Mcghee Out?

[grizzlyg]

What worries me is Moult out of contract at end of season and we could lose him for nowt!! That would be crazy and bring the back memories of Randolph who we got for nothing. Played 3 great seasons and we lose him for....... Nothing

[MelvinBragg]

What worries me is Moult out of contract at end of season and we could lose him for nowt!! That would be crazy and bring the back memories of Randolph who we got for nothing. Played 3 great seasons and we lose him for....... Nothing

Moult has 18 months left on his contract...

[grizzlyg]

Cheers Melvin , that is better news

[weeyin]

Cheers Melvin , that is better news

 

And, it seems from 'Flow's recent comments we will be offering him improved salary and/or an extension.

[Burn_Broomfield]

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/mcghee-my-future-is-at-motherwell-fc-1-4362347

 

 

McGhee wants to stay on. I'd be happy enough with that as I think he's the right man at the helm until Craigan decides he wants to take over. He's made mistakes, he's got things right, he doesn't have a vintage playing squad and hopefully when we stay in the league this season he'll get the team in for a proper pre-season. I believe the new League cup format has impacted heavily on, not just us, but every team in the league, perhaps with the exception of Rangers.

[Desp]

** BUT FOLK ARE STAYING AWAY COS OF THIS GUY KLAXON **

[capt_oats]

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/mcghee-my-future-is-at-motherwell-fc-1-4362347

 

 

McGhee wants to stay on. I'd be happy enough with that as I think he's the right man at the helm until Craigan decides he wants to take over. He's made mistakes, he's got things right, he doesn't have a vintage playing squad and hopefully when we stay in the league this season he'll get the team in for a proper pre-season. I believe the new League cup format has impacted heavily on, not just us, but every team in the league, perhaps with the exception of Rangers.

 

^^^ Pretty much this.

 

Caveating with the point "if we stay up" then..."if we stay up" McGhee's 2nd stint has seen him come in at a point we were on a downward spiral and finish 5th in his first season back, we're sitting 6th at the moment. If Alan Burrows' comments on the "Project Brave" edition of the MFC podcast are anything to go by we've got cash in the bank and there are no financial gaps to plug until at least the end of next season so given McGhee was having to offload Baraclough's dead wood in the last January window his tenure thus far has brought a bit of stability back to the club off the park as well. Which is something considering where we were in McCall's last days and the Baraclough period. While there's been a lack of consistency on the park this season we seem to have slowly getting a bit of stability back off it and I think the infrastructure of the club, of which McGhee's a part of, is significant to that.

 

The Johnson sale (combined) was, going by Flow's tweet, the highest income from a transfer since 2009 https://twitter.com/Alan_Burrows/status/806872501854867456 so that's decent and beyond that Cadden's come through, Hall broke into the side and players like MacLean, McMillan Campbell, Hastie and Turnbull are all signed up. Again whether or not Cadden would have got his chance had we signed Grimshaw who knows, either way he's a fixture in the team now and with Craigan & Lasley doing well with the u20s there seems a clear pathway from that level to first team and an experienced manager heading the coaching staff up.

 

We were haemorrhaging money under McCall & Baraclough;

- 2011/12: -£600,000

- 2012/13: -£184,500

- 2013/14: -£184,854

- 2014/15: -£1,150,000

- 2015/16: -£412,500

 

So it's clear why a restructure of budget was necessary during the Summer and fair play to McGhee, he's gone along with it. By and large he absolutely hammered it in the press to talk Johnson up and try to get a decent bit of money for him. I've no doubt we'll see the same happen regarding Moult between now and the summer. Indeed, it's already happening going by McGhee's interviews since the window shut.

 

Ultimately it depends on what McGhee's remit/objectives are:

- work to an established budget

- keep us in the league

- develop and play young players

- develop and promote "sellable assets"

 

For me he's doing all that. Yes, I'd very much like to see us hand Rangers their arse on a plate every season but overall he's ticking most of the boxes you'd want him to. For all we've been inconsistent we've also seen a 4-2 win against Accies, 4-1 against Ross County and had a couple of decent results up in the highlands. Yes we've struggled against the top 4 sides but on the flip of that 3-0 against ICT and 2-0 against Dundee aside our record against those from 5th down around us is pretty passable.

 

I've said before that while he has the BT gig Craigan would have to be mental to want to take a first team management job, he's got a pretty decent situation going with the telly work and is demonstrably doing a good job with the u20s. Going by his interviews McFadden would still rather be playing than having an assistant's role so forcing him into the manager's job just because he's Faddy seems a bit unfair. So by extension you have to ask who'd replace McGhee. The idea that Stubbs, John Hughes or any of the usual names that are bandied about would be markedly better than McGhee given the resources available seems a bit optimistic. Also, the idea that people who lose their mind about McGhee talking about Celtic would welcome with someone like John Hughes with open arms, a manager who whilst at ICT waxed lyrical about how proud he was to see Ryan Christie pull on the Hoops, is pretty hilarious.

 

Edit: Just so we're clear about those Hughes comments:

"I was thrilled to see Ryan come on for Celtic on Saturday. I take great pride in seeing him wear the Hoops."

"That was just his second appearance for Celtic at Parkhead and it brought a smile to my face. Hopefully, after starting for Celtic it won't be long before he's in the full Scotland squad. You must have high aspirations and he will have at Celtic."

http://www.highland-news.co.uk/Sport/Football/Inverness-Caley-Thistle/Inverness-CT-boss-John-Hughes-tips-Celtics-Ryan-Christie-for-Scotland-call-24022016.htm

[Joeboy]

How many players in this team are above average for the league? Moult? Probably, though he is not without limitations. McDonald? Still just about but that depends on sample size and his form at any given point. The rest? No better than ordinary. Can we blame McGhee for this? Well its certainly true that many are his signings. Tait - unremarkable at best. Heneghan - raw. Bowman - clearly not of the required standard. Clay/Lucas/McHugh - practically interchangeable - not without decent touches but no pace, slow feet, no drive. There is no question the results of his signing choices are poor but how much better should we *expect* rather than hope them to be?

 

Tait- I had my doubts about defensively to begin with, but I actually think he's been a really good signing in the end up. You're entitled to your opinion on him however, but do you think he's a downgrade from recent right backs? I'd rather have him than Moutouakil, Saunders, Ramsden, Kerr, Reid and Law there so if you consider right-back a problem, I don't think you can make it exclusive to McGhee.

 

Heneghan- basically see above but Page, Cummins, Ramsden, O'Brien, Kerr, Laing, Kennedy.

[Desp]

I thought you liked Mark O'Brien, Joe?

[steelboy]

If we replace McGhee we will get many applicants to choose from as we always do. Whether the club go down the inexperienced, tried and tested or outside the box route is down to them. It's quite funny that Captain Oats mentions Stubbs and Hughes as his bad examples, they are both trumpets but they both won the Scottish Cup. If our next manager achieves that no one will be pining for McGhee....

 

If McGhee is going to stay beyond the summer he'll need to make some decent signings. You can argue all day about the merits of Tait, Henneghan and McHugh but next season we will have no established attacking players at the club and whoever is in charge will need to bring players who can contribute in the final third on a consistent basis.

[Joeboy]

I thought you liked Mark O'Brien, Joe?

 

The modern day game needs more self-proclaimed lovers of hoofing the ball up the park.

[ONeils40yarder]

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/mcghee-my-future-is-at-motherwell-fc-1-4362347

 

 

McGhee wants to stay on. I'd be happy enough with that as I think he's the right man at the helm until Craigan decides he wants to take over. He's made mistakes, he's got things right, he doesn't have a vintage playing squad and hopefully when we stay in the league this season he'll get the team in for a proper pre-season. I believe the new League cup format has impacted heavily on, not just us, but every team in the league, perhaps with the exception of Rangers.

 

Agree with this broadly mate...other than the Craigan patter, for some reason I don't think thats a road I want to see us go down

 

As for the general gist, of McGhee staying, I'm quite comfortable with him being our Manager. I didn't want him back originally because of how he left us (and actively courted moves) previously, but quickly got over that because I support the Club, and wouldn't allow something as petty as who our manager is get in that way of that....fuck, I even managed to watch a full season with Mo Malpish in charge.

 

Anyway, for me, as BB has said, its easy to see that he's got a lot wrong over the past couple of seasons, but he's also managed to get a lot right at a time of real upheaval for the Club. His remit is clearly to keep the team in the top division by hook or by crook, while developing players brought in for peanuts to be sold on for a profit, to allow us to facilitate our debt. I've said it before (and got shot down), but I'd happily continue to sell our players for even a modest fee, if it allows us to clear our debt to Boyle and Hutchinson quicker than we have agreed to...the sooner we do, the sooner we can work on an even keel.

 

As for the stayaways, intent on turning their back on the Club until McGhee is away, well they're a bigger problem than any manager ever will be.

[CMWellfan]

I wouldn't agree with your 'failure of management' words (signing Bowman then wasn't through choice, it was only because that's when we had the money available), however you make some other good points.

 

You've heard a few of the Conference players come up here and one of the first things they say is how quicker the game is up here. So that's obviously going to mean they are required to be fitter. Your point of a pre-season is absolutely valid, and I think it'll be next season before you can properly judge the likes of Bowman and Freer.

 

I've said from pretty much day one that I believe we've taken Bowman to be the replacement for Moult, and we probably assumed Moult would have been away in January. It didn't happen, but I assume he'll be gone in the summer, and Bowman will get that chance to do a proper pre-season and be the number one striker from August. As Joe said earlier, he played very well in the game against Hamilton, so there is a player there in my eyes. The number of people happy to write these guys off because they haven't hit the ground running is very poor, I also agree.

 

However, you say that it's a failure of management for not developing or nurturing these players. How do you know the likes of Bowman & Freer haven't been signed with a view to next season? They could have been told they are here for the next few months to get fit, get used to the place, with the plan of them being ready for next season. Who knows?

 

For all the chat of "why didn't Bowman play on Saturday?", it was never going to happen. A straight swap with Bowman for McDonald doesn't make sense. They are completely different players. We're not going to stick Ainsworth in the middle of the park because Lasley or McHugh is out, just because they are both midfielders. If there's any time between now and May where Moult is injured or suspended, then Bowman will get his shot.

And is it a shock to you that the Scottish game is faster the non-league?

 

Think about it, we as a professional club are signing players from a psuedo amatuer league. I knew players who played with Stevenage, now a league club. Anyone thinking the non-league Stevenage where on a par with Motherwell is DELUDED.

 

These are guys who could not believe they were on a grand a week. The support set up was controlled by amatuers and guys not qualified for the professional game.

 

NOT QUALIFIED FOR THE PROFESSIONAL GAME.

 

If we are going to recruit from that pool - we have to give these guys specialist training and development programmes.

 

Then comes the Dougie Arnott argument:

 

1. Name one other player in your lifetime that moved from Scottish junior leagues to Motherwell and made it.

 

Derek Wheldon at Motherwell? Thrown to the wolves. Ravenscraig night shift one night, playing v Celtic the next.

 

What a fucking player Derek was at junior level. Our club destroyed him. In later days he had a motorcycle accident and was a quadraplegic. He died in his forties. The club wasn't to blame for the accident, but some of our modern day fans need to know how desperate we were in the 1980's that we went to Shotts Bon Accord on a Friday to be able to field a team against CELTIC on the Saturday.

 

This stupidity from the club has to end. These junior players, and conference league is the equivalent of junior level, need more support. The idea of sign on August 31 then play SPL days later is a farce and disgrace.

 

And a message for each and every one of you critising Bowman. Our club has fucked him.

 

Through a lack of support and management, we have fucked him.

[Desp]

I'm struggling to know where to start what that big bowl of word salad. Dearie me. I did enjoy the nightshift on a Friday/CELTIC on a Saturday story though. Retro.

 

Anyway, back to it. So on one hand you are saying players from Conference level aren't fit enough to go straight into the first team at Scottish Premiership level (with the exception of notable successes Moult & Johnson, along with Tait & Heneghan I assume you mean?) and they require a bit of time, help and fitness preparation.

 

On the other hand, you're criticising the club for fucking players up by not playing them straight away? On what grounds do you know that Bowman, Freer etc aren't on specific training regimes? On what grounds do you know these guys aren't being given the time and help to get up to the speed of the game up here? Have you spoken to Ryan lately?

 

Once you've sobered up a wee bit, maybe you can let us know your actual point you're trying to make.

[Burn_Broomfield]

Then comes the Dougie Arnott argument:

 

1. Name one other player in your lifetime that moved from Scottish junior leagues to Motherwell and made it.

 

 

 

 

 

Club Captain Keith Lasley

Lee McCulloch

Greig Denham

Andy Walker

Alex Burns

Scott Leitch(Indirectly)

[steelman1991]

For those of a different era

 

Alex Kennedy - Craigmark Burntonians

[Kmcalpin]

Ian Clinging - Carluke Rovers

John Goldthorpe - Lesmahagow

Graeme Forbes - Lochee United

 

I'll stop at that.

[dennyc]

Ian Clinging from Carluke Rovers is another one who made the move up from Junior level ......I think. Well over a hundred appearances for Motherwell and more than two hundred elsewhere at senior level

[dennyc]

Beaten to it by Kmcalpin. Add a club legend that joined from Irvine Victoria to the ever growing list

[CMWellfan]

I'm struggling to know where to start what that big bowl of word salad. Dearie me. I did enjoy the nightshift on a Friday/CELTIC on a Saturday story though. Retro.

 

Anyway, back to it. So on one hand you are saying players from Conference level aren't fit enough to go straight into the first team at Scottish Premiership level (with the exception of notable successes Moult & Johnson, along with Tait & Heneghan I assume you mean?) and they require a bit of time, help and fitness preparation.

 

On the other hand, you're criticising the club for fucking players up by not playing them straight away? On what grounds do you know that Bowman, Freer etc aren't on specific training regimes? On what grounds do you know these guys aren't being given the time and help to get up to the speed of the game up here? Have you spoken to Ryan lately?

 

Once you've sobered up a wee bit, maybe you can let us know your actual point you're trying to make.

 

So retro, what are you, stupid?

 

I knew Derek befote he played with Motherwell. I was at that debut Celtic game. Scottish juniot teams are the equivalent of conference league.

 

Lets sort it out in the way that a five year old can understand, in the case of Bowman.

 

Guy plays for junior team.

 

Guy is signed by a professional team at midnight August 31.

 

Guy does not have a professional pre-season.

 

Guy is put on the pitch v teams like Celtic who are competing in the Champions League. Every other team is fielding seasoned profesdionals.

 

Guy is out of his depth.

 

Total wank Motherwell fans go ape cos he ain't up to speed.

 

Total wanks like you can't understand the basic point.

 

Yes, we can recruit and nurture from the conference.

 

No, we can't sign guys one day from the juniors one day ( like Derek ) and expect them to compete against Celtic the next.

 

It's a complete and utter fucking absurdity and failure of club management.

[CMWellfan]

Club Captain Keith Lasley

Lee McCulloch

Greig Denham

Andy Walker

Alex Burns

Scott Leitch(Indirectly)

Leitch after falling out with McLean.

 

How many players have been on our books during the time frame represented by the guys you mention? Would that be 300? 400? 500? Since Andy Walker? Ffs - is it a thousand?

 

Amazing success rate there, eh?

[Onthefringes]

Bore off... 'professionals'

[Busta Nut]

I'd think Conference (National) teams are better than Juniors. Very much so.

[Burn_Broomfield]

So retro, what are you, stupid?

 

I knew Derek befote he played with Motherwell. I was at that debut Celtic game. Scottish juniot teams are the equivalent of conference league.

 

Lets sort it out in the way that a five year old can understand, in the case of Bowman.

 

Guy plays for junior team.

 

Guy is signed by a professional team at midnight August 31.

 

 

 

 

 

Gateshead FC are a professional football team for your information, since facts aren't your strong point.

 

Of the 24 teams in the National League, I think it's approximately 8 that are Semi-Professional, the rest are professional clubs just like Motherwell, in many cases with better facilities and more finance.

 

Granted the Premiership is a step up in level, with different styles of football, but he should have no problem adjusting to the training.

[Burn_Broomfield]

Leitch after falling out with McLean.

 

How many players have been on our books during the time frame represented by the guys you mention? Would that be 300? 400? 500? Since Andy Walker? Ffs - is it a thousand?

 

Amazing success rate there, eh?

 

Fraser Wishart

Mark Reilly

Ian Ross

 

 

It's a decent success rate, as 99% of players in Junior football are there for a reason, due to them not having all necessary requirements to make it as a professional footballer. Ability is merely just one attribute needed to be able to earn a decent living as a footballer.

 

On very, very rare occasions you'll find a gem in Junior/Amateur football. Motherwell have always kept an eye on that level, I know of guys who have been invited for trials due to the successes of their sides in junior and amateur football, but everyone of them has always found the difference in standard to be too large and the financial rewards not overly worthwhile.