'Wellfan 2k7 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Well that's a grand we won't get back. (Or however much it costs these days...) Having watched it a few times, I think we could possibly win this. Its a 50/50 situation where two bodies come together- He is just chasing the ball down. There is no malice here. No deliberate attempted on the player. I think under the uodated rules is could potentially be deemed a yellow card offence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 For it to be a red card it has to be deemed deliberate I think he tried to use his body to get in front of player but it's hard to prove he deliberately fouled him . I'm not saying was not a penalty but if be can prove he was genuinely trying to get ball then it's not a red . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 For it to be a red card it has to be deemed deliberate I think he tried to use his body to get in front of player but it's hard to prove he deliberately fouled him . I'm not saying was not a penalty but if be can prove he was genuinely trying to get ball then it's not a red . Good post. I wasn't at the game and didn't have a front seat view. Looking back at the highlights its unclear what happened - yes there was a collision of course and Dunne seemed to come in from behind. However the picture just isn't clear enough to convince me either way. As you say there has to be intent and the appeals committee will have to be convinced of Dunne's intentions - not easy I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 For it to be a red card it has to be deemed deliberate I think he tried to use his body to get in front of player but it's hard to prove he deliberately fouled him . I'm not saying was not a penalty but if be can prove he was genuinely trying to get ball then it's not a red . The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below) serious foul play spitting at an opponent or any other person violent conduct using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures receiving a second caution in the same match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below) serious foul play spitting at an opponent or any other person violent conduct using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures receiving a second caution in the same match The rules and the interpretation of them change so often these days (do you know you can make a fourth sub in extra time?!?!?) that I've kind of given up trying to work out what's right or wrong in the eyes of the SFA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 If there's a chance we can get him back for the Aberdeen game then we have to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below) serious foul play spitting at an opponent or any other person violent conduct using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures receiving a second caution in the same match I think they've updated that rule? Or certainly advised a different interpretation. They are trying to stop the situation where defenders and particularly goalkeepers are getting sent off when they make a genuine attempt for the ball. So only the more cynical "last man" challenges should result in a red card. Given some of the appeals they upheld last season you'd say he'll get downgraded to a yellow, but who knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I think they've updated that rule? Or certainly advised a different interpretation. They are trying to stop the situation where defenders and particularly goalkeepers are getting sent off when they make a genuine attempt for the ball. So only the more cynical "last man" challenges should result in a red card. Given some of the appeals they upheld last season you'd say he'll get downgraded to a yellow, but who knows? It was amended last year: The previous 'triple-punishment' law meant a player who denied a goal-scoring opportunity in the box was automatically red-carded and handed a suspension, as well as giving away a penalty. The law has now been changed so players committing accidental fouls that deny goal-scoring opportunities in the penalty area will not be automatically sent off, with a yellow card sufficient punishment. Actual amendment is "When a denial of a goalscoring opportunity offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goalscoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (e.g. a yellow card) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, when the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball, the player will be sent off." So we must be appealing that he genuinely tried to play the ball and therefore should have only got a yellow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 It was amended last year: The previous 'triple-punishment' law meant a player who denied a goal-scoring opportunity in the box was automatically red-carded and handed a suspension, as well as giving away a penalty. The law has now been changed so players committing accidental fouls that deny goal-scoring opportunities in the penalty area will not be automatically sent off, with a yellow card sufficient punishment. Actual amendment is "When a denial of a goalscoring opportunity offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goalscoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (e.g. a yellow card) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, when the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball, the player will be sent off." So we must be appealing that he genuinely tried to play the ball and therefore should have only got a yellow. Fair point. Still a weird and unbalanced ruling. The assumption that a penalty restores the goalscoring opportunity is flawed as many chances; such as in this case, was much more certain to produce a goal than a penalty kick is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I think he genuinely thought he could get to the ball, or at least block it, but the panel may be sceptical about whether that was actually possible without going through the player. Whatever the outcome it was some burst of pace from the big man to get there at all - if that had been Hammy he'd have got to the bye line just as they were kicking off for the restart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) Mark Reynolds in our classic at Aberdeen? Deliberate handball on the goal line, the ref played on rightly, goal scored but no red card? I'd like to see his explanation about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Mark Reynolds in our classic at Aberdeen? Deliberate handball on the goal line, the ref played on rightly, goal scored but no red card? I'd like to see his explanation about that. If Thompson had been in charge of that game Dave, he would have stopped play, and awarded the penalty, he seems to have issues with the advantage rule, oh and of course we would have missed the Pen as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Krivokapic is the obvious footballing centre-half that springs to mind. Big buff was more than just a centre half, he was a cracking footballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergi4 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Big buff was more than just a centre half, he was a cracking footballer. I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful! Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending. Was he not handy with a pair of scissors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful! Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending. Was he not handy with a pair of scissors? Certainly handy with the patter when Mark Hately told him he'd a Ferrari in his drive and asked buff what was in his drive, 'A ton of red chips' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Buff was a player. Never forget his 30 yarder to give us the lead at Ibrox. Some strike. Was easily the best CB in Scotland for 2 seasons. Was criminal he never got picked for the national team until his form had started to fade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Big buff was more than just a centre half, he was a cracking footballer. Didnae say he wisnae! I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful! Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending. Was he not handy with a pair of scissors? As fergi4 alludes to Buff was far from an overnight success at Fir Park, as he's stated himself on the podcast and at Q&A's. There was certainly a progression throughout his Motherwell career but the player we all remember when we think of Brian Martin is not the player of at that first season and a half filling across three or four positions, but the player who reached the heights he did having benefited from having the likes of excellent passers of the ball such as Lambert, Davies and of course Krivokapic alongside him. Not to say he wasn't a cracking footballer, but to me if you're talking about ball playing centre-halves Mio is the one that would come to my mind first. Buff was a player. Never forget his 30 yarder to give us the lead at Ibrox. Some strike. Was easily the best CB in Scotland for 2 seasons. Was criminal he never got picked for the national team until his form had started to fade. He was unfortunate and should have had more caps. I remember Brown contradicting himself in his actions when he often selected Brian for squads then didn't play him going between a "we know what he can do" approach when overlooking him in some games and then a "you don't have the experience" in others. Won't have been too many times in the last 30 or 40 years we'll have had three players in the same Scotland squad! I have fond memories of seeing him at Villa Park for Scotland v Holland at Euro '96 resplendent in one of his Scotland tops complete with Martin and whatever number it was emblazoned on the back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 On to Thursday, tough test, was the last QF against this lot the one with all the inflatable sheep in the crowd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Aye they were allowed to get their partners in for free in they away end if they pre booked a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Despite being Second in the league I don't really think Aberdeen have had a particuarly great start to the season tbh. They've yet to face either of the Old Firm, St Johnstone or Hibs and have had narrow victories against 3 or 4 teams you'd expect to be fighting relegation and drew 0-0 and 1-1 against Hearts and Killie teams that we beat pretty comfortably. No reason why we can't be dreaming of Hampden with a bit of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 We've managed to win some physical battles but this will be more of a test in that respect. Their forward line hasn't quite clicked yet despite some real potential. I'm expecting a difficult game which we can hopefully sneak - just need to get our first half performances up to the level of those in the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 2-2 FT, 3-3 AET, 5-4 to us on penalties! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Sure Hammell will come in for Dunne as suspended and sure Biwman and Moult up top so it's just how Robbo decides to set up the 5 across the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop91 Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 They're there for the taking. Had a look on there site and they don't seem very confident in winning. That'll do for me. 2-1 for the good guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 I may struggle to contain myself if Moult scores. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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