wellowell Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 We do even though McHugh our best midfielder he's played most of career in central defence so for ne next week if Tait fit back line should be Griffiths tait Heneghan mvhugh and McMillan but only chance of getting that is if we have a new manager because McGhee won't go with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Jesus! See what happens when you take Hammell, McManus and Lasley out.... But seriously. Just utterly utterly abysmal, and for me worse than Pittodrie recently. Worse than Tynecastle and Parkhead last year. I don't consider hefty defeats pleasant in the least but when they are dished out by half decent teams with the bit between their teeths then sometimes you just have to suck it up and take it on the chin. To be 5-1 down to someone like Dundee at half-time however, at home, when you've gift wrapped just about every one of their goals. That is something different entirely. That is sacking material. The opening forty-five minutes was as horrific a display of defending and goalkeeping as you could imagine. No shape.Nobody taking responsibility. No leadership. I remember shaking my head and laughing as Chalmers looked up the line in the first half in front of the East Stand, looking to pass it forward he immediately kicked the ball straight out of the park not more than about 5 yards ahead of him. That this particular display of ineptitude probably doesn't fit into our 5 most shambolic incidents of the game says it all. It is obviously a huge worry where we go from here. The saving grace for us appeared to be the ability to eek out results against the teams around us. If that goes now too.....? This was supposed to be the first of a run of games that where we knew what had to be done and would deliver. That's been fair blown out of the water and as McGhee has put it in the past how does he sell them a story that'll make them believe they can go down to Kilmarnock and get a result after that? If he's still here, he and his coaching team have quite a week of work ahead of them to stabilise things after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 https://vid.me/iAjL Goals for your viewing pleasure. Jules and/or Chalmers at fault for 4 out of 5 (can't make out whose at the back post for the 5th - Heneghan?) however I don't actually blame them. The blame lies firmly at McGhee's door. We've got 5 first team centre mids to choose from yet only 2 first team centre halves. Yes, we've lost 3 of our back 4 however surely we should have enough depth in the squad to still have at least one of those positions filled with someone with a bit of experience. McMillan and Heneghan have coped well - Chalmers and Jules need to play alongside more experience to see them through the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 I take it you weren't at the game worst goalkeeping / left back display I've seen in years. Samson is the worst keeper we have had for many a year. Perhaps overstated my case in the heat of the moment, but I certainly wouldn't say Samson was the main culprit for the goals today, and sarcastic applause when he made subsequent saves was helping nobody. First goal aside, Dundee's players were given loads of time and space for the goals. There's an argument to be made that Samson could and should be organising them to a point, but they're grown men who have been playing football for a good chunk of years, surely the outfield players have to take the flak for today's goals? On a more general note, I don't rate Samson as a keeper, and he gives me the fear, but he didn't deserve the shit he took today when others were more culpable. And yes, I was there, had a pretty good view of all the goals we conceded from the Cooper stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 The first was actually worse than I thought at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 An appalling display today which I just didn't see coming. Thank goodness Dundee took their foot off the gas in the second 45. They worked damned hard and looked competitive but that was it. They didn't look anything out of the ordinary. Much criticism has been levelled at Jules and Chalmers and I can understand why. However this was a real team effort. Our midfield, McHugh apart was powderpuff and ineffective. I was hugely disappointed with one of my usual favourites Pearson who along with Clay was anonymous. They gave the young players behind them no support at all and Chalmers suffered more than most in this respect. As I thought, Pearo played in the middle not out wide. Cadden tried hard but suffered from lack of support and was invariably crowded out. I would have thought that McGhee would have made changes at say 3-1 but he chose to wait until far later in the proceedings to bring on Frear. The latter was starved of service but looked promising in flashes although a bit lightweight. Moult and MacDonald tried their best but suffered from lack of service. Would Hammell and Lasley have made much difference - I doubt it. McManus - hard to say but I doubt it. I was wrong about not playing McHugh in defence. He did make a difference when moved there but Dundee did ease off and he was missed in midfield. What was concerning was how most of the the team just crumbled in the first half and it was clear that they just didn't want to be there. That plus a few other telling incidents suggest that the manager has lost the dressing room. A 5-1 hammering, at home, against mediocre rivals just isn't acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 If we continue on this run of form we will be relegated (or at the very least in a play-off to save our premiership status). It would seem that McGhee has lost the plot and the dressing room. If something doesn’t change soon a St. Mirren style fall from grace is on the horizon. It’s difficult to defend his recent record and erratic behaviour and I suspect it’s only a matter of time before somebody pulls the plug on his tenure as manger, or he resigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 For all the calamity in the defence yesterday, we have as many problems up the other end of the pitch. From the start of the season we have struggled to score more than 1 goal in a game, and in this league, you aren't winning games like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinnae-punt-it Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Perhaps overstated my case in the heat of the moment, but I certainly wouldn't say Samson was the main culprit for the goals today, and sarcastic applause when he made subsequent saves was helping nobody. First goal aside, Dundee's players were given loads of time and space for the goals. There's an argument to be made that Samson could and should be organising them to a point, but they're grown men who have been playing football for a good chunk of years, surely the outfield players have to take the flak for today's goals? On a more general note, I don't rate Samson as a keeper, and he gives me the fear, but he didn't deserve the shit he took today when others were more culpable. And yes, I was there, had a pretty good view of all the goals we conceded from the Cooper stand. Samson's positioning for a couple of the goals is very suspect. He leaves a huge portion of the goal for Haber and Co to aim for. He wasn't the worst, but a half decent keeper would have stopped at least 2 of the goals if not more. He is a total imposter and always has been. He played in the same youth team as one of my mates and he has always maintained that Samson must have some agent to keep getting top flight clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinnae-punt-it Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Look at the difference between Scot Bain's save from Clay in the 2nd half vs Samson's attempt at saving Mark O'Hara's goal or Haber's first. Yes we have problems all over the pitch, but none bigger than those caused by Samson. Maybe if he instilled more confidence the defence would settle down a bit more; instead they always look like they are on tender hooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 We were utterly desperate yesterday. Goal 1 - An aimless lump into the box. My dad had just said to me we hadn't won a header in the box yet, when we did win one I wished we hadn't bothered. Samson maybe should have done more communicating but back looping headers into the middle of the goal should never be the default thing to attempt. Goal 2 - Chalmers was doing not very much to prevent the ball getting to Haber, when it got there Jules was caught wrong side but to be fair it was a beautiful turn and finish by Haber. I think this one looked like Samson should have done better because he was so close to it but I think Jules was blocking his view. Goal 3 - Again Chalmers not in the proximity as the ball was played in to O'Hara and Jules wasn't marking. Both a bit culpable and I feel Samson should definitely have saved this one. Goal 4 - Well where to start with this. Ojamaa wins a header unchecked in the D, they then spray around 5 or 6 tackles unchecked before someone runs at Chalmers, he runs out, looks a bit feart and let them run passed him to play in Ojamaa who found an unmarked Wighton - so unmarked I've no idea whose man he was. Goal 5 - Heneghan goes into a daft tackle. Three guys unmarked at the back post who were surely Chalmers and Jules' men. Samson maybe could have come but I think it was maybe a smidgeon high for him not to leave the centre of his goal. McMillan made a couple of poor errors on the other side too but I think he escaped as much criticism because McGowan and O'Hara wasted the chances from them. McHugh made a difference at centre half but it's hard to tell how much because Dundee's intensity certainly dropped and given they have another game on Tuesday I don't blame them. We got a few chances in the second half. Frear did well when he came on which was one of the few bright (all things being relative) spots. I just heard them say on Sportscene that Partick Thistle have kept seven clean sheets in the last ten! We've kept two all season. For all our weaknesses were exposed yesterday, this is not a new issue because McManus and Hammell were injured. Think we missed them as organisers more than defenders yesterday but we were awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 We have an infinite list of problems right now and Samson (who is utter shite) is only one of these. Replacing Samson whilst it would improve the team wouldn't necessarily save us from relegation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 With the goals yesterday, at least 3 of them you saw coming a mile away, to the point a where it was as if they were being replayed in slow motion in front of you. I didn't know what to say at half time. Utterly amateurish performance and a complete lack of game intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinnae-punt-it Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 We have an infinite list of problems right now and Samson (who is utter shite) is only one of these. Replacing Samson whilst it would improve the team wouldn't necessarily save us from relegation Wholeheartedly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Since we don't know how good Griffiths is I'm not convinced dropping Samson would improve the team. In a thread somewhere, someone said he didn't look great either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleeastdave Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Since we don't know how good Griffiths is I'm not convinced dropping Samson would improve the team. In a thread somewhere, someone said he didn't look great either. Saw Griffiths in the under 20's last week, was not really that impressed with him, although he did a lot of shouting to his fellow defenders, so he seems commanding that way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Goals look even worse on the highlights than they did at the time. Didn't realise Samson was so culpable, although I shouldn't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhandluc Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 Saw Griffiths in the under 20's last week, was not really that impressed with him, although he did a lot of shouting to his fellow defenders, so he seems commanding that way!! I watched the 1st half( it was freezing!) of under 20s v St johnstone and Oliver Pain looked good in goals. Whether he's ready to step up to first team, I'm not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshillWell Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm most concerned with Partick and Kilmarnock. Both played extremely well and they'd cut right through us. Although Jules is culpable for a lot of goals in recent games, I hope this experience doesn't destroy his confidence and career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Back four with an average age of 21. Might be a good idea for people to remember that before losing the plot at them today... How did that go, if you dont mind me asking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Where to start with this...I tend not to post at the weekends, as its much more enjoyable posting on company time, so its gave me a day or two think about how bad we actually were. Dundee played well, but by fuck we made it easy for them, to the extent that I couldn't say that they had to work particularly hard for any of their goals. Hartley had clearly done his homework and realised that we don't have an adequate left-back, and his team exposed SloJoe time and time again. No harm to the lad, but he is making me pine for the days of Shakey Straker at full-back, excruciatingly slow, lacking in any sort of defensive ability, horrendous decision-making and why he was taking all the set-pieces I'll never know. Utter, utter shite, and should have been hooked at half-time. Jules beside him, was like a rabbit caught in the headlights, this was the 1st time I have witnessed the boy play...he looks like a player, and comes with a pedigree, but he's fucking rotten as well. Lacklustre, naive, watch him when the ball is in the air and he matches his man, rather than attempting to go for the ball...needless to say he is not the dominant centre-back that we are looking for. Samson, I was well warned by Killie-supporting mates, that this guy has made a career out of football, when his talents don't suggest that he should have. I was more than willing to give him a go this season, but some of the stuff from him has been appalling...the 1st goal on Saturday, I lay the blame firmly at his door. As a youth coach myself, I'm more inclined to lay the blame at the guy who's rushing out with his hands ready to grab the ball, whilst not uttering a word, rather than the guy who is at least attempting to head the ball in the 18 yard box...anyone that reckons Jules was trying to header that back to the keeper if off their rocker, he mis-timed his jump and flicked it over the outcoming Samson...had the keeper fucking opened his mouth, we wouldn't have lost a goal so early. These three are taking some right stick on here and at the match on Saturday, and rightly so in my opinion. They are shite, the three of them, not good enough...but what I haven't seen so much of, is criticism for Heneghan and McMillan, who were absolutely tragic as well. How many headers does Heneghan win over the course of Saturdays 1st half? Watch him for goal number 5...we spotted it in the East Stand, he was marking 3 players at the back post, and appeared completely happy to do so, rather than telling his team-mates that he required assistance...the result, we lose a cheap goal and the blame lies at his door. As for young McMillan, I'm sorry, I just don't see it with the lad, to me he doesn't read the flow of the game particularly well, kept getting caught on the wrong side of his man and doesn't really offer much in an attacking sense either. I pretty much called the team that would start spot-on, other than Clay started instead of Lucas and McMillan started for Tait, the shape was entirely the way I thought McGhee would go, and I worried about our lack of width. Cadden has either enjoyed a purple patch where he has looked like a player and has now come out of it with opposition players now aware of him, or he has some sort of niggle that is holding him back...either way, he is looking worse than ordinary currently, to the point that he is offering absolutely nothing. With Pearson as our other 'wide-man', our creativity was always going to be in question and he offered even less the Cadden. The midfield 2 tried to compete, but unfortunately I don't think Clay will ever do for us, he doesnt seem to have the desired quality and offers very little in the way of assists, or goals. McHugh is a player I genuinely like, as are Moult and McDonald, for me these three are the only guys that can really walk away with their heads held high after that shitfest that we witnessed and endured. Being thankful for small mercies, Paul Hartley has clearly had one eye on their match against Thistle this Wednesday, as I'm almost certain that his half-time message to his players would have been, 'job done, take no risks, don't get injured and just see the game out', the second half was one team toying with the other, and those that reckon McHugh being put in at the back solidified us may have a point, but I'd put more nous in the point that Dundee had finished their work for the day. As a McGhee-defender for want of a better word, the thing that disappointed me most was that we started the second half with exactly the same team and set-up as we had in the 1st...if it were me, I'd have been at least looking to prove a point, and hooked 2 or 3 of the players at half-time after going absolutely bat-shit crazy in the dressing room. The players should have been fired up to at least steal a goal or two and that didn't seem to be the case, which as I say, is extremely disappointing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Cadden has either enjoyed a purple patch where he has looked like a player and has now come out of it with opposition players now aware of him, or he has some sort of niggle that is holding him back...either way, he is looking worse than ordinary currently, to the point that he is offering absolutely nothing. Am I the only one who can see a comparison between Cadden and Clarkson under Butcher? With Ainsworth not featuring that much this season and the other type of players in our midfield, Cadden has been our only outball all season. Much like Clarkson under Butcher in his first season, Cadden has been run into the ground this season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Am I the only one who can see a comparison between Cadden and Clarkson under Butcher? With Ainsworth not featuring that much this season and the other type of players in our midfield, Cadden has been our only outball all season. Much like Clarkson under Butcher in his first season, Cadden has been run into the ground this season... Thats pretty much what I'm getting at...hes either really struggling for fitness just now through over-use or injury, or he has been playing above himself since he came into the team and is now being found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Huge fan of Cadden but he hasn't looked right since picking up an injury against Celtic after a storming 1st half. Despite the assist, his performance at Ibrox was hard to watch. Added to this, he is expected to be the sole attacking outlet from midfield which is an unfair pressure on him. For all his assets he doesn't have the guile to open up organised defences. His game is all about carrying the ball and breaking into space but such space isn't going to appear when you don't have a Marvin occupying multiple defenders. McGhee's main failure this season has been the inability to find a formation that works. The overuse of Cadden on the right, while Ainsworth has been treated like an outcast, has done nobody any favours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Am I the only one who can see a comparison between Cadden and Clarkson under Butcher? With Ainsworth not featuring that much this season and the other type of players in our midfield, Cadden has been our only outball all season. Much like Clarkson under Butcher in his first season, Cadden has been run into the ground this season... This post may not go down well here but here goes. its ok MB you should be allowed to call 'one of our own' shite as that's exactly what he has been of late, along with just about everyone else in the team. He needs to add something extra to his game as, at this moment in time, is easy to play against eg repeatedly running in to a defender and unsuccessfully trying to kick the ball past the full back and chase is becoming tiresome. Decent scouting in advance easily counters his main attributes. Maybe he's not been coached properly who knows? There's no doubt he tries, arguably more than others, but he's in with the big boys now we need quality along with effort. By way of comparison Richard tait has scored the same amount of goals as him and probably 3 times as many assists while cadden will have probably have similar goals and assists stats as ainsworth despite having significantly more game time. I'm happy to be corrected on these assumptions. And yes I'm fully aware cadden is better defensively than ainsworth. I'm not having it that he's burned out - we've had a few extra league cup games this season offset by having no preseason friendlies beforehand, as well as a winter break, therefore it's more down to form, lack of confidence, or as mentioned above defenders now know how to play against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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