capt_oats Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I see your point here, but I'm just not sure the value is there in Scotland. Anyone of any note in the lower divisions here is going to be an expensive purchase, and we're competing with Hearts/Hibs/Dundee United/Aberdeen et al for their services. No one we pick up from a lower level here is going to be cheap. Additionally, I'm not entirely convinced the quality is there either. For every Swanson/Gomis coming from a low level, there's a John Baird, or Gary Irvine, who just can't hack it at a higher level. I'm sure if the opportunity arose, we'd be there, but it's just such a rarity just now. Our position in Scotland, geographically as much as anything, is an advantage. We're not far from Glasgow, there's plenty entirely decent places to live, relatively cheaply, and more than anything, we're a shop window for players to show their quality. I'd say we're far more attractive a prospect to someone down south, who gets the opportunity (for better or worse) to play at places like ibrox and parkhead a few times a year, show off on telly, and get a move south. I'd imagine that all works far more in our favour, signing someone from Kettering, as opposed to signing someone from Fife. Given the rumblings about Coulthirst, and then whoever the forest Green boy is, we're working our way down a target list that has vastly more depth than in Scotland, simply down to the number of clubs. Looking at transfers in Scotland, I'd say, for example, we've had far more out of Moult and Johnson, than Aberdeen have had out of Kenny McLean, for a similar sort of outlay. It all seems better business to me, really. The question of value is really the key point. Put in a bit of context QoS initially wanted £100k from Dundee for Kevin Holt. Granted he ended up going for considerably less but that initial quote is more than we're reported to have paid for Moult and Johnson combined plus a decent bit of change. Equally on the point of quality you could point to Nathan Austin who absolutely roasted our centre halves for East Fife, he was one of the names being mentioned as the sort of player we should be taking a punt on he seems to have struggled at Championship level with Falkirk and has been loaned back out to East Fife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I am just basing this on the numerous amounts of players we have brought in recently, none of which have been from either market. I struggle to think of any in recent memory. We seem to have been recruiting primarily from the English lower leagues for some time now. I'm sure you can agree it's been a very mixed bag. For every Moult there has been a Blyth or Wes Fletcher I'll give you Fletcher but Blyth arrived from Leicester who are hardly lower league. In fact as current champions of England they're pretty much the exact opposite of a lower league club. I'd argue that, if anything, the ones who haven't shown up as well as you'd expect are the players who have come in from further up the English league system; Laing from Forest, Kennedy from Leicester, Jake Taylor was at Reading, Belic came from West Ham even Theo Robinson was at a League 1 club prior to signing. Of the guys we've brought in from National League and League 2; Tait, Heneghan, Johnson, Moult, McHugh, Clay have all seemed pretty decent acquisitions. OK Bowman seems to have struggled a bit but he's been trying to break into a side with an established forward pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 And you know we aren't looking at the lower leagues in Scotland or abroad how? Bearing in mind we've had a prospect training with us recently with a view to bringing him in from - yes, the Scottish lower leagues! We're shopping in the conference as it's proving value for money more so than from elsewhere. Simple logistics. I won't ask for a name but what position does this lower league play in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermarv Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I won't ask for a name but what position does this lower league play in?Let's face it we all want to know the name as we will go on a meltdown on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukemfc1 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I'll give you Fletcher but Blyth arrived from Leicester who are hardly lower league. In fact as current champions of England they're pretty much the exact opposite of a lower league club. I'd argue that, if anything, the ones who haven't shown up as well as you'd expect are the players who have come in from further up the English league system; Laing from Forest, Kennedy from Leicester, Jake Taylor was at Reading, Belic came from West Ham even Theo Robinson was at a League 1 club prior to signing. Of the guys we've brought in from National League and League 2; Tait, Heneghan, Johnson, Moult, McHugh, Clay have all seemed pretty decent acquisitions. OK Bowman seems to have struggled a bit but he's been trying to break into a side with an established forward pairing. Good points regarding the higher league players, I think alot of the guys you mentioned from higher up have been mainly reserve team players. Just shows you the value of first team football even at a lower level and as you said perhaps we are better taking an established player from lower down than a cast off from the top. Generally I guess what I am trying to say is recruitment seems to be only from the English lower leagues. I take on board the finance aspect of things but just find it strange that the rest of the SPFL can find value for money abroad and in Scotland. I obviously understand why we were are working in this market place. By no means am I saying we can't find good talent in the lower leagues of England I just think we should be widening the net a bit. Our transfer policy hasn't been terrible, but it has been a very mixed bag all in all. I just don't really accept the argument that we can only shop in this marketplace, Dundee, Ross County, St Johnstone etc all manage to get players in domestically and from abroad so how can we not? Why limit ourselves? To demonstrate this look at our recent transfers over the last few seasons; Craig Clay Grimsby Free 01 Jul, 2016 Lee Lucas Swansea Free 01 Jul, 2016 Carl McHugh Plymouth Free 05 Jul, 2016 Ryan Bowman Gateshead Free 31 Aug, 2016 Louis Moult Wrexham Signed 29 Jun, 2015 Wes Fletcher York Signed 01 Jul, 2015 Joe Chalmers Celtic Signed 01 Jul, 2015 Kieran Kennedy Leicester Free 16 Jul, 2015 Craig Samson Kilmarnock Signed 15 Sep, 2015 Ben Heneghan Chester Free 23 Jun, 2016 Jacob Blyth Leicester Free 23 Jun, 2016 Richard Tait Grimsby Free 23 Jun, 2016 Lionel Ainsworth Rotherham Free 16 Jun, 2014 Nathan Thomas Plymouth Free 02 Feb, 2015 Marvin Johnson Kidderminster Signed 02 Feb, 2015 Scott McDonald Millwall Signed 26 Feb, 2015 Louis Laing Nottm Forest Free 29 Jun, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Jim O'Brien at Ross County on loan. Well, wrote this in the wrong thread, and its in the former players one already, so nothing to see. Maybe worth noting that burrows mentioned Laing being back up in training. Surely he'll be off on loan again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Dundee, Ross County, St Johnstone etc all manage to get players in domestically and from abroad so how can we not? Why limit ourselves? No manager has a perfect transfer record. Looking back even Tommy MacLean signed many absolute howlers. The clubs that you mention with the possible exception of St Johnstone, and indeed many Premiership clubs sign many players of which only some make it. Ross County in fact have just released Erik Cikos. Kilmarnock have been like a revolving door this season. I think our recent transfer record stands comparison with most of our rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Good points regarding the higher league players, I think alot of the guys you mentioned from higher up have been mainly reserve team players. Just shows you the value of first team football even at a lower level and as you said perhaps we are better taking an established player from lower down than a cast off from the top. Generally I guess what I am trying to say is recruitment seems to be only from the English lower leagues. I take on board the finance aspect of things but just find it strange that the rest of the SPFL can find value for money abroad and in Scotland. I obviously understand why we were are working in this market place. By no means am I saying we can't find good talent in the lower leagues of England I just think we should be widening the net a bit. Our transfer policy hasn't been terrible, but it has been a very mixed bag all in all. I just don't really accept the argument that we can only shop in this marketplace, Dundee, Ross County, St Johnstone etc all manage to get players in domestically and from abroad so how can we not? Why limit ourselves? To demonstrate this look at our recent transfers over the last few seasons; Craig Clay Grimsby Free 01 Jul, 2016 Lee Lucas Swansea Free 01 Jul, 2016 Carl McHugh Plymouth Free 05 Jul, 2016 Ryan Bowman Gateshead Free 31 Aug, 2016 Louis Moult Wrexham Signed 29 Jun, 2015 Wes Fletcher York Signed 01 Jul, 2015 Joe Chalmers Celtic Signed 01 Jul, 2015 Kieran Kennedy Leicester Free 16 Jul, 2015 Craig Samson Kilmarnock Signed 15 Sep, 2015 Ben Heneghan Chester Free 23 Jun, 2016 Jacob Blyth Leicester Free 23 Jun, 2016 Richard Tait Grimsby Free 23 Jun, 2016 Lionel Ainsworth Rotherham Free 16 Jun, 2014 Nathan Thomas Plymouth Free 02 Feb, 2015 Marvin Johnson Kidderminster Signed 02 Feb, 2015 Scott McDonald Millwall Signed 26 Feb, 2015 Louis Laing Nottm Forest Free 29 Jun, 2015 Totally understand your point but to pick up on the Dundee reference where Hartley's done well signing the likes of Bain, Hemmings and Stewart he's also signed a spectacular amount of dross. I think I counted 43 signings since he arrived at the club in 2014. 43 signings in 3 years if McGhee had that sort of turnover of players the lunatic fringe element of our support would be in absolute meltdown. Look at the likes of Yordi, Tankulic, Konrad, Gadzhalov, Etxabeguren and a whole list of others. Sure they've cast their net a bit wider but can you honestly say you'd take any of them over Tait, Moult, Johnson, Heneghan or Ainsworth? Similarly if there was a Marvin Johnson or Lionel Ainsworth cutting about in the 2nd division in Scotland then there's a fair chance he'd have caught the eye already. They've taken a punt on El Bahktaoui but by all accounts we had a deal on the table for him as well but in the end it was a choice between him and McDonald on account of the wage El Bahktaoui was after, again it's about value. If I have to make that choice then it's Skippy that gets my vote every time, it's not even a consideration. When it comes down to it transfers are likely to be a mixed bag, no manager is going to have a 100% hit rate. We have a market that we seem to be getting good value from and tbh I'd rather we kept making sure we recruited in a way that got us value than bringing in a Casagolda, Charalambous or Maros Klimpl just for the lolz. Edit to add: I'd have said that the fact that we were on record as having a deal on the table for El Bahktaoui shows that if there's a player in the lower leagues that interests us, we'll pursue it. The fact that he's only managed to score 2 goals for Dundee since signing for them is probably a decent indication that our judgement was sound in not just chucking money at him because he'd scored a ton of goals playing in league 1. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I won't ask for a name but what position does this lower league play in? Left back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Barry Douglas (former Dundee Utd) is lined up to sign for us. Currently playing in Turkey for the last 12months but wants a move back to Scotland. Text this morning appeared to be from a fairly decent source. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Barry Douglas (former Dundee Utd) is lined up to sign for us. Currently playing in Turkey for the last 12months but wants a move back to Scotland. Text this morning appeared to be from a fairly decent source. I've not seen him for some time but he was quite fancied at Dundee United before moving abroad. Now 27. Could be a solid signing to solve the left back issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Would be a cracking signing for LB i reckon. Was tipped now and again for a Scotland call up before Robertson and Tierney broke onto the scene. Won the league while out in Poland I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 He did indeed win the league in Poland, and was in the team of the half-year in Turkey. Great delivery, terrible defender at United, but presumably has improved that side of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Obviously not seen much of him as he's been playing abroad the last 4-5 years but was certainly rated at Dundee Utd and was always talked about being in Scotland contention. On paper he would be a more than decent signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Obviously not seen much of him as he's been playing abroad the last 4-5 years but was certainly rated at Dundee Utd and was always talked about being in Scotland contention. On paper he would be a more than decent signing. You might be right, I don't know enough about him to say otherwise but as an aside that all reads like the classic hyping of Dundee Utd players that took place four or five years ago. ... And exactly what we want to see when it comes to our own prospective sales of the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Textbook Mitch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I may well be being whooshed here, especially off the back of the chat about looking further afield than the National League but while obviously I can see why Douglas might want to leave Turkey because, you know...*politics* I'd have thought that him seeming to be contracted until 2019 would make it quite tricky without a decent fee being involved. http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/barry-douglas/profil/spieler/91854 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukemfc1 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Aye if you are not at the wind up I would be shocked if Douglas moved to us. He will be on a decent wage over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilwell86 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Listening to Alan burrows talking about project brave and he mentioned we turned down a bid from benfica for a youth player, I take it that player being Jamie semple ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Dont think Semple contracted yet as under 16 but may be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Listening to Alan burrows talking about project brave and he mentioned we turned down a bid from benfica for a youth player, I take it that player being Jamie semple ?I'd have thought a few (if not most) of those clubs he mentioned knocking back offers from would have been for Semple tbh. Though am curious as to what happened with Leighton, this is from August last year and the last couple of paragraphs mention of a deal being on the table from us but it's not a name you hear when the club are talking about the academy players; "Much as Burke faced a dilemma regarding his development, Leighton is at a similar crossroads: go and learn from the best coaches but become snarled up in the pecking order that predominates at big English and European clubs or stay in Scotland and find himself fast-tracked to the first team. Motherwell, for one, would love to have him back. "They would like me to go back. They have offered me a full-time contract and are in contact with me on regular basis. They have told me the door is open. Im keeping my options open."" http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14711158.Tom_Leighton__The_Scottish_youngster_on_his_time_at_Benfica_and_becoming_the_next_Oliver_Burke/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim64 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Re Barry Douglas I've been told that he has no intention of ever returning to Scotland never mind us to play football again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Apparently an official bid has been sent to Rangers about getting Michael O'Halloran on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 From the sound of things we're still in for Frear as well, so that's nice. The only way the O'Halloran thing makes any sense to me is if Ainsworth's on his way out. Which isn't a huge stretch of the imagination given he's out of contract at the end of the season but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 The only way the O'Halloran thing makes any sense to me is if Ainsworth's on his way out. Which isn't a huge stretch of the imagination given he's out of contract at the end of the season but still... As long as it's not before next weekend. If he goes before then and O'Halloran was to come in, I'd imagine that his parent club won't allow us to play him in either of the next 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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