Ballso Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Amazing they can make a statement about a red card but not the Robbie Leitch transfer income.If you're a shareholder, why not wait until this year's financial results and ask the question at the AGM. That's if you can manage to be in the country at the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 The Scotsman is still at it. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/why-referee-didn-t-show-red-card-for-foul-on-kieran-tierney-1-4372652 Do they intend to highlight and analyse every similar incident in future? If not why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think we're starting to lose the plot here. A newspaper is under no obligation to highlight or analyse every similar incident. They report on what they think is interesting and will attract readers. Articles about Rangers and Celtic attract more readers. No need for us to reach their levels of paranoia. No conspiracies here, just inconsistent refereeing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 The Scotsman is still at it. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/why-referee-didn-t-show-red-card-for-foul-on-kieran-tierney-1-4372652 Do they intend to highlight and analyse every similar incident in future? If not why not? Hopefully thisGraeme has a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 The Scotsman is still at it. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/why-referee-didn-t-show-red-card-for-foul-on-kieran-tierney-1-4372652 Do they intend to highlight and analyse every similar incident in future? If not why not? This thread is still at it, weeks later. For what it's worth, I still think Bowman's 'tackle' was a high, studs-up challenge that was dangerous. Whether Tierney had control of the ball, whether the ball was in the air, whether the ball was there to be won, whether Bowman caught the ball on the way, whether other players complained or not, are all irrelevant because not a single one of those factors change the speed, height or angle of Bowman's studs-up leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 A newspaper is under no obligation to highlight or analyse every similar incident. They report on what they think is interesting and will attract readers. Of course and I've no problem with that as long as they're up front about it but they're not and thats what irritates me. Consistency, fairness and objectiveness are simply not factors in their reporting but they pretend that they are. In addition too many journalists allow personal prejudices to colour their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 That article does read a bit like it was written by a Celtic fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 That article does read a bit like it was written by a Celtic fan. It was written by a Killie fan and a Hearts fan respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Of course and I've no problem with that as long as they're up front about it but they're not and thats what irritates me. Consistency, fairness and objectiveness are simply not factors in their reporting but they pretend that they are. In addition too many journalists allow personal prejudices to colour their work. Spot on, the use of the word 'raking' and the fact they quote Celtic TV as a credible source tells you all you need to know about what audience they are pandering too. Put it this way, ask yourself would they be printing articles about a foul by a Celtic journeyman player on a young Motherwell prospect a few days later? Think we all know the answer to that...: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Spot on, the use of the word 'raking' and the fact they quote Celtic TV as a credible source tells you all you need to know about what audience they are pandering too. Put it this way, ask yourself would they be printing articles about a foul by a Celtic journeyman player on a young Motherwell prospect a few days later? Think we all know the answer to that...: To be fair - they are quoting Celtic TV and saying they are wrong in the comments they make at the time during the live game. You couldn't really quote a commentator from highlights as they watch it before dubbing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 To be fair - they are quoting Celtic TV and saying they are wrong in the comments they make at the time during the live game. You couldn't really quote a commentator from highlights as they watch it before dubbing it. My point was more that they even bothered to quote what is blatantly and I would imagine, admittedly, massively biased when it comes to matters relating to Celtic! Final point still stands, whilst it maybe was a sending off, if it was the other way around or the game had no OF involvement they would not be printing the article a few days later. Unfortunately it's Scotland and most of us have accepted that's the way things are, although it does still frustrate me massively when journalist talk/write about what the biggest problems/challenges are in our game and never mention the biggest one i.e fact that the vast majority of the country supports 2 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Not sure why we're not just grateful we got away with one. As Stu said further up, it is the most blatant red card going and the referee (who has a reputation for being overly lenient) clearly made a mistake. I actually think the Scotsman article is pretty interesting - it acknowledges it is a refereeing error and provide some rationale about why he possibly got it wrong - almost as if it was written to educate the fan reading it. To be fair to Celtic, nobody from in that club has been particularly critical of Bowman as I think both realise it was exuberance rather than malice that caused it but it does not change the fact it was a red card offence. Also as an aside when our manager comes out in the press last week saying he believes there is an agenda against us yet on Saturday we have a player who booked when he should have been sent off, hardly surprising the media want to point out Motherwell got away with one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Not sure why we're not just grateful we got away with one. As Stu said further up, it is the most blatant red card going and the referee (who has a reputation for being overly lenient) clearly made a mistake. I actually think the Scotsman article is pretty interesting - it acknowledges it is a refereeing error and provide some rationale about why he possibly got it wrong - almost as if it was written to educate the fan reading it. To be fair to Celtic, nobody from in that club has been particularly critical of Bowman as I think both realise it was exuberance rather than malice that caused it but it does not change the fact it was a red card offence. Also as an aside when our manager comes out in the press last week saying he believes there is an agenda against us yet on Saturday we have a player who booked when he should have been sent off, hardly surprising the media want to point out Motherwell got away with one. I'm not sure that it is the most blatant red card going Tweed. Its not quite as clear cut as that. Probably nearer 50/50. As far as analyses go the Scotsman's attempt is not unreasonable although I don't agree with all of it. My point however is that the Scotsman (and other newspapers) don't subject all similar incidents to the same level of publicity and scrutiny. They are very selective about what they cover. By doing this, for reasons articulated by Weeyin, they give rise to a distorted and misleading coverage of Scottish football. The uninitiated or naive reader can easily misunderstand what is going on. Their raison d'etre is to maximise profits for shareholders, not report news objectively, and this is often disguised and concealed by the publications themselves. One element of this is to maximise sales, and in a footballing context, give fans of the bigger clubs what they want to read. One of the most ridiculous footballing articles I've ever read was published some years ago by the Scotsman. It was around the time before Hearts went into administration and had a whopping debt of about £26m. When all around were criticising Hearts and Romanov the Scotsman published an article which defended him and more or less said that this level of debt was a great thing and that every club should do it. What utter nonsense. Even diehard Hearts fans saw it for what it was. Football fans and indeed readers in general need to take what papers print with a large spoonful of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Also as an aside when our manager comes out in the press last week saying he believes there is an agenda against us yet on Saturday we have a player who booked when he should have been sent off, hardly surprising the media want to point out Motherwell got away with one. And you believe that's why the media want to point out Motherwell got away with one? Really, not to do with who we were playing? If it had been Dundee or Patrick Thistle we were playing it would have been lucky to make the sports news on the Saturday never mind three days later...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I'm not sure that it is the most blatant red card going Tweed. Its not quite as clear cut as that. Probably nearer 50/50. Dangerous play = red card. Generally you'll get a red card for dangerous play if the foot is dangerously high, it was. Generally you'll get a red card if it is over the ball, it was. Generally you'll get a red card if you rake down someone's leg with the studs, it did. Generally you'll get a red card if there is excessive force. You could argue it was. And normally it only needs to be one of the above, not three maybe four. It ticked every box. Anyone who doesn't think that is dangerous play ergo a red card is looking through the most claret and amber tinted spectacles going. If he hadn't nudged the ball first and the full momentum had gone into Tierney he was looking at another lengthy spell out. Like I said previously, I have no doubt he only had eyes for the ball but you just can't play like that and I genuinely cannot believe there are people defending it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Seems to be a Scotsman thing...there are a few linked articles where other decisions are reviewed. Albeit it seems to only be games involving the old firm. Has the meeting with the head of refs happened yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 My point was more that they even bothered to quote what is blatantly and I would imagine, admittedly, massively biased when it comes to matters relating to Celtic! Final point still stands, whilst it maybe was a sending off, if it was the other way around or the game had no OF involvement they would not be printing the article a few days later. Unfortunately it's Scotland and most of us have accepted that's the way things are, although it does still frustrate me massively when journalist talk/write about what the biggest problems/challenges are in our game and never mention the biggest one i.e fact that the vast majority of the country supports 2 teams. That's a fairly regular column and is very well pieced together. It goes beyond whether or not the ref made the right decision, but rather why he made the decision. If we want a proper discussion about referees performance then that kind of article should be encouraged. It does primarily focus on games vs Rangers and Celtic, however as a few have pointed out - they have papers to sell (and access to replays might have something to do with it). If you read the other columns they certainly don't have a bias one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Not a regular reader of the Scotsman but I can't see much wrong with a relatively well balanced article following up a poor refereeing decision. Bowman and Motherwell should be relieved that such a talented young Scottish player has walked away from a reckless challenge. Imagine the grief we would be getting in Tierney was out for a long period of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Not a regular reader of the Scotsman but I can't see much wrong with a relatively well balanced article following up a poor refereeing decision. Bowman and Motherwell should be relieved that such a talented young Scottish player has walked away from a reckless challenge. Imagine the grief we would be getting in Tierney was out for a long period of time. Not sure if it was intentional but the 2nd paragraph of your post implies that Bowmans challenge was in some way deliberate which i dont think it was. Lets be honest about this if Bowman or any other Motherwell player had made a similar tackle against a player from any other team in Scotland apart from Celtic, Rangers or Aberdeen and possibly Hearts would we be reading about it in the papers or suffering trial by TV...no. The media particularly in the west constantly pander to the Green and Blue ugly sisters their players can do no wrong and this is particularly true with Celtic they are always the victims, would there have been the same outcry if Brown or Tierney had tackled Bowman the same way,no it would have been reported as solid defending or some other bullshit description. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Dangerous play = red card...... Generally you'll get a red card for dangerous play if the foot is dangerously high....Generally you'll get a red card if there is excessive force. Lets take a hypothetical case, in some ways similar to the case of Elliot Frear at Aberdeen. A ball comes to a player at say 30 cms off the ground with an opportunity to shoot at goal. He has a split second to react and, as far as he is aware, there is no opponent adjacent to him (its impractical for him to stop and look around to check). He attempts to whack the ball as hard as he can to beat the keeper. Unfortunately at the last minute a hitherto unseen opponent sticks a leg out and receives a hard boot on the shin just after the first player makes contact with the ball. Is that a red card due to excessive force? Will players be told not to hit the ball too hard in case someone else gets whacked? Are we going to ask players to hold back when tackling in case an opponent is injured? I know its a made up example but my point is that the interpretation of the law now seems to be too complicated and open to debate. Lets not forget that players have a split second to react as do referees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Not sure if it was intentional but the 2nd paragraph of your post implies that Bowmans challenge was in some way deliberate which i dont think it was. Lets be honest about this if Bowman or any other Motherwell player had made a similar tackle against a player from any other team in Scotland apart from Celtic, Rangers or Aberdeen and possibly Hearts would we be reading about it in the papers or suffering trial by TV...no. The media particularly in the west constantly pander to the Green and Blue ugly sisters their players can do no wrong and this is particularly true with Celtic they are always the victims, would there have been the same outcry if Brown or Tierney had tackled Bowman the same way,no it would have been reported as solid defending or some other bullshit description. Nah in no way was it deliberate. Given the profile and potential of Tierney at club and international level an injury to him would have generated a lot of attention, and rightly so imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 See it was the main topic of conversation at the Celtic presser today, and Brendan has changed his mind. Comparing Bowmans challenge to the challenge on John Kennedy. By next week it will be compared to the assassination of John F Kennedy. So a tackle last Saturday is likely to be on the back pages the following Friday! FFS! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4253178/Brendan-Rodgers-calls-referees-protect-players.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Lets take a hypothetical case, in some ways similar to the case of Elliot Frear at Aberdeen. A ball comes to a player at say 30 cms off the ground with an opportunity to shoot at goal. He has a split second to react and, as far as he is aware, there is no opponent adjacent to him (its impractical for him to stop and look around to check). He attempts to whack the ball as hard as he can to beat the keeper. Unfortunately at the last minute a hitherto unseen opponent sticks a leg out and receives a hard boot on the shin just after the first player makes contact with the ball. Is that a red card due to excessive force? Will players be told not to hit the ball too hard in case someone else gets whacked? Are we going to ask players to hold back when tackling in case an opponent is injured? I know its a made up example but my point is that the interpretation of the law now seems to be too complicated and open to debate. Lets not forget that players have a split second to react as do referees. I always think if the only injury you are likely to get is bruising or a dead leg then it is not excessive, if there is a chance of a deep gash or bone break then it could be. That's why I think McHugh and Kiernan's were yellows as they were low and in my view, in control despite being harder than average. And why I think McDonald was correctly binned as had he missed the ball he was over the ball and could have broken the leg and Bowman's rake down the leg could have caused a proper bad injury. Of the four red card incidents affecting our players this year I think Bowman's was the worst followed by Lucas, McDonald and McHugh in that order and I don't for a second doubt all four only had eyes for the ball. Refereeing mistakes happen, of course they do and that clouds the interpretation. Being honest the McHugh one is the only one I've really strongly disagreed with the media reaction for any team all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Dele Alli looks like he would fit in at Fir Park... https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/834868653241856004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Except our lot at least try to play the ball, Alli was just a bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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