Mcghee Out?

[superward]

The booking their player got because Moulty tripped over Ainsworth was laughable.

[StipeIsGod]

Tactics spot on.

 

Beasted at home 3-0.

 

I can't help but feel these are mutually exclusive.

[Wellarmy]

Tactics spot on.

 

Beasted at home 3-0.

 

I can't help but feel these are mutually exclusive.

It was 0-0 and Hearts weren't giving us much trouble before the sending off. His tactics were working, what else you wanting?

[siebsbarmyarmy]

It was 0-0 and Hearts weren't giving us much trouble before the sending off. His tactics were working, what else you wanting?

His tactics where working if you fancied a 0-0 draw and where happy with that. There was very little to get excited about going forward or to make it an enjoyable game.

 

Far too often these days McGhee seems to be setting his stall out to nullify the opposition. Sorry but I think we have good enough players for them to worry about us.

 

Let's actually set up at home with the intention of playing OUR game and try and win a match.

[Lobey_Dosser]

His tactics where working if you fancied a 0-0 draw and where happy with that. There was very little to get excited about going forward or to make it an enjoyable game.

 

Far too often these days McGhee seems to be setting his stall out to nullify the opposition. Sorry but I think we have good enough players for them to worry about us.

 

Let's actually set up at home with the intention of playing OUR game and try and win a match.

Agree entirely, McGhee seems to have succeeded in driving down expectations.

 

Yes Hearts are a superior outfit but they were far from firing on all cylinders today. McGhee was in the paper this week, disappointed that our home gates are in decline. Obviously there are various contributing factors (e.g. ST price increase) but this obsession with setting up to nullify the opposition as opposed to working on our own play isn't helping. Our attacking players deserve to be playing in a more forward thinking team. As good a pro as Moult is, he must get scunnered from time to time.

 

When's the last time we played really well? Good performances for more than 45 minutes are few and far between this season.

[Jay]

Agree entirely, McGhee seems to have succeeded in driving down expectations.

 

Yes Hearts are a superior outfit but they were far from firing on all cylinders today. McGhee was in the paper this week, disappointed that our home gates are in decline. Obviously there are various contributing factors (e.g. ST price increase) but this obsession with setting up to nullify the opposition as opposed to working on our own play isn't helping. Our attacking players deserve to be playing in a more forward thinking team. As good a pro as Moult is, he must get scunnered from time to time.

 

When's the last time we played really well? Good performances for more than 45 minutes are few and far between this season.

 

Absolutely. Today there were factors outwith his control, so it would be unfair to base anything solely on today's game, but over his 2nd spell as a whole there is no getting away from the fact he seems obsessed with the opposition IMO. To be perfectly honest, Mark McGhee has completely shat it on numerous occasions before a ball has even been kicked. I cannot be the only 'Well fan who has woken up on a Saturday optimistic and excited, then found that positivity drained at 2pm when the team is announced. The inevitable defeat is then not a surprise.

 

We have some very good attacking players and, on our day, we are capable of playing some very good attacking football, scoring goals, and beating teams. Yet all of that seems so far down the priority list to McGhee. Instead, the main - and, it seems, at times only - concern is how to stop the opposition. And in the majority of cases we end up losing the game, usually going behind and being far too negative and impotent in attack to respond.

 

What makes it even more baffling is that this is the same man who, at Fir Park in his 1st spell, made us into one of the most exciting and energetic attacking sides in the country. I've heard it argued that we don't have the players for that this time around but his sides of around 2007 often had, for example, Steven McGarry in them who, despite being a decent enough player, was hardly different class. It's almost as though he has went from one extreme to the other in ten years.

[siebsbarmyarmy]

Succinctly put as always Jay and my thoughts 100%.

[Welldaft Mk1]

His tactics are to make us more defensive against better sides with better players and less so against teams in bottom 6. Go figure.

 

But all the posters above are obviously tactical geniuses that should have been football managers clearly.....

 

I am not saying he is getting it right all the time, but even he can not legislate against players lunging into tackles and getting sent off or making defensive howlers in the 89 minute.

 

We are still sitting 6th even had a fairly poor season.

[siebsbarmyarmy]

Your completely missing the point Welldaft.

 

The point is I would much rather we had a go and lost, than sit back and lose. Over the years watching Motherwell we rarely get a result playing defensively.

 

How many of the games against the better teams have we won?

 

Is our defence good enough to take the pressure for 90 mins? I don't think so in the slightest.

[CoF]

I'm surprised to hear comments about negativity today. Tait and Hammell were clearly far enough forward to be playing as part of a midfield 4, not a back 5, - both of them capable of delivering excellent balls into the box and with a rare front 3 in Moult, Cads and Ainsworth I was really looking forward to our forward play. As it transpired, there were simply too many individual errors in the final third which made us look fairly impotent.

 

I think signing Pearson and (hopefully) Frear will see a more attacking mindset coming through from our midfield.

[milo]

We might aswell go for it against the better teams as so far this season the "keeping it tight" approach has yielded 1 point (away to St Johnstone).

 

That is by far and away the lowest total of any of the bottom teams against the top 5.

[Wellarmy]

His tactics where working if you fancied a 0-0 draw and where happy with that. There was very little to get excited about going forward or to make it an enjoyable game.

 

Far too often these days McGhee seems to be setting his stall out to nullify the opposition. Sorry but I think we have good enough players for them to worry about us.

 

Let's actually set up at home with the intention of playing OUR game and try and win a match.

Fair point, I thought leading upto half time then even at the start of the second I reckon we looked ok going forward but that red card absolutely killed it

[Welldaft Mk1]

Your completely missing the point Welldaft.

The point is I would much rather we had a go and lost, than sit back and lose. Over the years watching Motherwell we rarely get a result playing defensively.

How many of the games against the better teams have we won?

Is our defence good enough to take the pressure for 90 mins? I don't think so in the slightest.

I am not completely missing the point. McGhee job is to keep us in the league and if possible top 6.

 

He knows the strengths and weaknesses of our players better than anyone.

 

I am quite sure if he felt playing an offensive attacking formation v Celtic, Rangers & Hearts et al would reap rewards he would do so.

 

If he was doing that and we were getting gubbed repeatedly, posters would be on here moaning that he should be more defensive. Basically he cannot win either way.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I'm surprised to hear comments about negativity today.

 

You shouldn't be. It's the latest buzz word form the petted lip brigade.

 

Just off the top of my head - Moult hit the bar with a header, Ainsworth has one cleared off the line, Lasley shoots just wide, Pearson narrowly misses a header..

 

The thing is it's not even that long ago we were going game after game without even having a shot on target. Lot of short memories around.

[dossertillidie]

 

Absolutely. Today there were factors outwith his control, so it would be unfair to base anything solely on today's game, but over his 2nd spell as a whole there is no getting away from the fact he seems obsessed with the opposition IMO. To be perfectly honest, Mark McGhee has completely shat it on numerous occasions before a ball has even been kicked. I cannot be the only 'Well fan who has woken up on a Saturday optimistic and excited, then found that positivity drained at 2pm when the team is announced. The inevitable defeat is then not a surprise.

 

We have some very good attacking players and, on our day, we are capable of playing some very good attacking football, scoring goals, and beating teams. Yet all of that seems so far down the priority list to McGhee. Instead, the main - and, it seems, at times only - concern is how to stop the opposition. And in the majority of cases we end up losing the game, usually going behind and being far too negative and impotent in attack to respond.

 

What makes it even more baffling is that this is the same man who, at Fir Park in his 1st spell, made us into one of the most exciting and energetic attacking sides in the country. I've heard it argued that we don't have the players for that this time around but his sides of around 2007 often had, for example, Steven McGarry in them who, despite being a decent enough player, was hardly different class. It's almost as though he has went from one extreme to the other in ten years.

This absolutely this 100%

 

Get back to appreciating what a decent squad we have McGhee and have a right good go at teams. Setting up for a defeat is no better than having a go at beating the opposition to get beat 3-0 .

 

Heavy defeats like today are easier to take when you have had a right good go and played to your strengths

[MadeofSteel]

Can't agree more with the above. Although it was pretty gutting at the time, I genuinely would prefer games like the defeat to Celtic where I know we've had a real go at them.

[BAZ]

McGhee -- Has anyone seen commrnts in Sunday Mail re Moult. Is he doing his best to punt him? Some manager saying that he will bolt in the summer as he is out of contract. Surely we should have extended it,or did we expect him to go in January? - I know we are a selling club but we need to have a replacement ready to take over as we are not exactly goal scoring machines. Mark seems to be acting as his agent!!

[Dezz]

McGhee -- Has anyone seen commrnts in Sunday Mail re Moult. Is he doing his best to punt him? Some manager saying that he will bolt in the summer as he is out of contract. Surely we should have extended it,or did we expect him to go in January? - I know we are a selling club but we need to have a replacement ready to take over as we are not exactly goal scoring machines. Mark seems to be acting as his agent!!

Moult has 18 months left on his contract.

[Shire Greats]

Agree entirely, McGhee seems to have succeeded in driving down expectations.

 

Yes Hearts are a superior outfit but they were far from firing on all cylinders today. McGhee was in the paper this week, disappointed that our home gates are in decline. Obviously there are various contributing factors (e.g. ST price increase) but this obsession with setting up to nullify the opposition as opposed to working on our own play isn't helping. Our attacking players deserve to be playing in a more forward thinking team. As good a pro as Moult is, he must get scunnered from time to time.

 

When's the last time we played really well? Good performances for more than 45 minutes are few and far between this season.

It's already been documented that he has a budget to finish 10 th and we are sitting 6 th , so I reckon he's doing fine .People don't go to games for all sorts if reasons , I think it's disingenuous to blame Mark Mcghees tactics . It might not be this season but if we carry on with the current budget/ crowds etc, we will be in a relegation battle....ironically it will probably get the crowds up

[Big Stall]

Mark seems to be acting as his agent!!

Its part of his remit now to talk up our players and sell them on. Moult will be away in the summer so we need to raise his profile as much as we can and try and maximise his value

[MelvinBragg]

First time around, I was one of McGhee's harshest critics, possibly unfairly. This time around, I've been less critical both here and in the stadium. Maybe I'm older and wiser, accepting all Motherwell managers will have weaknesses or flaws. But I do have concerns going forward.

 

It is not inconceivable that we could go into next season without Moult, McDonald, Cadden and Ainsworth. Two of those players are the reason that most fans think that we should just about avoid relegation this season. Does anyone share my concern that McGhee is not the man to find replacements for these four players?

 

I know like all smaller clubs in the SPL that we're operating on a tight budget so our hands are tied somewhat but this cuts to the heart of my concern. McGhee's track record in the transfer market doesn't fill me with hope that he's the best man to replace key players. This season alone this is the manager who brought in Blyth, Bowman, Clay, Belic and Brill. Five salaries on guys who have contributed what exactly? You could add Lucas to that list but he looks to have ability even if rarely fit. You're left with three summer signings who have made any kind of positive impact. Of those three, McHugh looks the pick. I may be alone but don't see a lot to convince me that Heneghan is markedly better than Kennedy or Laing. Tait, while decent, looks limited. Even last time round, Porter and Hughes were successes but we also saw Klimpl, Malcolm, Grabban and lest we forget, Michael Fraser on a precontract.

 

In short, before you even get to discussing his tactics, McGhee's eye for a player, or lack thereof, is a real concern going forward. List our four or five best players. How many are McGhee signings? As good or as bad a manager that you think he is tactically, how many of us have faith that he'll be able to put together a squad capable of surviving next season if we stay up this season?

[Andy_P]

A couple of different strands to that Melvin but a good thought provoking post.

 

A lot of unknowns. We don't know what players will still be around next season and we don't even know if McGhee will still be around next season. And of course we don't know what shape our competitors will be in either, so it's a difficult one to speculate at this point in time whether whoever is in charge of us next season will be able to build a sufficiently capable squad to keep us up.

 

But If we stay up, then as I see it, McGhee will have achieved all that was asked of him at the time of his appointment - namely keeping us, bringing through youngsters and trying to bring money in through sales. Whether that's been easy on the eye or otherwise is another debate entirely but based on targets set he might feel he's earned another deal.

 

So working on the assumption he's still here and if as has been suggested, we'll be on a firmer footing financially then perhaps as a consequence the ceiling on who he, or the club, wishes to bring in may be a little higher and perhaps the quality may be nudged up a notch?

 

I specifically add in "the club" there as clearly there is a preferred route the club are looking to go down when it comes to new signings. It's no co-incidence that our head of recruitment is based in England for example. I think we're some way removed from 2007 when John Boyle clearly got a fright the day of that 3-2 defeat to St Mirren and realised he taken "efficiencies" with the playing budget as far he could without disaster striking. In his first season with us I think those looser purse strings were certainly reflected in one or two of McGhee's signings.

 

Now I don't think for a minute that McGhee doesn't have a major input or indeed the final say on incomings; or that every signing made has to have been exclusively identified by Martin Foyle, but the impression created is that when a position to strengthen is identified by the manager it is our chap down south who is providing the list of potential signings and McGhee then begins his involvement on a more detailed level.

 

So whilst yeah McGhee's the manager and the buck stops with him I think we're far removed from 2007 and that is perhaps being reflected in the signings being a little more of a gamble.

 

Having said all that I'm not convinced the recruitment has been quite as bad as is sometimes made out. "Limited" Tait may be yet still better than Law at right back. Heneghan I'd contest is better than either Laing or Kennedy, has much greater potential than either two and I'd speculate on a more modest wage too. Clay has been neither startling nor disastrous, at worst squad filling material that most teams of our level need. The jury remains out on Blyth and Bowman for me since we've so little of either.

 

Belic and Brill are on the face of it poor signings but again you can make a reasonable argument for taking on both. Pre-injury Brill did have a reasonable reputation at ICT so perhaps worth the gamble to see if had a chance of being able to recapture that form and Belic has already been confirmed to be a virtual last minute offer to club to have a look at at no cost to us so not much lost there either.

 

So I suppose to ultimately answer your question, yeah if he's around next season I do have faith that we'll have a squad sufficiently capable to keep us in the division at least another year longer.

[gdalli10]

Never speak of Michael Fraser again.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I'd echo Andy that Melvin's post posed some decent talking points.

 

I do have faith that we'll have a squad sufficiently capable to keep us in the division at least another year longer.

 

What stood out from yours Andy was this right at the end, can't tell you how that statement (albeit true) was a little sad to read. I think there's a healthy number of our fans who now can look at the demise of St. Mirren recently and the likes of Dunfermline 15 years ago and think ourselves lucky we aren't where they are. It's not a million miles from that tipping point and where we bob along in Scottish football.

 

Maybe it's endemic of the basket case that football now is, that we now find our primary reason for being is to start a campaign thinking that our league games should be blooding and fitness preparation for an assault on two cups, of course ideally, ticking along in 8th or above in the league would be a bonus and doesn't cause too much of a distraction.

 

All this project brave, super academies, let's target grass roots, performance directors stuff .... just feels like that one scene in every war film ever watched where the medic won't give up giving CPR until he's dragged off.

 

I must admit my interest is waning, my attendance at FP is on the slide, I don't look to join up with friends for a Scotland match on the TV or pub.

[Lobey_Dosser]

It's already been documented that he has a budget to finish 10 th and we are sitting 6 th , so I reckon he's doing fine .People don't go to games for all sorts if reasons , I think it's disingenuous to blame Mark Mcghees tactics . It might not be this season but if we carry on with the current budget/ crowds etc, we will be in a relegation battle....ironically it will probably get the crowds up

We are not the only team budgeting for 10th. Not much seperates the bottom 8 clubs and if anything, we will be spending slightly more than most in that group.

 

Regardless of budget, our approach to games could be more positive to fairly reflect the attacking quality we have at our disposal. We've beaten Ross County twice this season yet they are unbeaten against Rangers, that comes down to a lack of belief in our part.

 

Good points made by Melvin and Andy. We are in for a pivotal summer, although we have been there many times before. Regardless of who is in charge, my hope would be that we widen the net beyond the English non-leagues. We've unearthed a couple of gems and a couple of steady players but the well may run dry at some point.