Scottish Premiership Motherwell V Ross County Sat 6 May 15:00

[Big Wispy Flossy]

Dont disagree with your first point, he did dig us out a hole last season. But from memory mcghee came in around November(?) and we were still looking at relegation until we hit a run of form around march.

 

Then look who he signed over the summer. Bowman, belic, clay, lucas, blyth, brill. All contributed the sum of fuck all. Only tait and mchugh worked out. Then let go of Kennedy and laing in January.... to sign jules. And Robinson is getting the blame here??

 

Edit: don't get me wrong I appreciate everything mcghee DID do for the club, particularly his first season with us. But he made some bad moves this time around and his time was up.

We could argue about who's to blame unti we are blue in the face but I'm sure we can all agree that the player recruitment has been poor (and that may be generous). No sucession planning whatsoever.

 

Whilst Robinson cannot be culpable in that, he can be considered culpable in not being able to get the best out the squad by grinding out results

[Ya Bezzer!]

Dont disagree with your first point, he did dig us out a hole last season. But from memory mcghee came in around November(?) and we were still looking at relegation until we hit a run of form around march.

 

Then look who he signed over the summer. Bowman, belic, clay, lucas, blyth, brill. All contributed the sum of fuck all. Only tait and mchugh worked out. Then let go of Kennedy and laing in January.... to sign jules. And Robinson is getting the blame here??

 

Edit: don't get me wrong I appreciate everything mcghee DID do for the club, particularly his first season with us. But he made some bad moves this time around and his time was up.

 

I agree our signings have been terrible but they were terrible before McGhee came in.

 

I'd suggest that at the very least our transfer policy is being steered in a certain direction and while the manager might have the final, I doubt, for example, that McGhee identified and lobbied to sign players like Bowman, Lucas or Frear.

 

I don't know but it certainly looks like we have relationships with various scouts and agents rather than managers identifying players and then signing them.

[Kmcalpin]

Whilst Robinson cannot be culpable in that, he can be considered culpable in not being able to get the best out the squad by grinding out results

Exactly. Had we lost our last 2 home games and been unlucky or been well beaten by far better sides or really played well then you couldn't fault Robinson. However, as poor as the current team is, he simply isn't getting the best out of them. Take the likes of Moult, Cadden, MacDonald, Frear, and to a lesser extent McHugh. All decent players who simply aren't performing to their best.

[Andy_P]

 

I agree our signings have been terrible but they were terrible before McGhee came in.

 

I'd suggest that at the very least our transfer policy is being steered in a certain direction and while the manager might have the final, I doubt, for example, that McGhee identified and lobbied to sign players like Bowman, Lucas or Frear.

 

I don't know but it certainly looks like we have relationships with various scouts and agents rather than managers identifying players and then signing them.

 

I think there is no question whatsoever that the transfer policy is steered towards the English lower leagues/non-leagues for it is the English market that the club seek to sell them back to.

 

I'd suggest though that the relationship we have is more likely to be with the Head of Recruitment who is, or at least was, Martin Foyle who significantly is based in England as was his predecessor. Who he's has relationships with is of course another matter entirely.

 

Personally I have no real objection to looking to that seam as we seek to improve the team - in tandem with the introduction of our youths to the first team of course. Where it does become difficult to justify is if other avenues for player recruitment are being neglected as a consequence and not least when the hit rate from England is very much hit and miss.

[Wellfan1984]

Hughes should've been the man whether he had just joined Raith or not, it was a no brainer!

Sure Raith are saying the exact same thing, wishing he would have left them for us.

[Shaka]

Aye, great post ? More or less saying Everything is broken and I won't be back....definitely a great "supporter" , if it's broken , how do we fix it?

Yesterday was a hard watch, I don't think it's lack if effort , just not got enough, we don't have great players , we need to just try and get over the line this year, then we can look at things.

Here we go, Im a better supporter than you

[Andy_P]

This "supporter" is a former Claret and Amber club member,

 

Oh wow. What a happy diversion you've sparked with that one! Fond fond memories of those few years in the Claret and Amber Club.

 

I remember seeing the advert in the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser..."Motherwell FC invite the youth of Lanarkshire to join their Claret and Amber Club" in an Airdrie paper. I loved that!

 

I remember my sister and I being one of the first to sign up and Bobby Jenks giving us our membership pack from the portacabin that served as our club shop in those days. Into the enclosure in front of the Main Stand for a quid every home game.

 

I was absolutely devastated when I was too old for it!

 

Happy happy days though.

[Shaka]

I loved that. I remember I was terrified at my first ever game cause I thought the front enclosure was for the C&A club members only and the adults werent allowed in (I was only 5 or 6 at the time lol). Thought I was the dogs danglies wi my wee Amber members plastic wallet thing tho

[Jay]

The football manager recruitment database is pish. Were shopping in areas that make the bargain basement wince. Paying transfer fees for Johnson then thinking "it worked once so why not?" and paying fees for the likes of Frear and Bowman is ludicrous. All the while we ignore our own leagues. When Dundee signed Scott Bain, Greg Stewart or Kane Hemmings,we were a more successful club with potentially more upside and able to pay at least what they were, why werent we in there? And there are dozens more who have come from the lower scottish leagues, Andy Robertson lived and played 6 or 7 miles from Fir Park, how did we not know about him or scout him? And anyway why have that database if we have a manager with overall control of transfers? That kind of stuff is for Scouts and Directors of Football to identify and sign targets,not to make a list of guys that are apparently suitable then ask permission from a glorified coach with an ego if we can sign them.

 

It's really hard to argue with that.

 

I have absolutely zero problems with us casting an eye over the English non-leagues in the hope that we can identify a Johnson or a Moult before anybody else, and bring them to Fir Park on a promise of a move to a higher level back in England a year or two later. But our transfer activity in the last couple of seasons has suggested that this is about 90% of our recruitment approach, and it's clearly not working.

 

A club like ours should be focusing on bringing through our Academy players and reinforcing the squad with solid SPL players who will "do a job" and keep us in the division. Then feel free to add to that with the odd English non-league player whose main role is to make us a profit in a season or two, if that luxury exists. Instead, we appear to be completely committed to the English non/lower-league player-for-profit project at the expense of a strong, balanced side that is able to compete in the short-term, and this season might be the one that sees us relegated as a result.

[steelman1991]

Here we go, Im a better supporter than you

 

This "supporter" is a former Claret and Amber club member,season ticket holder and have followed us through highs and lows including in Europe! I dont feel I am any better than any other Well fan but I feel I maybe do know what Im talking about ...... a bit. And I never said I wouldnt be back. I said its a mess and if we dont fix it I may not get the choice of attending Motherwell games in the future as if we get relegated, we may freefall and cease to exist

 

Read my post again! And read other posts I made last nite as well come to think of it. I suggested entirely where we can fix our issues.

 

We need to clear the decks and "reboot" essentially. Instead of spending the little cash we have on vanity projects with third party media companies and trendy Fan Engagement officers, ensure were doing the basics right! Give clear and concise advice at the ticket office,train the staff and make sure they all know EXACTLY what offers we run and when. Get coaches who can actually coach,not jobs for the boys! Guys like Faddy should not be taking training while the Manager sits at home drinking lattes in Brighton,he should be learning from said experienced coach,and others.

 

The football manager recruitment database is pish. Were shopping in areas that make the bargain basement wince. Paying transfer fees for Johnson then thinking "it worked once so why not?" and paying fees for the likes of Frear and Bowman is ludicrous. All the while we ignore our own leagues. When Dundee signed Scott Bain, Greg Stewart or Kane Hemmings,we were a more successful club with potentially more upside and able to pay at least what they were, why werent we in there? And there are dozens more who have come from the lower scottish leagues, Andy Robertson lived and played 6 or 7 miles from Fir Park, how did we not know about him or scout him? And anyway why have that database if we have a manager with overall control of transfers? That kind of stuff is for Scouts and Directors of Football to identify and sign targets,not to make a list of guys that are apparently suitable then ask permission from a glorified coach with an ego if we can sign them.

 

The players too. Too many old boys getting contracts they dont deserve and now managers tinkering with formations and players so much the guys,a lot of whom are genuinely limited or inexperienced footballers, have no fucking idea what they are doing. Plus we flood our squad with non league dross and then wonder why we have no passion? These guys are hoping to show up well enough against Rangers & Celtic and on TV that they get themselves a nice wage increase when tbeir contract with us ends. They dont give 2 fucks about Motherwell.

 

We arent dead yet, but our SPL existance is on life support, and we need something drastic to make sure our issues do not turn terminal

 

Compete with Dundee - FFS we can't even compete with the Falkirk's of this world - time to retire the X-Box and Football Manager, if you think that's the pond we fish in. We lost out on 2 targets last year - El Bakhtaoui and the big striker from East Fife who gave us a torrid time in the League Cup, to Dundee and Falkirk - because we couldn't match their terms - FALKIRK FFS.

 

Our days of competing for decent players in home waters are long gone.

 

And as much as I enjoy watching the U20 highlights I see little to suggest that there is a McCarthy, McArthur, or similar about to burst through - and please don't 'raise me' Cadden - the one-trick pony, yet another from the long line of Shaun Fagan, Marc Fitzpatrick production line. Our club is festering to a slow painful death and it saddens me to watch it. The players and fans just seemed resigned to our fate and it was awful to watch and be a part of.

 

Anyway rant over and no offence meant to you by the post - just needed to vent.

[Al B]

We didn't miss out because they offered terms we couldn't match, they offered terms we didn't feel the players were worth. That's nowhere near the same thing.

 

I completely agree with the general point with a slight tweak. I don't think the transfer model is poor, I've come to believe that the method is completely sound, but it only works if the people using it can tell the difference between someone who is effective at the level they are spotted, and someone who has the tools to be effective at a higher level. I don't think we have that.

 

As an example take two conference strikers, one who has scored 25 goals and one who has scored 15 goals. I genuinely think we'd stop at that and be after the first guy...without actually looking into it any deeper. For the model to be a success we have to be overlooking the guy with 25 goals from inside the 6 yard box, in favour of the guy with 15 goals who has a much better reading of the game, a calmness and awareness and maybe a handful of assists.

 

I maybe completely 100% wrong, but for me to accept I am, someone would have some job trying to convince me what they saw and were looking for, by using Fletcher, Blyth, and Bowman as examples.

[steelman1991]

We didn't miss out because they offered terms we couldn't match, they offered terms we didn't feel the players were worth. That's nowhere near the same thing.

 

Yes we did, from a member of the scouting team - we wanted them, but couldn't match the terms. I doubt we offer what we think a player might be worth, more what we can afford - and your right - nowhere near the same thing.

 

Agree 100% with the rest of your post.

[capt_oats]

We didn't miss out because they offered terms we couldn't match, they offered terms we didn't feel the players were worth. That's nowhere near the same thing.

 

I completely agree with the general point with a slight tweak. I don't think the transfer model is poor, I've come to believe that the method is completely sound, but it only works if the people using it can tell the difference between someone who is effective at the level they are spotted, and someone who has the tools to be effective at a higher level. I don't think we have that.

 

As an example take two conference strikers, one who has scored 25 goals and one who has scored 15 goals. I genuinely think we'd stop at that and be after the first guy...without actually looking into it any deeper. For the model to be a success we have to be overlooking the guy with 25 goals from inside the 6 yard box, in favour of the guy with 15 goals who has a much better reading of the game, a calmness and awareness and maybe a handful of assists.

 

I maybe completely 100% wrong, but for me to accept that then someone would have some job trying to convince me what they saw and were looking for, by using Fletcher, Blyth, and Bowman as examples.

 

^^^^ This. There's a huge difference between not feeling they're worth the money they want and not being able to afford them.

 

In the case of El Bahktaoui, IIRC McGhee indicated that based on the terms he was after it was an either/or between him and McDonald we couldn't afford both.

 

El Bahktaoui has scored 3 goals for Dundee and has struggled to get in their team. McDonald is our 2nd top scorer with 11. I know which I'd rather have spent the money on.

 

Austin had a good game for East Fife against us granted. He's scored 7 goals for Falkirk this season. To put that into a bit of context John Sutton and Ross Forbes have scored more than him.

[ONeils40yarder]

Saturdays defeat was just deflating...uninspiring on so many levels, we looked bereft of ideas, our shape was baffling, some players looked uninterested.

 

Prior to the match, I was pretty happy with the starting line-up, it looked to me like Robinson had packed in the daft formations, with Ainsworth coming in for Bowman and fair play to him for doing the decent thing and taking Samson out of the firing line by replacing him with the young keeper. I assumed that the starting line-up would have meant a straight 4-4-2, with Ainsworth playing right-mid and Cadden playing right-back, and thats the way it appeared to start with. I get that Caddens strength is on the front foot and he isnt ideally suited to right-back, but with a competent right midfielder in front of him, I'd expect a player of his ability to be able to play there comfortably for 90mins...thats why I was baffled when Ainsworth was instructed to move in behind the strikers, leaving Cadden completely exposed (not for the 1st time recently) down that right-side. This to me is our biggest problem...tinkering with idiotic tactics. It rendered us ineffective down the right hand-side, while Ainsworth done nothing other than clutter up the middle of the park.

 

For what its worth, I thought the back 4, as a defensive unit worked pretty well, Heneghan for example looked more comfortable as a 4 than he has done as a 3. Until big Jules came on...to be fair to him, he actually played OK, that monumental error apart, he won a few headers and made at least one tremendous tackle, but what was going through his head when he decided to keep the ball in play, when everyone in the stadium assumed we'd be taking a by-kick AND then compound matters by playing the ball back into his own box was stuff that a boys club player wouldn't have done, I firmly believe that. I see that a few folk are trying to cast some of the blame to some of the other players who could have potentially done a bit better, but I genuinely believe they were caught off guard...you just need to look at McHughs reaction to getting the ball played back to him...he genuinely wasnt expecting it. It was one of those moments where I just laughed, anyone sitting around me in the East Stand could have mistaken me for someone that didn't care, because I laughed and laughed at that moment and again everytime I thought about it...if you didn't laugh, you'd greet.

 

I said before the match that the central midfield concerned me greatly, because I just don't think we have a combination from any of Lasley, Campbell, Lucas, Clay and Pearson that is good enough at this level, and so it was proved...Campbell will be a decent player for us, but he and Lasley dont seem to be gelling...the problem is, we have no other option other than McHugh, who is marshalling the defence reasonably well, and taking him from there would mean starting Jules. Frear, again tried hard and played some delightful balls across the 6-yard box, but he looks very low in self-confidence.

 

As for the strikers, McDonald looked jaded and Moult clearly wasnt fit, otherwise at least one of Frears crosses would have been buried.

 

The most worrying thing, and others have already mentioned it, is how we looked dead and buried the moment Ross County scored, collectively the management, the players and the fans seemed to give up and thats a damning indictment on everyone, but the management team in particular whose job it is to instill fight and hunger in their players.

[Jay]

For what its worth, I thought the back 4, as a defensive unit worked pretty well, Heneghan for example looked more comfortable as a 4 than he has done as a 3. Until big Jules came on...to be fair to him, he actually played OK, that monumental error apart, he won a few headers and made at least one tremendous tackle, but what was going through his head when he decided to keep the ball in play, when everyone in the stadium assumed we'd be taking a by-kick AND then compound matters by playing the ball back into his own box was stuff that a boys club player wouldn't have done, I firmly believe that. I see that a few folk are trying to cast some of the blame to some of the other players who could have potentially done a bit better, but I genuinely believe they were caught off guard...you just need to look at McHughs reaction to getting the ball played back to him...he genuinely wasnt expecting it. It was one of those moments where I just laughed, anyone sitting around me in the East Stand could have mistaken me for someone that didn't care, because I laughed and laughed at that moment and again everytime I thought about it...if you didn't laugh, you'd greet.

 

Absolutely this.

 

I understand the view that footballers should be 100% focused and on their toes ready to respond to any situation, but they're also human and there wasn't a human being inside Fir Park on Saturday who could have foreseen Jules doing easily the worst thing I have ever seen from a Motherwell player. As much as the other defenders perhaps could have been a bit better at responding, I fully understand their panic at being caught out completely by it.

 

I don't think you can even call it a "mistake" - mistakes are misjudging the flight of the ball, taking a terrible touch, under hitting a pass, mistiming a tackle etc - mistakes are doing logical things poorly. What Zak Jules did on Saturday isn't even worthy of being called a mistake.

[Kmcalpin]

 

Yes we did, from a member of the scouting team - we wanted them, but couldn't match the terms. I doubt we offer what we think a player might be worth, more what we can afford - and your right - nowhere near the same thing.

 

Agree 100% with the rest of your post.

Our overall budget and indeed the playing budget is bigger than those of both clubs. Now if both sides of the argument are to be believed then the only plausible answer is that better terms mean either a longer contract or that these teams are willing to fork out a fortune, relatively speaking, to secure one player, who is then way, way above their average salaries.

 

I tend to go with the Captain though on this. Each player we look at has a notional value which our club attaches to him, with a bit of flexibility. However they are not so good that the club will fork out way above their valuation.

[rinkydink]

 

Absolutely this.

 

I understand the view that footballers should be 100% focused and on their toes ready to respond to any situation, but they're also human and there wasn't a human being inside Fir Park on Saturday who could have foreseen Jules doing easily the worst thing I have ever seen from a Motherwell player. As much as the other defenders perhaps could have been a bit better at responding, I fully understand their panic at being caught out completely by it.

 

I don't think you can even call it a "mistake" - mistakes are misjudging the flight of the ball, taking a terrible touch, under hitting a pass, mistiming a tackle etc - mistakes are doing logical things poorly. What Zak Jules did on Saturday isn't even worthy of being called a mistake.

It ranks high alongside Stevie Woods' calamity vs Rangers in the cup many moons ago for the worst thing I have ever seen from a Motherwell player.

[Jay]

It ranks high alongside Stevie Woods' calamity vs Rangers in the cup many moons ago for the worst thing I have ever seen from a Motherwell player.

 

Absolutely. I mentioned that one earlier when discussing it with a few folk, the only one I can think of that comes close. That said, I think the fact that Woods just seemed to try and pass the ball to a ghost, whereas Jules made the original shocking decision to stop the ball and then, when faced with the obvious next step of putting it out the park, still then chose to inexplicably pass the ball inside results in the bold Zak's fuck up trumping Woods for me.

[rinkydink]

 

Absolutely. I mentioned that one earlier when discussing it with a few folk, the only one I can think of that comes close. That said, I think the fact that Woods just seemed to try and pass the ball to a ghost, whereas Jules made the original shocking decision to stop the ball and then, when faced with the obvious next step of putting it out the park, still then chose to inexplicably pass the ball inside results in the bold Zak's fuck up trumping Woods for me.

That is a compelling argument - take a bow big Zak.

[milo]

These past few posts have made me chuckle!

 

To think we might have witnessed the single worst thing a Motherwell player has ever done on the pitch! If you didn't laugh you'd cry.

 

What a time to live.

[1987motherwellfc]

Seen Mchugh , Blyth and Griffiths sat outside costa at 2 pm slurping on big fattening frappe drinks. Although none of them are to blame as much for the shite performances but if I was the manager I would have them all in working until six , n if I was part of the shittest Motherwell team in 30 year I wouldn't show my face down the town centre.

[ropy]

Was this on Saturday?

[1987motherwellfc]

Haha they would well have been sat in there at 3 on Saturday

[Tweed]

I'd like to raise Jay a Martyn Corrigan at Hampden.

 

I think we are playing better now than we were the last few weeks under McGhee. We fizzed some number of balls into the box on Saturday, more of them were good than not as well but Moult clearly wasn't fit. Not sure why we didn't put Bowman on to play right up top or give Faddy 20 minutes, throwing Craig Clay (who himself did nothing wrong) to salvage it at 0-1 just seemed a futile nothing change.

 

I'm hoping on Saturday, Hamilton will attack a bit more and if we can continue to play with a bit more bite they'll leave us some room and we may score, our away form has been better generally and I think we can go here and win.

[wunderwell]

I'll raise this one by Meldrum.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/6645251.stm

Struggling for outfield mistakes like Jules though.

Corrigan was a good shout had wiped that nicely from my mind.