S Robinson Motherwell Manager

[underboyleheating]

So here's to you Mr Robinson

Only to be sung if he keeps us up...

 

Mr. Robinson

 

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson

Motherwell loves you more than you will know

Wo wo wo

God bless you, please, Mr. Robinson

Fir Park is the place where we all pray

Hey hey hey, hey hey hey

[capt_oats]

But surely Marvin, McHugh and Moult are the only players in 2 years we have purchased, everyone else has been a free. All three players have something about them and I feel confident they'll move on for a good return. Granted 2 years ago it was down to the Les, new toy, naivety but out of that we got Marvin which I recall Flow saying was potentially one of the most lucrative sales in the clubs history.

Not quite. McHugh was free. Both Bowman and Frear were 'undisclosed' fees.

So we've paid fees for Johnson, Moult, Bowman and Frear. 50% hit rate thus far in terms of fees paid.

[steelboy]

But surely Marvin, McHugh and Moult are the only players in 2 years we have purchased, everyone else has been a free.

Be sure and put your name forward for head of scouting. However as you're the only person with a player potential crystal ball and your added power of hindsight, won't be long until Real Madrid comes knocking.

 

We paid money for Bowman and Frear.

 

I don't claim to have a crystal ball but I do think it's common sense that we should be trying to sign players from as many areas as possible rather than just non league English football or those about to drop into it. We've signed one outfield player (in the loosest sense) playing in Scotland in the past three years. We haven't signed any foreign players since Anier. We need to be spreading the net as wide as possible.

 

Every team will have failures but I would be extremely surprised if any of the teams we are competing with have wasted as much money as we have over the past few seasons.

[dossertillidie]

Going to make a prediction here and say that regardless of whether we stay up or not, Robinson will only be in charge until the end of the season and we will see a new man (wouldn't be surprised if it was Simo)at the end of the season with a new management team and a new look team for next season

[Lobey_Dosser]

Going to make a prediction here and say that regardless of whether we stay up or not, Robinson will only be in charge until the end of the season and we will see a new man (wouldn't be surprised if it was Simo)at the end of the season with a new management team and a new look team for next season

That would my hunch; not necessarily Simo mind you.

[Haggischomper]

Then why would we have given Robinson a contract until next May which would have to be paid up?

[steelboy]

There could be a clause where we could pay him off cheap in May.

 

It's worth remembering back to when Barraclough was appointed and his contract status was top secret. The club like a bit of smoke and mirrors.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Maybe Robinson rejected a deal to the end of the season...

 

A 14 month contract smacks of compromise.

[capt_oats]

It seems like stating the obvious but I think it depends how he does in the run in. If he starts picking up points and winning games then I'd imagine he'd be given a crack at it next season, in the knowledge that if it doesn't look like it's working early they can take action early. As they did with Baraclough.

 

If he struggles then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we looked at another option in summer. A break clause in the summer could actually suit both parties tbh and give either side an easy way out should they want it.

 

It's a bit of a stretch to say that there willl *definitely* be a change in summer though.

[dossertillidie]

 

Then why would we have given Robinson a contract until next May which would have to be paid up

 

A contract until the end of the Season gives rise to uncertainty, a year with an agreement to allow coaching staff to follow alternative ambitions at the end of the season doesn't #smokeandmirrors

[Spiderpig]

Going to make a prediction here and say that Robinson will only be in charge until the end of the season and we will see a new man (wouldn't be surprised if it was Simo)

FFS when is all this crap about Valakari going to end, the man has been interviewed twice now that we know of on 2 separate occasions for the managers job and both times he has been ignored. So we have to assume that he does not do interviews well or the board think he is unsuitable and not god's gift to football management as some on here obviously think he is. He never got the job deal with it and move on

[dossertillidie]

FFS when is all this crap about Valakari going to end, the man has been interviewed twice now that we know of on 2 separate occasions for the managers job and both times he has been ignored. So we have to assume that he does not do interviews well or the board think he is unsuitable and not god's gift to football management as some on here obviously think he is. He never got the job deal with it and move on

There's a reason he got interviewed again this time and I'm sure there's a reason he hasn't been offered it with a few months to go, wholesale changes being one we can't afford with people in contract

 

Only said I wouldn't be surprised if at some point he does end up our gaffer, but there's a few more I'd add to that list as well.

 

As Iv said before behind Robinson for as long he's in charge whether that's a few months or a few years

[Kmcalpin]

For me, a couple of things have now crystalised:

.

1. Motherwell FC is no longer an attractive club to manage in the eyes of the football fraternity.

 

2. Our lack of finance perhaps explains why Mark McGhee was having to trawl deeper and deeper into the nether regions and hinterlands of English football for players.

A well reasoned and set out post El Grew, which has generated discussion, but I don't necessarily agree with most of it.

 

Are we no longer an attractive club to manage? Were we ever? I've trawled through our previous managers and I really don't think the current recruitment pool is any worse than it ever was. Its full of first time managers - Sailor Hunter, George Stevenson, Bobby Howitt, Roger Hynd, Davie Hay, Alex McLeish, Billy Davies and so on. Also quite a few managers from Scots lower league clubs such as Bobby Ancell, Tommy MacLean, Bobby Watson, and Willie MacLean. Also a few wild cards like Harri Kampmann and Ian Baraclough. At the time of appointment would they be much different to the likes of Simo Valakari, Lee MacCulloch, and Barry Ferguson?

 

In terms of lack of finance, are we any worse off than say St Johnstone, Partick, Inverness, Hamilton, and Kilmarnock?

 

As for Mark McGhee's departure there may have been more to it than a group of young lads protesting. Two very bad hammerings, a poor run and erratic behaviour. Whilst there was most certainly a small public demonstration, almost universal talk in the stands amongst fans of all ages was that he should go. Yes, there were a few who thought he should stay but not many.

 

I think more than most managerial changes, quite a lot has gone on behind the scenes with this one that we aren't party to. A few well founded snippets have emerged such as contact with Owen Coyle. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the process and outcome ie why invite Simo Valakari across from Finland and then pass him over in favour of the internal candidate, but I don't know the internal behind the scenes goings on.

[Yassin]

I'm sure we let Simo know he was just one of several candidates we were interviewing. If anything he got a wee holiday out of it so I don't feel too bad for him.

[weeyin]

If we had appointed Robinson immediately, people would have complained. If we hadn't spoken to Simo this time, other people would have complained. If we'd appointed Simo, some different people would still have complained.

 

There were people complaining when Alex Neil was suggested - a gaffer who had a 54.5% win ratio with Accies and a 41.7% ratio with Norwich.

 

Bottom line is, we are a miserable bunch, and whoever was appointed and regardless of the process followed, there was guaranteed to a number of unhappy punters.

 

What isn't surprising is there are people already hoping he'll be punted in the summer and the guy hasn't even had one game in charge as manager yet.

[capt_oats]

Are we no longer an attractive club to manage? Were we ever? I've trawled through our previous managers and I really don't think the current recruitment pool is any worse than it ever was. Its full of first time managers - Sailor Hunter, George Stevenson, Bobby Howitt, Roger Hynd, Davie Hay, Alex McLeish, Billy Davies and so on. Also quite a few managers from Scots lower league clubs such as Bobby Ancell, Tommy MacLean, Bobby Watson, and Willie MacLean. Also a few wild cards like Harri Kampmann and Ian Baraclough. At the time of appointment would they be much different to the likes of Simo Valakari, Lee MacCulloch, and Barry Ferguson?

As an extension to this I'd suggest taking a bit of perspective and consider the appointments that those clubs around us in the league have made. There's a lot of chat on various social media channels and forums with fans "underwhelmed" having been looking for a fresh appointment etc.

 

Looking back over the past couple of seasons since Baraclough replaced McCall, how many of our contemporaries have been making managerial appointments that suggest they are any more "attractive"?

 

Motherwell: Stuart McCall (resigned) > Ian Baraclough (sacked) > Mark McGhee (sacked) > Stephen Robinson

St Mirren: Tommy Craig (sacked) > Gary Teale

Accies: Alex Neil (to Norwich) > Martin Canning

Kilmarnock: Allan Johnstone (sacked) > Gary Locke (sacked) > Lee Clark (to Bury) > Lee McCulloch (caretaker until end of season)

Dundee United: Jackie McNamara (sacked) > Mixu Paatelainen (sacked) > Gordon Young (interim)

Celtic: Ronny Deila (resigned) > Brendan Rodgers

Inverness Caledonian Thistle: John Hughes (resigned) > Richie Foran

Heart of Midlothian: Robbie Neilsen (to MK Dons) > Ian Cathro

Rangers: Mark Warburton (sacked) > Pedro Caixinha

 

Strip away sides with bigger budgets like Celtic, Rangers and Hearts and you're looking at Locke, Clark, Paatelainen, McCulloch, Canning, Foran? Even someone like Archibald at Thistle stepped up internally to replace McNamara, Hartley moved to Dundee from Alloa. Some have done good jobs others less so, Paatelainen saw United relegated at Dens for example. Either way I don't really see any of those names or profiles at the time of appointment reconciling with the sort of expectations often displayed by sections of our fanbase.

[weeyin]

In the 70s and 80s Liverpool did quite well with internal promotions to the manager's job.

 

Bottom line is that any recruitment is a gamble. I doubt even the most optimistic supporters could have predicted the spell of success McCall had during his time. Similarly, Tommy McLean's woeful first few season in charge gave no indication of the success he'd have towards the end of his tenure.

[superward]

Perspective. The key word there and something a lot of people need on here.

 

As for the underwhelmed camp...I'm not seeing a lot of alternative realistic suggestions other than Simo....is Simo the new 'but he must be better than what we have!' for this period aye?

[Shire Greats]

People are complaining about signing players from non league football but want a manager who managed in Finland ......look at the last guy we got from Irish football , who had won leagues

[scoojy]

I'm still not 100% comfortable with the process and outcome ie why invite Simo Valakari across from Finland and then pass him over in favour of the internal candidate, but I don't know the internal behind the scenes goings on.

As was said previously, that's how interviews work.

When I was about 20 I had to travel to London for a 2nd interview (1st interview was in EK). I didn't get the job.

I would imagine many people have had similar experiences.

[superward]

As was said previously, that's how interviews work.

When I was about 20 I had to travel to London for a 2nd interview (1st interview was in EK). I didn't get the job.

I would imagine many people have had similar experiences.

Indeed.

 

Are people trying to say we were going to appoint Robinson all along but invited interviewees in to cover that up? Behave. A decison made and the chairman and board thought he was the best AVAILABLE candidate.

[ONeils40yarder]

I'm hearing that Coyle was the man the board wanted, he initially suggested that he would be up for it and then reneged on that when he was informed that taking on a role so soon after being bagged by Blackburn would harm his compensation payments from them...

 

...now, if this is true (and I was told right at the start of this that Coyle was a shoe-in for the job), then it looks to me like we have at least had a plan in our heads for who we wanted to replace McGhee. Unfortunately, something outwith our control has scuppered that deal and left us scrambling about a wee bit.

 

Now, I have no real opinion on Steve Robinson as an individual, I'm almost certain that I've never heard the guy speak or even read any quotes attributed to him, but his c.v. is spectacularly unimpressive. By all accounts he's a good, defensive-minded coach, who has to some degree played his part in Northern Irelands recent, relative, success. Other than that, he was part of the Ian Baraclough regime that was a total disaster and then lasted a few months as gaffer at Oldham before being bagged while they were rock bottom of whichever league they play in.

 

Now, I accept and understand that Oldham are a basketcase, with some hellish financial problems that culminated in transfer restrictions, and I wouldn't hold being sacked in those circumstances against anyone...BUT...take that off his c.v. altogether and his resume is basically as a part-time coach with NI and as our Assistant Manager for a few months. This is a guy we are entrusting to firstly, save our bacon this season and secondly, to renew contracts and rebuild a playing squad that will be (and should be) decimated by players going out of contract, or hopefully retiring. It doesnt add up for me, yes, I understand that those at the Club know him better than I do, and hopefully see a potentially great manager with the ability to add a bit of longevity to his career with our Club, but I get the feeling that he's been the best of a bad lot in terms of risk, particularly when we have a look at the other names that were quoted as being on the shortlist, albeit unofficially.

 

If the deal was 'get us to the end of the season and we'll re-evaluate the position then', I'd have been much more comfortable with it. I fully expect us to steer clear of relegation, like I thought we would under McGhee, by shitfesting our way to as many points as we can gain through draws or sneaking 1-0 victories, which I am completely fine with, needs must and if he wants to go 5 at the back like up at Pittodrie I am fully supportive, as our survival this season is paramount. What I am struggling to believe is that we gave him a contract for next season as well...

 

...in my opinion, Robinson has held them to ransom a wee bit, when its became clear that their No1 target wasn't available and they didn't fancy the other guys on the shortlist, at this time*. Robinson has hinted that he has other options (ie a coaching role down South) and we've shat it and offered him a longer deal than we wanted to.

 

The whole thing has been handled poorly, from bringing Robinson back to assist McGhee (at who's insistence?, why did we still go onto get pumped with him in the dugout?), to the board sacking McGhee (yes, results were horrific but would he have been safe if the protest hadn't taken place, and do we just need to get a bus full of youngsters to stage a demo, armed to the teeth with a loud-haler, a black ink marker and some lining paper anytime we want change going forward), to the timescales we've worked to (16 days of limbo, while stuck in a relegation battle) and to ultimately promoting our 1st team coach over the head of the Assistant Manager, which says even more about the management structure at the Club.

 

I'm 100% behind him and will be at Fir Park on Saturday, like I said I would be regardless of who got the job and hope to God that it works out for all concerned, but I'm far from convinced that the Club have got the result that they wanted from this and worry that we are rudderless in terms of leadership right at the top, and I include Alan Burrows in this, who I know reasonably well.

 

I also worry, about the influence of, what appears to be, a senior player clique at the Club and our over-reliance on the opinion of these players. The likes of Lasley, Hammell and McFadden are now on the coaching staff as well as being within the playing budget, and while they have been tremendous servants to the Club and have been recompensed adequately for that servitude over the years I'd imagine, I'm not totally comfortable with their presence in 'both camps' if you like. I can understand the Club, wanting to try and manage some sort of succession plan with the management team, but I just wonder if thats in their thoughts when they appointed Robinson, given the noises coming from some of the senior players about how they were behind Robinson...of course they would, because to some extent it makes their coaching jobs safer, than say if Simo Valakari came in with his own ideas for the Club. Then you have the Craigan link...I'm pretty sure he'll have given his thoughts on Robinson somewhere down the line.

 

*by 'at this time', I'm thinking of Valakari...while he ticks a few boxes, young, ambitious, done well in his previous role, former player, bit of a fans favourite...it would have been a monumental risk, and a mistake, to appoint him now, and to expect him to hit the ground running. Thats the type of appointment you make in the Summer if you ask me.

[Guest]

As was said previously, that's how interviews work.

When I was about 20 I had to travel to London for a 2nd interview (1st interview was in EK). I didn't get the job.

I would imagine many people have had similar experiences.

 

Aye, you don't get a job because you came from further away.

 

Except that one time I got a job for coming from further away.

 

 

I also worry, about the influence of, what appears to be, a senior player clique at the Club and our over-reliance on the opinion of these players. The likes of Lasley, Hammell and McFadden are now on the coaching staff as well as being within the playing budget, and while they have been tremendous servants to the Club and have been recompensed adequately for that servitude over the years I'd imagine, I'm not totally comfortable with their presence in 'both camps' if you like. I can understand the Club, wanting to try and manage some sort of succession plan with the management team, but I just wonder if thats in their thoughts when they appointed Robinson, given the noises coming from some of the senior players about how they were behind Robinson...of course they would, because to some extent it makes their coaching jobs safer, than say if Simo Valakari came in with his own ideas for the Club. Then you have the Craigan link...I'm pretty sure he'll have given his thoughts on Robinson somewhere down the line.

 

Yep. As I'd highlighted yesterday, Lasley has made the same statement, following broadly the same situation, three times now. Chuck in the general bad feeling of Gannon, and the stitching up of Baraclough by Mark Wilson and 'Motherwell sources' when it looked like we might go down, and you've got a collection of murky feeling whenever it isn't quite going their way.

 

I get that players are doing a job, and to an extent, all of us have probably chucked it under a shite manager at work, but the regularity at which we do it is alarming.

[milo]

There have been quite a few long well thought out posts on here that now have me much more worried about the future than I was previously.

 

Cheers guys!

[Andy_P]

Crikey. That's some achievement!