week he would have started and that would have made a big difference.

 

I expect better of a senior, very experienced, player. He should be dealing with a move in the background and getting on with training and preparing with the rest of the team. Like a professional should.

 

I also expect better of the club to either not be strong-armed into a position before a big game...or being so flexible that they suggest or let a player not train who is fit in the week before a big game like this.

 

Anyway.....it's in the past. So, if McDonald is focussed for the rest of the season then fine. But, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth and big case of 'what if'

[weeyin]

I think there are a few "senior" professionals who don't train as often as others.

 

Regardless, if someone comes in with an offer for Skippy, he's no different from any other player. Take the money and move on.

 

Managers, player and agents play these games every window and its ridiculously pointless. I have no idea who they think they are fooling with their "no way we are selling, ridiculously low offer, seeing out his contract, improved offer not enough, bench him for being unsettled, reluctantly selling, goes with our best wishes" patter.

 

We are all adults here. We get it. Sometimes we lose out from the game, sometimes we benefit (like with Porter or Coke).

 

As for Skippy - when we he left the first time there was no dip in his performance as he ran down his contract. He doesn't seem like that kind of player.

[daver]

He seemed to want to get sent off at Dunfermline but maybe that was down to his normal petulance and nothing to do with less ccommitment as his contract neared its end.

[CoF]

Not sure if McGhee has been misquoted, but I wonder how many other players would be given a week off to decide if they want to leave the club then be asked if it's okay that they are only on the bench?

[weeyin]

Any senior player that a manager has built up a relationship with over the years, I'd imagine.

[dossertillidie]

Not sure if McGhee has been misquoted, but I wonder how many other players would be given a week off to decide if they want to leave the club then be asked if it's okay that they are only on the bench?

Said the same to someone at the game yesterday, was a strange comment to make