League Cup 2017'18 Next: Celtic F (Hampden) 26/11/17 15:00

[Big Wispy Flossy]

20 odd young lads trying to generate an atmosphere surrounded by 50k empty seats wasn't going to happen though.

 

They should maybe have tried starting a boo,it might have got people joining in.

Need to be quick these days to get a half time boo copyrighted

[Well Well]

It sounds like what you are saying is that we started like a team filled with new players and still in pre-season training.

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, anybody who expected anything more than that in mid-July either knows nothing about the game or is just looking for any reason to complain.

 

If you feel the need to boo that, you need a reality check.

No thats what you think..not what I am saying at all. I do expect a much better, more professional approach and application to their play by professional footballers against amateurs, rusty, preseason or not. If you need to comment on the booing then it came from the majority of fans, give them a hard time for turning up and expecting professionals to actually try and look interested preseason or not. As such we seen that application in the 2nd half which shows that they can apply it when they want to

[joewarkfanclub]

Having been at Barrow I was pleasantly surprised by the performance and result today.

 

We started brightly, got a good goal and knocked the ball around nicely enough without being overly threatening.

 

So we shat the nest with another defensive lapse and the rest of the first have was poor.

 

However, we did turn it around, played some nice stuff, scored some really nice goals.

 

I accept it was only Queens Park, and this group of players has a long way to go before they convince anyone, but it was a decent start.

[stuwell]

Any highlights up yet?

[Gadgey]

I do find this forum entertaining.

 

Reading this thread, I have learned that booing can be motivational, professional footballers must run at maximum capacity at all times or they are failing as professionals (even in the knowledge that by playing a possession game against an amateur/inferior team there will be pay off in the final quarter of a game) and that playing 3 at the back is just fucking evil!!!!

 

It's easy to focus on the negatives and being honest, there were several there for all to see.

 

The first half was indeed poor, and with such a densely populated midfield, it was frustrating to see so many (often aimless) long balls. I would have much preferred to see the ball being played on the deck on a big surface like hampden. It probably would still have been pretty ugly to watch when trying to penetrate a parked bus but it would've given us all a better look at the new signings and less reason for criticism (though I suspect there will always be those who find something).

 

That said, when done well long balls from McHugh and Kipre, brought good goals.

 

I thought Carson looked good when asked and Kipre looks like he may be a grower. I've never been a fan of Big Ben and today did nothing to change that.

 

It's great to see Bowman get so many goals so early on. I liked him for his endeavour last season. It was clear nothing was working for him. He looks like a different player now and I hope the big man continues to grow.

 

It will be interesting in the fullness of time to see if 3 at the back is what Robbo wants. Logically, if he's ever going to do it it is now with a new squad and new beginnings.

 

If done well, it can work really well and is becoming increasingly popular in modern football. In Scotland, If it is to be his default formation, I suspect that it will be the catalyst for Robinsons ultimate success or failure.

[ropy]

I wonder if Fisher had got the balls played through that Bowman did we would be praising him today, he certainly shaped to make the runs. Hopefully he gets another chance to break his duck and settle in.

[MelvinBragg]

I wonder if Fisher had got the balls played through that Bowman did we would be praising him today, he certainly shaped to make the runs. Hopefully he gets another chance to break his duck and settle in.

Pretty sure that Fisher will score goals but Bowman certainly making a case for being first choice at the moment. He's at least making a mockery of those who lumped him in with Blyth as dead wood to be cast aside. I actually thought we might move him on simply on the basis that there may be more clubs interested in him than Blyth. But if we can get shot of Blyth somehow due to his behaviour on holiday and we see Moult move on, Bowman and Fisher as our two options at number nine doesn't horrify me.

 

Interesting for me from yesterday's lineup. No Clay on the bench, instead Rose and Gordon. No Campbell either. If you figure that Campbell may have jumped Clay in the queue then Clay is now at least sixth choice for a midfield spot behind two teenagers. Robinson surely trying to move him on on that basis...

[star sail]

It sounds like what you are saying is that we started like a team filled with new players and still in pre-season training.

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, anybody who expected anything more than that in mid-July either knows nothing about the game or is just looking for any reason to complain.

 

If you feel the need to boo that, you need a reality check.

 

This is always a statement I find very interesting. As a layman, I have been guilty over the years at looking at poor performances and poor results in very simple terms. I would be prone to making a comment very similar to the one made by Well Well above when having watched an apparent lacklustre first half resulting in a 1-1 draw and an energetic second half resulting in a 4-0 win, he puts it down simply to a lack of commitment and effort in the first half.

 

People that know more about the game will point out that this view is far too simplistic and that there are many more forces at play.

 

For those that do have a better understanding, I have a couple of questions that would help me understand the reasons for a particular performance at this time of year:

 

1) Given that it was a team of new players still in the process of pre season training throughout the full 90 minutes, what did make the difference yesterday between the first half and second half, if not just simply effort and application?

 

2) My background is in athletics. As a rule of thumb, an athlete that has had a lay off due to rest, illness or injury for three weeks should expect to train for the same length of time (i.e 3 weeks) before returning to pre lay off fitness and performance levels. What is the rule of thumb for professional football players?

 

3) Mothewell have been guilty in the past of what would appear to be lacklustre performances during the competitive season. I have seen poor performances (at some point)in almost every month of the calander year. How can we be confident that a poor performance in the first half yesterday was simply down to that fact that it is pre-season and mid July?

 

4) Other European teams seem to be able to handle the constraints of pre-season better than Scottish teams and hence can progress in European competition when Scottish teams struggle to do so. I know that some, but far from all start there competitive season earlier than we do. How can these teams get up and running quicker than Scottish teams?

[Gadgey]

 

This is always a statement I find very interesting. As a layman, I have been guilty over the years at looking at poor performances and poor results in very simple terms. I would be prone to making a comment very similar to the one made by Well Well above when having watched an apparent lacklustre first half resulting in a 1-1 draw and an energetic second half resulting in a 4-0 win, he puts it down simply to a lack of commitment and effort in the first half.

 

People that know more about the game will point out that this view is far too simplistic and that there are many more forces at play.

 

For those that do have a better understanding, I have a couple of questions that would help me understand the reasons for a particular performance at this time of year:

 

1) Given that it was a team of new players still in the process of pre season training throughout the full 90 minutes, what did make the difference yesterday between the first half and second half, if not just simply effort and application?

 

2) My background is in athletics. As a rule of thumb, an athlete that has had a lay off due to rest, illness or injury for three weeks should expect to train for the same length of time (i.e 3 weeks) before returning to pre lay off fitness and performance levels. What is the rule of thumb for professional football players?

 

3) Mothewell have been guilty in the past of what would appear to be lacklustre performances during the competitive season. I have seen poor performances (at some point)in almost every month of the calander year. How can we be confident that a poor performance in the first half yesterday was simply down to that fact that it is pre-season and mid July?

 

4) Other European teams seem to be able to handle the constraints of pre-season better than Scottish teams and hence can progress in European competition when Scottish teams struggle to do so. I know that some, but far from all start there competitive season earlier than we do. How can these teams get up and running quicker than Scottish teams?

Great post.

 

By no means your intended target audience, i do have a bit of experience of playing semi-pro for a couple of years. I don't think that makes me more knowledgeable, I can only talk from experience and as a fan like everyone else. I'll have a stab:

 

1. Robinson summed it up well that they weren't sharp enough on some of the basics and there wasn't the expected consistent application to ensure at the very least the basics were done. This can go some way to answering no 3 also.

 

The other thing for me was that we always knew that QP would tire. By maintaining steady momentum will in essence tire the opposition (who have to work hard off the ball) and exploit gaps. The old firm have done it to us for years.

 

2. To be honest, that's what I was largely used to after the customary pre season beasting. I guess the added complexity here is the influx of new faces and the expected delay of team cohesion.

 

3. I think we all know the answer to that. We just can't.

 

4. Isn't this the much lamented Scottish football culture question? Honestly don't know for the bigger picture. In truth though, in the context described, we are the QP against the Panathanaicos or Steaua Bucharest.

 

Good questions for genuine debate though.

[star sail]

Great post.

 

By no means your intended target audience, i do have a bit of experience of playing semi-pro for a couple of years. I don't think that makes me more knowledgeable, I can only talk from experience and as a fan like everyone else. I'll have a stab:

 

1. Robinson summed it up well that they weren't sharp enough on some of the basics and there wasn't the expected consistent application to ensure at the very least the basics were done. This can go some way to answering no 3 also.

 

The other thing for me was that we always knew that QP would tire. By maintaining steady momentum will in essence tire the opposition (who have to work hard off the ball) and exploit gaps.

 

2. To be honest, that's what I was largely used to after the customary pre season beasting. I guess the added complexity here is the influx of new faces and the expected delay of team cohesion.

 

3. I think we all know the answer to that. We just can't.

 

4. Isn't this the much lamented Scottish football culture question? Honestly don't know.

 

Good questions for genuine debate though.

Semi-pro is more that good enough for me. Thanks for the reply.

[Londonwell]

OMG..!! .I will make it simple for you....it was the first half PERFORMANCE I am talking about..If we start like this in the league as we have been guilty of before we will not get a comfortable win...we were playing amateurs ffs. A premiership team would have punished us severely for that first half performance remember Dundee, Aberdeen last season..!!

You're a roaster.

[weeyin]

Just to put things into perspective from yesterday. Our Premiership rival's results were:

 

 

Killie lost to League One opposition

Hibs had a comfortable win against League Two opposition

Accies had to rely on two late goals to beat Lowland League opposition

Partick Thistle drew against League One opposition and then lost the penalty shootout.

 

They are all in pre-season too, so I'm not surprised by their struggles, but it makes our 5 - 1 win look pretty good in comparison.

[Well Well]

 

This is always a statement I find very interesting. As a layman, I have been guilty over the years at looking at poor performances and poor results in very simple terms. I would be prone to making a comment very similar to the one made by Well Well above when having watched an apparent lacklustre first half resulting in a 1-1 draw and an energetic second half resulting in a 4-0 win, he puts it down simply to a lack of commitment and effort in the first half.

 

People that know more about the game will point out that this view is far too simplistic and that there are many more forces at play.

 

For those that do have a better understanding, I have a couple of questions that would help me understand the reasons for a particular performance at this time of year:

 

1) Given that it was a team of new players still in the process of pre season training throughout the full 90 minutes, what did make the difference yesterday between the first half and second half, if not just simply effort and application?

 

2) My background is in athletics. As a rule of thumb, an athlete that has had a lay off due to rest, illness or injury for three weeks should expect to train for the same length of time (i.e 3 weeks) before returning to pre lay off fitness and performance levels. What is the rule of thumb for professional football players?

 

3) Mothewell have been guilty in the past of what would appear to be lacklustre performances during the competitive season. I have seen poor performances (at some point)in almost every month of the calander year. How can we be confident that a poor performance in the first half yesterday was simply down to that fact that it is pre-season and mid July?

 

4) Other European teams seem to be able to handle the constraints of pre-season better than Scottish teams and hence can progress in European competition when Scottish teams struggle to do so. I know that some, but far from all start there competitive season earlier than we do. How can these teams get up and running quicker than Scottish teams?

Thank you very much for a thorough explanantion of what may have occurred yesterday. unlike some who just think we should just accept the same old 'its preseason' explanantion which I have always found to be crap especially when one of the teams we played had the same amount of new faces but beat us quite comfortably last week

[Well Well]

You're a roaster.

Ahh such thorough, incisive comment from a guy with 55 posts in the last 5 years...glad you managed to pull all your brain cells together to form the sentence even if you probably got help to do it and didn't understand what it meant

[mjw]

Thank you very much for a thorough explanantion of what may have occurred yesterday.

It was a comfortable win,wasn't it?

[Londonwell]

Ahh such thorough, incisive comment from a guy with 55 posts in the last 5 years...glad you managed to pull all your brain cells together to form the sentence even if you probably got help to do it and didn't understand what it meant

We won 5-1 mate.

[Tamwell]

People who moan after we win 5-1 should get banned.

[Well Well]

I couldnt give a damn about the score, its the performance, its like dejavu. Unbelievable how complacent we get as a support. After warnings of complacent play in the first half of games last season against Dundee and Aberdeen you all just accept it as normal. I give up. Have it your way I will however no doubt mention this again throughout the season when we do this over and over again. Doubt we can blame preseason rustiness again. Bring on a much sterner test against Morton. I will be there again to support the team as usual

[Londonwell]

I couldnt give a damn about the score, its the performance, its like dejavu. Unbelievable how complacent we get as a support. After warnings of complacent play in the first half of games last season against Dundee and Aberdeen you all just accept it as normal. I give up. Have it your way I will however no doubt mention this again throughout the season when we do this over and over again. Doubt we can blame preseason rustiness again. Bring on a much sterner test against Morton. I will be there again to support the team as usual

5-1 mate.

[Wellfan1984]

The thing is we didn't even get out of 2nd gear to win 5-1. No one remember the last time we played QP? We were passed off the park - but still won 4-0.

 

Funny enough, we played Morton next in the cup and done them without much of a sweat.

[Pepper]

Well well has broken the golden rule of Steelmenonline - thou shalt not criticise in the wake of a victory.

 

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the many failings particularly in the first half. Goal aside it was pretty poor. We opted for the long ball far too early and the defending at times was reminiscent of last years shambles. So for that alone I can see why people might just want to bring it up.

 

I thought Tanner, even with a goal to his name, was murder. Far too easily pushed off the ball and otherwise pretty anonymous. Heneghan, at times, looked like the player none of us could believe anyone would pay a penny for.

 

Second half, we dominated possession but Queens defending turned into a total shambles as they tired badly. We are going to have to be far more creative if we are going to break down anyone of a decent standard, and there's the worry.

 

On to the positives, Carl McHugh was excellent, Cadden looked more like his old self and Bowman continues to confound his critics. Carson, Bigi and Kipre out of the new players looked decent.

[Kmcalpin]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the many failings particularly in the first half.

Nothing wrong with that at all, providing any criticism is commensurate with the overall performance and result. I would temper criticism with the fact that we want to bed in new players and perhaps experiment a little to find out what works and what doesn't before the league starts. It could be that Robbo intends to play that way in all away games this year and wants to get the players used to that system and it just so happened that our first away game was against Queens Park. I know managers have a thin line to tread in balancing motivating players with constructive criticism but I would be very concerned if our manager couldn't find fault with some aspect of our game irrespective of the result.

[Spiderpig]

I couldnt give a damn about the score, its the performance, its like dejavu. Unbelievable how complacent we get as a support. After warnings of complacent play in the first half of games last season against Dundee and Aberdeen you all just accept it as normal. I give up. Have it your way I will however no doubt mention this again throughout the season when we do this over and over again. Doubt we can blame preseason rustiness again. Bring on a much sterner test against Morton. I will be there again to support the team as usual

Give it a rest FFS, and stop talking pish most fans would take a dodgy 1st half performance and a 5-1 final score any day of the week.

[mjw]

I couldnt give a damn about the score, its the performance

What?

[mjw]

Well well has broken the golden rule of Steelmenonline - thou shalt not criticise in the wake of a victory.

 

 

Nice try.

No one who seen that game will say the first half was good enough.

The posts aren't even about criticising after a victory but booing the team off at half time when they were drawing.