The Great Rebuild 2017'18

[fizoxy]

There's also the chance that the player didn't want more than a year either.

[Guest]

Not much scope for selling on if he performs well this season with only a 1 year deal, unless the club have an option to extend.

True, but on the flipside if we have a genuinely good centre half for a year I'll cope.

[middleeastdave]

Has anyone any idea who the players that he wants move on (I assume it is to move on NOT loaned out) in order to bring another player, I assume Blythe, Thomas will be on that radar, I would like to think he will need Bowman, but I suppose if he could get him moved on he would, but our worst scenario is for Moult to be sold on transfer deadline day!!

[daver]

I'm sorry I just don't buy this at all. Do you believe clubs have parity across their team in terms of wages? It's a reality of the game that the star players get the most money. Not everyone is on the same wage, not even close. A lot of them will be on similar money but the prized asset should be on the most if they are playing the best. The dressing room being totally unhappy over this is a total exaggeration in my opinion. Crazy that people are making an argument to pay some of the above the same as Moult

By coincidence I was reading the Tommy Coyne interview in the first Off Air book from the Podcast guys a few nights ago. He mentioned that the squad in his day were all on similar wages which helped generate a real time spirit. Bearing in mind he was the league's top scorer and played in the World Cup he was the very definition of star player. Times may have changed but we still have to stick to a budget and I'm sure having someone on a lot more money but not help squad harmony.

[dossertillidie]

I'd pretty much put my mortgage on one of moult,Cadden or heneghan being sold before the window closes.

 

Would prefer it to be heneghan and for us to sign dembele as a replacement but I am about 90% sure it will be cadden for some reason that gets sold

 

That frees up funds to bring in the two he wants

 

Outwith that clay,Blyth and bowman is who I understand to be the 3 on the way out

[capt_oats]

I'd pretty much put my mortgage on one of moult,Cadden or heneghan being sold before the window closes.

 

Would prefer it to be heneghan and for us to sign dembele as a replacement but I am about 90% sure it will be cadden for some reason that gets sold

 

That frees up funds to bring in the two he wants

 

Outwith that clay,Blyth and bowman is who I understand to be the 3 on the way out

 

I'd have thought it'd be Heneghan tbh. Not based on anything other than the fact we've chosen to offer deals to Moult and McHugh just now whereas Heneghan's a "sellable asset" that we've not made an offer to extend AFAIK. I get that we've said we can only offer new deals a couple at a time so there's obviously prioritising involved but it seems significant that we've got deals on the table for 2 but not him.

 

Apart from that I saw a couple of mentions of Sheffield United being in for him the other day as well. He's been one of the players that there seems to have been consistent chatter about. How much of it is credible IDK but given we're actively looking to sell then not offering him a new deal right now seems telling IMO.

[Villageman]

 

Dembele was much more accomplished against Stirling.

 

Wasn't at the Livingston match but based on what I've seen it kind of worries me a bit.

Agree Dembele was against Stirling, but they were evenly matched at Livingston. Just shows worries should not be based on 45 minutes showing. If that was the case you should worry about McManus, he was by far the poorest of the centre backs on view over the two games.

[Kmcalpin]

I'd have thought that Luke Watt and Dom Thomas too might be deemed to be surplus to requirements.

[dossertillidie]

 

I'd have thought it'd be Heneghan tbh. Not based on anything other than the fact we've chosen to offer deals to Moult and McHugh just now whereas Heneghan's a "sellable asset" that we've not made an offer to extend AFAIK. I get that we've said we can only offer new deals a couple at a time so there's obviously prioritising involved but it seems significant that we've got deals on the table for 2 but not him.

 

Apart from that I saw a couple of mentions of Sheffield United being in for him the other day as well. He's been one of the players that there seems to have been consistent chatter about. How much of it is credible IDK but given we're actively looking to sell then not offering him a new deal right now seems telling IMO.

I think that would be the clubs preference but I reckon it will be first to offer the value for whatever of the 3 that the buying club comes in for

 

I just have a feeling that someone in England will be in for cadds before we are able to move heneghan on

[grizzlyg]

With all these signings I hope the youngster's aren't being ignored. Would hope that Campbell and McLean are very much in managers plans.

[ropy]

Blyth is going nowhere while he is injured

[Welldaft Mk1]

Blyth is going nowhere while he is injured

Has he not been permanently injured ! Total waste of space.

 

I think Bowman will be kept on. He scored a decent goal last night and is solid back up

[livivoice]

Agree Dembele was against Stirling, but they were evenly matched at Livingston. Just shows worries should not be based on 45 minutes showing. If that was the case you should worry about McManus, he was by far the poorest of the centre backs on view over the two games.

 

Got to disagree about Dembele/Kipre comparison so much so that I am a bit surprised we have signed Kipre.

Dont get me wrong he will get my full support and I recognise that as a young player he will develop. But watching him closely last night what I saw was a lad who clearly lost 2 headed challenges in the box and looked passive throughout.

Dembele on the other hand was [ and yes he is 29] was more confident and self assured and struck me as the ideal replacement for Mc Manus if his full recovery from his long lay off is delayed.

 

Yup I recognise that Dembele may have other rings in the fire and that our pressing need for a CB has led to Kipre`s signing.

 

But as I say I have my doubts about his signing. Then again SR clearly knows more than me. So lets roll the dice.

 

 

Meanwhile I was really impressed with Bigi. I also see a player in Rose who on the strength of the 2 games watched I suspect will be our enforcer .

 

Also encouraged by Tanner who I think will begin to establish himself.

 

As for the others its too early to say.

 

Overall encouraging and that includes Bowman who has shown more in 2 half mattches than he did for the bulk of last season.

 

Onwards and upwards.

[capt_oats]

That's yer Daily Star reporting Hull are interested in Heneghan. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/627530/Chelsea-Transfer-News-Hull-Leonid-Slutskiy-Premier-League-Roman-Abramovich-Loan-Deals

 

 

Hull are looking at Motherwell centre-back Ben Heneghan after losing defenders Harry Magurie, Andrea Ranocchia and Curtis Davies from the squad relegated in May under Marco Silva.

Slutsky added: “We’re close to buying some players. There’s always a lot of speculation about teams relegated from the Premier League and who they will bring in. “Our targets are to keep the squad we have here and make some good additions to it. I want six or seven new players.”

[CoF]

 

Outwith that clay,Blyth and bowman is who I understand to be the 3 on the way out

 

Surprised he's been giving Bowman game time if he's not in his plans.

[Tassinari]

Worrying thing for me on Kipre signing, is that he has a base layer on in June/July. I hope he doesn't disappear between October and March.

[capt_oats]

 

Got to disagree about Dembele/Kipre comparison so much so that I am a bit surprised we have signed Kipre.

Dont get me wrong he will get my full support and I recognise that as a young player he will develop. But watching him closely last night what I saw was a lad who clearly lost 2 headed challenges in the box and looked passive throughout.

Dembele on the other hand was [ and yes he is 29] was more confident and self assured and struck me as the ideal replacement for Mc Manus if his full recovery from his long lay off is delayed.

 

Yup I recognise that Dembele may have other rings in the fire and that our pressing need for a CB has led to Kipre`s signing.

 

But as I say I have my doubts about his signing. Then again SR clearly knows more than me. So lets roll the dice.

 

I'm not sure it's as drastic as that tbh.

 

My interpretation is that Robinson's trying to replace the bodies that were released and try and improve the depth of the squad. I don't necessarily think we've jumped at Kipré's signing. Rather I think we've had him in and decided he fits for the squad role that's needing filled.

 

The fact that we've offered deals to both Dembele and Kipré suggests that even if the former elects to move to a better paying gig we'll still be in the market for a 2nd centre back who's similar to Dembele's profile.

 

Again, it's just my interpretation but looking at the business we've done so far defensively I'd say we've been making like for like changes with (hopefully) better quality coming in;

 

Chalmers (out) - Dunne (in)

Ferguson (out) - Kipré (in)

Jules (out) - Dembele? A.N Other...

 

The point of the Kipré signing for me is the hope that he's an improvement on Ferguson and that he's more first team ready than the u20s centre backs like Maguire, King and Armstrong. I don't imagine that he's been signed in preference to Dembele more that he's been signed because we have 2 spare centre back berths both with certain squad roles and wage budgets.

 

I may be miles out with that but I'd be surprised if he's chucked straight in as a direct replacement for Heneghan or something like that.

[Neilwell86]

Off the back of the last two games i would be surprised if bowman is one of the guys he's actively trying to move on, hes getting game time and he's scoring goals, as well as playing quite well. I'm actually a fan of him, although he cant time a header, he's strong and surprisingly quick for a big guy. definitely a player there, a few goals pre-season, bit of confidence and he will get 10+ this season.

[middleeastdave]

Off the back of the last two games i would be surprised if bowman is one of the guys he's actively trying to move on, hes getting game time and he's scoring goals, as well as playing quite well. I'm actually a fan of him, although he cant time a header, he's strong and surprisingly quick for a big guy. definitely a player there, a few goals pre-season, bit of confidence and he will get 10+ this season.

As much as I would like Bowman to succeed with us, I just cannot see it, I think if he was playing in the championship or first division of the SPFL I think he would be a good asset, on saying that he might score a couple against Rangers on the 6th August and that would set him up for sizeable transfer fee!!!

[livivoice]

 

I'm not sure it's as drastic as that tbh.

 

My interpretation is that Robinson's trying to replace the bodies that were released and try and improve the depth of the squad. I don't necessarily think we've jumped at Kipré's signing. Rather I think we've had him in and decided he fits for the squad role that's needing filled.

 

The fact that we've offered deals to both Dembele and Kipré suggests that even if the former elects to move to a better paying gig we'll still be in the market for a 2nd centre back who's similar to Dembele's profile.

 

Again, it's just my interpretation but looking at the business we've done so far defensively I'd say we've been making like for like changes with (hopefully) better quality coming in;

 

Chalmers (out) - Dunne (in)

Ferguson (out) - Kipré (in)

Jules (out) - Dembele? A.N Other...

 

The point of the Kipré signing for me is the hope that he's an improvement on Ferguson and that he's more first team ready than the u20s centre backs like Maguire, King and Armstrong. I don't imagine that he's been signed in preference to Dembele more that he's been signed because we have 2 spare centre back berths both with certain squad roles and wage budgets.

 

I may be miles out with that but I'd be surprised if he's chucked straight in as a direct replacement for Heneghan or something like that.

 

 

Good points. Only thing that I would add is the Mc Manus factor as it looks to me on the strength of Saturday and Tuesday he is way short of being ready. Therefore Kipre [whilst not being chucked in] will I feel need to hit the ground running from the league cup onwards.

 

Dembele however looks the finished article.

[capt_oats]

Good points. Only thing that I would add is the Mc Manus factor as it looks to me on the strength of Saturday and Tuesday he is way short of being ready. Therefore Kipre [whilst not being chucked in] will I feel need to hit the ground running from the league cup onwards.

 

Dembele however looks the finished article.

 

Yeah, I agree that Dembele looks the more accomplished player and there's a legitimate question there as to whether we should have prioritised getting him on board before Kipré. It's one of those scenarios where you're asking whether we should hold off signing a player we've decided we want and can get to focus on a player who might need a bit of discussion to secure or whether we just get the straightforward deal done and see where the other discussion goes.

 

If we decide to wait and see re: Dembele before sorting out Kipré you run the risk of missing out on both. Though it seems the case that it's Dembele who has other options and is more in demand, I don't imagine Kipré would hang about forever waiting on us to offer him a deal, though by the same token he'd probably be easier to find a replacement for.

 

For me the upshot of this is that it's clear we're in for 2 centre backs, one of whom we've now secured and with regards the 2nd then regardless of whether it's Dembele or someone else it looks like it'll be a more experienced and first team ready player as competition for McManus as opposed to a Zak Jules-a-like. For me it's a positive that someone, somewhere at the club has realised that having Mick as the only experienced centre back and relying on him to play every game is probably not a great idea. Similarly if we are able to move Heneghan on to Hull, Sheffield United or Burnley then I'd imagine we'll be looking at someone equally suited to replace him.

[MelvinBragg]

The thing with Bowman is that he's probably best suited to playing as a 'number 9' leading the line. Same could also be said of Moult and Fisher. Given Robinson targeted Fisher, assuming Moult stays then Bowman would probably start the season as third choice for that role. Moult leaving would probably mean Fisher and Bowman being our two options for that position. For me, none of the three look suited to playing off a main striker in the same way McDonald did. Looking increasingly like Tanner may get a chance in that position unless we can get the other pacy striker in that Robinson is after.

 

On the debate regards Kipré or Dembele being the better player/priority, having seen neither play I won't comment. But as others have said, we needed at least two defenders and the hope would be, as with all signings, that they're better than those they're replacing in the squad. So far (and I know it's not 100% like for like) we're looking at.

 

Carson for Samson

Kipré for Ferguson

Dunne for Chalmers

Bigirmana for Pearson

Rose for Lucas

Tanner for Ainsworth

Fisher for McDonald

 

The two attacking replacements are probably the ones where you would say there's maybe a loss of quality although if Tanner is more consistent than Ainsworth has been recently we may get more out of him over the course of a season and if we can get Blyth off the books, Fisher being seen as his replacement would definitely seem like an upgrade (allowing for the fact we then bring in another striker to replace McDonald).

 

Generally the business we've done this summer has me cautiously optimistic that we may be slightly better than we were last season. Caveat there being if Moult or Heneghan leaves, we're again light on numbers...

[Kmcalpin]

The thing with Bowman is that he's probably best suited to playing as a 'number 9' leading the line. Same could also be said of Moult and Fisher. Given Robinson targeted Fisher, assuming Moult stays then Bowman would probably start the season as third choice for that role. Moult leaving would probably mean Fisher and Bowman being our two options for that position. For me, none of the three look suited to playing off a main striker in the same way McDonald did. Looking increasingly like Tanner may get a chance in that position unless we can get the other pacy striker in that Robinson is after.

 

It depends very much on the system we play. If its a lone striker then I agree with you. If its two strikers then I'd say Moult would feed off the likes of Fisher or Bowman. In many ways, Moult is not suited to a single striker role.

[capt_oats]

On Bowman, I get the impression that we're probably somewhere in between two states with him. I don't think he's necessarily in the same category as say, Blyth who's offered nothing, doesn't look like he wants to be here, is eating a wage and will be released at the end of next season if not sooner nor is he a "sellable asset" in the Heneghan mould ie: someone who we've recruited and there is apparently active interest around.

 

I could see us touting Bowman's name around the sort of level that a striker with 81 goals in 253 games at National League level might be tempting to but beyond that I'd imagine we're pretty *shrug* about it. If he stays he stays, if someone's interested in chucking us a small fee to allow us to recoup what we paid and he's willing to move then great.

 

There are others around the squad I could imagine is being more active in trying to move on.

[MelvinBragg]

On Bowman, I get the impression that we're probably somewhere in between two states with him. I don't think he's necessarily in the same category as say, Blyth who's offered nothing, doesn't look like he wants to be here, is eating a wage and will be released at the end of next season if not sooner nor is he a "sellable asset" in the Heneghan mould ie: someone who we've recruited and there is apparently active interest around.

 

I could see us touting Bowman's name around the sort of level that a striker with 81 goals in 253 games at National League level might be tempting to but beyond that I'd imagine we're pretty *shrug* about it. If he stays he stays, if someone's interested in chucking us a small fee to allow us to recoup what we paid and he's willing to move then great.

 

There are others around the squad I could imagine is being more active in trying to move on.

I think the chances of us finding someone to take Blyth off our hands are slim and that's why Bowman may be more likely to move on. Suspect that the degree of interest in Moult will also be a factor. Moving Bowman on and leaving us with Moult, Fisher and the pacey striker is one thing. But moving him on and selling Moult, leaving Fisher, a pacey striker and Blyth as your options is less appealing.

 

And I know if we sell Moult, we'd probably try and replace him but it's another deal to try and get done while Bowman is already here and may (I stress MAY) be able to contribute...