Mcghee Out?

[Kmcalpin]

Looks like I'm being proved right again. McManus, Lasley, Samson and Hammell - what an embarrassment.

Over this you are. A few of us posted the same views last summer and this caused a bit of a furore on here. Some folks were unhappy that Lasley & Hammell, and to a lesser extent others, were being offered reduced wages but results are not based on sentiment. Yes, you need experience in a team but these players are past it and should never have been awarded new contracts.

 

As for the wider issue of Mark McGhee's position, he again cocked things up big time last night with his doomed 4-5-1 formation or a variant of it. However the players, most of whom he signed must take their share of the blame. We have only 14 games to go and I think its too late to change manager now. It could take 3/4 weeks to appoint a new man and then he's got to settle in. In short, if we wanted to change manager we've run out of time. That said, I think we'll stay up as his record in crunch games is good. If we can keep squad morale up after Saturday then we should be ok.......for now.

 

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[Wellarmy]

I'll be delighted when we win games but it'll be for our club not that self righteous prick. He doesn't do himself any favours with an already divided support, that with the Aberdeen fans was an embarrassment. Burrows and other members of the board must be looking at that through their fingers.

 

The worst thing for me was the lack of an apology to the supporters that went up

[Donaldo87]

Not quite McGhee out yet but its close.

 

The one thing I cant handle is the absolute batshit defensive errors we have seemingly every other week. I'm fed up of watching 'highlights' the next morning and just shaking my head in disbelief and the sheer calamity of them. What in the name of the wee man is going on for the 3rd goal last night.

A lot of that comes down to the players but what the hell are they getting coached on week in week out.

 

I can't believe he continues to pick Hammell and somebody needs dropped out of Heneghan and McManus to try and shake things up.

[Villageman]

Just now is not a good time to change manager. There are no obvious candidates and we aren't sitting comfortably enough to alllow a new man a settling in period.

 

If the Board are confident hr hasn't lost the dressing room, we are probably best to allow McGhee to limp on until the end of the season. Meanwhile, the Board should be working away in the background to find a suitable replacement in the summer that possesses greater ambition that reaching 1000 games.

 

Under no circumstances would I support a new contract for McGhee. Credit to him, he came in and provided the safe pair of hands we needed post Baraclough. He's also developed a few assets. However, this season has been a case of going through the motions. Watching a team with 3 of the best attacking talents in the league should be much more enjoyable than it has been. The negative tactics, the inferiority complex against the big teams and the failure to establish a settled formation by February has taken its toll on our dwindling support and the players.

 

At present, he is the laughing stock of Scottish football, which is quite an achievement in the current climate.

Agree with most of this, not sure he should get any credit for developing assets. Two things especially annoyed me over the last few days, 1) game preview that said a draw took us back to top six. that set the script for last night, and 2) I don't want to read of any Motherwell man manager or not giving to the press his opinion on who should be considered for the Rangers position.

For me the next 5 games are especially critical, Celtic avoiding another embarrassment is probably the best we can hope for, Dundee, Kilmarnock and St. Johnstone 3 of the four after that and if we fail to gain wins against them McGhie should be told his contract will not be renewed. INMO of course.

[Kmcalpin]

The one thing I cant handle is the absolute batshit defensive errors we have seemingly every other week.

Yes, it was particularly bad last night but we've been shipping poor goals for some years now. Our defensive frailty starts in midfield, especially centre midfield and McHugh's absence last night did not help. As for the defence, Samson is simply not good enough. Tait and Hammell are poor defenders. In the middle McManus is simply not good enough for someone with his experience. I have faith in Heneghan as he's young but he need a decent old head beside him.

[Desp]

I think we're now in a position where the manager wants to stay on, the board also wants him to stay on, but the poisonous atmosphere coming from the fans means we're getting close to a tipping point.

 

I don't think we'll get a better manager if he goes. However I now believe it cant go on. Get to the end of the season, finish somewhere between 7th and 10th, and go our separate ways.

 

The element of our support, who've had the he pitchfork out since almost day one, will win in the end. Whether they'll prove to be right, will become clear in the next 18 months or so.

 

Looking at the task he was given (stay in the League and get a few youngsters in the side) then hes achieved what was asked. However, it's not been done in the way anyone would have really wanted. Losing six and seven goals to another team in the same league is unacceptable, not matter which way you slice it.

 

I've always been a fan of McGhee, but it's no longer working for all the relevant parties. He should go at the end of the season, along with some of the senior pros in the squad.

 

There will be some massive decisions that need to be made by those in charge over the next few months.

[Well-Made]

I'd give new contracts to Las and Hammell without a second thought...................... on the coaching side, no playing involved. Let them carry on the work they are doing with Crags and the academy.(Or possibly in place of Crags, if he was to make the step up.)

 

Skippy is obviously feeling a pull for going back home and I can't blame him for that, given the service he has given us, it's only right to let him go there at the end of the season.

 

McManus, think he still has a year to run after this, so probably stuck with him.

 

Samson, I hope his contract is up this year, otherwise let him move on.

 

Ainsworth I'd only keep if either he agreed to do more defensively (ain't gonna happen) or we had a formation that provided extra cover to the full back behind him. He'd also have to turn up for more games when he starts as well right enough, so sadly would say goodbye.

 

As for the rest.....

 

We could lose both Cadden and Moulty in the Summer but at this rate not at the sort of fees we'd hope for.

 

This Summer has to be a rebuild with the next few years in mind, not just next season, would I trust Mutley with that.... Nah!!!.

[ONeils40yarder]

I think we're now in a position where the manager wants to stay on, the board also wants him to stay on, but the poisonous atmosphere coming from the fans means we're getting close to a tipping point.

 

I don't think we'll get a better manager if he goes. However I now believe it cant go on. Get to the end of the season, finish somewhere between 7th and 10th, and go our separate ways.

 

The element of our support, who've had the he pitchfork out since almost day one, will win in the end. Whether they'll prove to be right, will become clear in the next 18 months or so.

 

Looking at the task he was given (stay in the League and get a few youngsters in the side) then hes achieved what was asked. However, it's not been done in the way anyone would have really wanted. Losing six and seven goals to another team in the same league is unacceptable, not matter which way you slice it.

 

I've always been a fan of McGhee, but it's no longer working for all the relevant parties. He should go at the end of the season, along with some of the senior pros in the squad.

 

There will be some massive decisions that need to be made by those in charge over the next few months.

 

Completely agree with this almost to the word...

 

McGhee has been on an absolute hiding to nothing since he took over, far too many people within our support don't have it in them to accept him back after what went on in the final months of his last tenure. That said, complete capitulations against a half-decent Aberdeen side can't really be defended...

 

We miss McDonald in such a huge way, that it really worries me for next season, he's easily our most important player...when he isn't playing we completely change our formation and our desire to attack, we generally sit back, and invite pressure onto a creaky defence, with a midfield that has been powderpuff since Steve Jennings played for us, and a goalkeeper who just won't command his box. From that respect, i just don't get McGhees tactics when McDonald isn't available.

 

What I will say is that, it is public knowledge that we budget for 10th position in the league, which is completely responsible from a financial respect...but as such, surely McGhees remit then is simply to keep us above that drop zone? I don't think there is any prospect of us being relegated, maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I honestly think we have been hindered this season, with injuries, the amount of new players being brought in taking time to adjust (or not), the suspensions we've had recently, the stop/start nature of the campaign and I firmly believe that once we get our strongest team (McHugh will make a big difference along with McDonald) on the park we'll go on a semi-decent run over the next few weeks...the Tim game apart I'd imagine.

 

Added to his remit, seems to be the 'bringing in players for fuck all and punting them for £2,000,000' aspect which so far he seems to be achieving. All of this amid a back drop of the uncertainty over Hutchison and the Well Society...I honestly think he has had one cunt of a job to deal with this year...and yet before last night, we were 1 point away from being top6.

 

Again, another negative point is the Dads Army we seem to have managed to collect ourselves, and while I agree with the thought that these boys are over the hill, Lasley and Hammell in particular, I can sort of see why he kept them on...it goes back to that massive turnover of player we seem to see every season and maybe he was looking to try and integrate new (and our own younger) players this season and next whilst phasing these guys out, as per his remit. McManus, for all his faults has been pretty consistent this season and while I'm not sure there was any point giving Faddy a players contract, I highly doubt that it would have had any effect on how much we paid him as Assistant Manager...so fail to see the Taxi Drivers point here.

 

I fully agree with Desp, the rot that set in upon his appointment will never go away, no matter what he does between now and the time he leaves us...people are far too entrenched in the view that 'hes an absolute prick/wank/tosser/etc' and have been since day one, some even seem to be taking great delight in his/our misery, which I find strange and rather sad. At the end of the season, I think it would be in everybodys best interests to go our separate ways, thank him for keeping us up and await the next guy who will no doubt have us scrambling about in a similar position next season. One thing, I can't fully understand is the man-love and clamour for Stephen Craigan to be our manager, yes, he's done a really good job with the youths, but thats a pressure free role, where he pretty much gets handed a squad that he then coaches and gets the best out of them that he can. Hes never managed at any other level and I just get the feeling that people want him in because he is supposedly a Motherwell guy.

 

One final point, and its pretty hypothetical but pretty valid in my opinion...if Craigan for example had been presiding over the current season, with a similar projected outcome (ie finishing somewhere between 10th and 7th), would he be under the same amount of pressure and getting the same amount of vitriol chucked in his direction? A rhetorical question no doubt, but I think we all no the answer and the reason for that...

[Kmcalpin]

One thing, I can't fully understand is the man-love and clamour for Stephen Craigan to be our manager, yes, he's done a really good job with the youths, but thats a pressure free role, where he pretty much gets handed a squad that he then coaches and gets the best out of them that he can. Hes never managed at any other level and I just get the feeling that people want him in because he is supposedly a Motherwell guy.

 

One final point, and its pretty hypothetical but pretty valid in my opinion...if Craigan for example had been presiding over the current season, with a similar projected outcome (ie finishing somewhere between 10th and 7th), would he be under the same amount of pressure and getting the same amount of vitriol chucked in his direction? A rhetorical question no doubt, but I think we all no the answer and the reason for that...

A lot of good points. I'm not entirely sure though if Craigan would want the job given his previous comments. In any event perhaps he's more valuable to us in his current role. We've a few internal budding managers in the pipeline but none are ready for a step up in the short term.

[Joeboy]

I think we're now in a position where the manager wants to stay on, the board also wants him to stay on, but the poisonous atmosphere coming from the fans means we're getting close to a tipping point.

 

I don't think we'll get a better manager if he goes. However I now believe it cant go on. Get to the end of the season, finish somewhere between 7th and 10th, and go our separate ways.

 

The element of our support, who've had the he pitchfork out since almost day one, will win in the end. Whether they'll prove to be right, will become clear in the next 18 months or so.

 

Looking at the task he was given (stay in the League and get a few youngsters in the side) then hes achieved what was asked. However, it's not been done in the way anyone would have really wanted. Losing six and seven goals to another team in the same league is unacceptable, not matter which way you slice it.

 

I've always been a fan of McGhee, but it's no longer working for all the relevant parties. He should go at the end of the season, along with some of the senior pros in the squad.

 

There will be some massive decisions that need to be made by those in charge over the next few months.

I agree with you on all of this.

 

I always try to make my opinions on something rational, but that is something that has been missing since day one of McGhee's era. Whatever your opinion on the guy, when we hire him as a manager, wanting him to fail or getting on his back before a baw is kicked is utterly counter-productive. His second spell at Motherwell has been a case of get criticised when you do badly, but get no praise when you do well largely by our supporters. Personally, I can detach any perceived personal feelings I have for someone I don't personally know, but clearly others can't.

 

I do have gripes with him this season, no doubt about it. Some of his tactics, selection and recruitment have baffled me and I genuinely can't recall a season in my time when we haven't won two games in a row on February 16th. But pointing back to the rationality, we've won twice as many games as Accies and Inverness have for some perspective.

 

Last night was totally unacceptable and whilst I've never been an advocate of losing my shit over one match, last night was probably an exception to that rule. A back four which includes a 3 time title winner with 26 international caps and a guy who has played 564 times for the club should have the experience not to fold like a pack of cards and concede seven goals to a team like Aberdeen. You could be more forgiving if it was an isolated incident, but it's not.

 

Then the sending off/video debacle. This is where I think McGhee's arrogance badly affects us. Claiming he was just having a laugh when I think it was 5-0 down at the time, talking about consulting a lawyer and going mental on camera is well out of order. He showed absolutely no dignity and I've yet to see him acknowledge how bad we were, rather just focusing on his own spat with an official. Whatever happened between him and the official does not take importance over fixing what went wrong last night.

 

He done well last season to get us 5th, absolutely no doubt about it and the opportunities afforded to the likes of Cadden, MacLean and McMillan would have been unlikely under our previous three managers. But the video incident proved that he wasn't only acting with no dignity, he was feeling pressure and was not in total control of his emotions.

 

I guess it's hard to know what effect the backing of the fans has on a manager or a team, but McGhee must surely have acknowledged that a high percentage of our support is out with pitchforks and would happily see him fail to suit their own agenda. Last night reached boiling point for me in that regard and it was the first time I have thought it's maybe time to acknowledge this isn't working.

 

Fans are obviously a voice of a club, but as many acknowledge McGhee's second spell isn't working out, a lot of our fans need to take a good look at themselves, with the detrimental effect their "support" has given the club over the last eighteen months.

[mfc]

what detrimental effect have the fans had on the club over the last 18 months?

[ONeils40yarder]

Apart from the ones chucking it 'til that prick/wank/cunt has gone'? Aye, nothing I suppose

 

I'd also suggest that its no surprise that our home form is poorer than our away form, given the whole atmosphere generated at Fir Park these days

[Shotts Well Fan]

I have been a McGhee supporter for most of his time with us. I admire what he has achieved on a low budget. However, just recently I have become fed up with his tactical setups and his low aspirations in games. His negativity against "bigger teams" frustrates me and I would rather loose a game at least trying to win rather than trying not to loose (usually unsuccessfully).

Last night just cemented my view that he has run his course with us. You can rightly lay blame at the players for downing tools but that has to stem from the management's team not getting their buy in to the system and to ensure morale is high. How must players feel when they are told we are set up not to loose and needing to stop early goals from his pre match press conferences? Two minutes in that plan is out of the window.

I don't actually see him leaving before the end of the season mainly because of financial reasons but think he needs to go at season end. I hope we don't go down or get into the playoffs but we are certainly in relegation form and I do fear for the worst.

Living up here in Aberdeen has been absolute shite today fans gloating about their greatest ever victory and headlining every local radio station news report. Sorry to say this but I hope the h**s or Hearts beat them to second place. Absolute pricks.

[GrahamH]

I don't have any confidence that those in charge of the club would be able to pick a decent replacement for McGhee and fear we'd go the same way as St Mirren. The club as a whole has gone backwards over the last few years.

[Haggischomper]

Always been behind McGhee but not really wanting to see his contract renewed now. Don't want to see him quit, don't want to see him fired but at the end of the season when his contract is out it's bye bye. I don't think the dreadful stop/start nature of the league this year coupled with key injuries and the recent spate of suspensions has helped him with what is a limited squad to begin with. I'm definitely done with him over thinking his tactics though.

 

Actually think we have a decent base for a new guy to build on, once the old guard are finally gone. I'm not buying into the club have gone backwards patter at all.

[superward]

I think McGhee's time has come and we need some freshness. Just to say that up front.

 

But, a lot the things being thrown his way - odd tactics, not changing things, poor subs, negative talk and setup for old firm games have been levelled at Baraclough, McCall, Gannon, Butcher, Brown. Basically every manager who has came through the doors in the past 15 years or so.

 

It will likely happen again with the next manager.

[AndyRoss]

I think the argument that the club as a whole has went backwards over the last couple of years while true, comes down to the fact that budgets have been brought in line with what they should be. We constantly diced with death with Dempster and Co with their budgeting for top-six, and cup-runs - it was only in the play-off season that it all came crashing in around our ears.

 

Having given it a fair bit of thought since last night I think a lot of the issues we have currently come down to poor decisions made in the summer, I think despite our fifth-place finish perhaps papering over some of the cracks, the squad needed freshening up and it didn't happen, we turned to the same-old faces and expected them to contribute the same as they were six or seven seasons ago - for all I think Lasley and Hammell have struggled badly at times this season, we've only ourselves to blame that we not only offered both contracts but placed them right back into the team as regular starters.

 

I've always taken the opinion that I don't really care about what Mark McGhee is doing as long as he's managing the team to reasonably good results and performances, It's now got to the stage where we are stinking the place out on an almost weekly basis and then have to put up with his stupid and more often than not bizarre side-show after the game. I don't think three days will be enough for Mark McGhee to get over his squabble with the fourth-official and his subsequent tantrum for the team to be anywhere near ready for the trip to Celtic on Saturday. Basically what I'm saying is McGhee's influence and presence at Fir Park is now a negative thing - I would have happily let him see out the end of the season and bow out then because I didn't think we were in any great danger of relegation, now I just feel we've got a manager in the midst of losing his mind and the dressing-room.

 

Those in the dressing-room should be embarrassed by some of their efforts in recent times too, I watched back the highlights hoping to see that they'd be screaming at each other after goals, at least trying to gee each other up, there was absolutely nothing - they looked beaten and fairly uninterested.

 

It's up to someone at Fir Park to show a bit of backbone and act now, the writing has been on the wall, whether anyone has actually picked up on our decline will surely dictate quite how far we're going to fall. I'm not arsed about Saturday, that'll take care of itself, it's the game in nine days time against Dundee that'll have a huge say in our season and with McGhee in charge you'll have a crowd of 3000 with the majority totally against the manager - lets not leave it that long!

[Haggischomper]

Interesting you mention backbone. Do we actually have anyone in that dressing room that is a leader? McHugh maybe?

[Yassin]

There's a lot in our fanbase that just lose any objectivity or rationality when it comes to Mark McGhee, and use everything as a stick to beat him with. Some of it is just complete double standards- he's been widely accused of not caring enough about the club, yet when he's clearly hurting after defeats- like the Ibrox interview, or last night's antics- he's apparently an embarrassment to the club and we hear all the "I won't be back" shite. Or he's accused of being simultaneously too arrogant and too defeatist at the same time.

 

It's a weird season, where there's 4/5 teams far superior to the rest, and if Mark McGhee can continue to beat the teams around us and finish lower midtable then I'm perfectly happy with that from a season that's been more about stability and bringing through and developing young players than anything else.

[AndyRoss]

There's a lot in our fanbase that just lose any objectivity or rationality when it comes to Mark McGhee, and use everything as a stick to beat him with. Some of it is just complete double standards- he's been widely accused of not caring enough about the club, yet when he's clearly hurting after defeats- like the Ibrox interview, or last night's antics- he's apparently an embarrassment to the club and we hear all the "I won't be back" shite. Or he's accused of being simultaneously too arrogant and too defeatist at the same time.

 

It's a weird season, where there's 4/5 teams far superior to the rest, and if Mark McGhee can continue to beat the teams around us and finish lower midtable then I'm perfectly happy with that from a season that's been more about stability and bringing through and developing young players than anything else.

 

I'm sorry but it's hard to be anything but defeatist after a 7-2 defeat. You must be at the wind-up?

[Lobey_Dosser]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is Faddy. I get the impression that Robinson was a significant support to McGhee in delivering training and refining tactics.

 

Has McGhee possibly paid the price for going with an inexperienced assistant?

[ML1]

 

Has McGhee possibly paid the price for going with an inexperienced assistant?

 

Maybe he was trying to win the fans over as loads on here were delighted when McFadden was appointed

 

Probably be just as delighted when he's appointed as the next manager when Craigan knocks it back

[Yassin]

 

I'm sorry but it's hard to be anything but defeatist after a 7-2 defeat. You must be at the wind-up?

There's people bumping this thread and baying for blood after literally every defeat though. If all this was just an immediate reaction to last night's debacle it'd be understandable but it's the same people constantly losing their shit whenever we drop points.

[steelboy]

He'll be here til the end of the season unless he quits.

 

He's clearly not capable of taking us forward though so we should be looking for a new manager as soon as we know what league we'll be in next season.

[fizoxy]

I think he's good enough to keep us up, evidenced by our decent record against the teams around us. Whether he stays beyond that? I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I am pretty sure our next manager is already at the club, so I don't see how that would change our fortunes drastically, we're going to be a mid-to-bottom of the table team for a while.

 

I would like for us to diversify our signing policy a little, and recruit guys who play in Scotland and aren't total punts, but I don't think a new manager changes our signing policy.