Wellfan1984 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Where are people getting the losing to a part time club from? Gateshead are a Full Time football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Care to elaborate? Not your post, the general meltdown and over analysis about Motherwell losing a nothing game arranged for fitness purposes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I think that actually backs up Weeyin's point to be fair. Seems to me all you're doing is pointing out that it wasn't just our players that didn't care about the score. These games are a set of bibs away from bibs v skins at the end of training. Robinson has even said in interviews they are purposely holding intensive training sessions before some of the games. That's to put the players into a position where their body is tired at the start of a game, pushing through fitness plateau's. The cardio equivalent of pre-exhausting a muscle in the weight room. You'd have to be mad to pre-exhaust a muscle and then get annoyed that you couldn't push the same amount of weight, the whole point is to get you into a position where you can't. I don't think Gateshead can be accused of not caring about the score. They won the game. It would be a concern if Motherwell did not care about the score. Your second point is a very good one because it changes the starting conditions of the game. If Motherwell were purposefully fatigued and Gateshead were fresh (assuming this was indeed the case) then that is a genuine reason as to why Motherwell might lose the game. The six points that Weeyin made do not come into this category because Gateshead are also going through a pre-season programme that presents them with the very same six problems. Hence my suggestion that they could be seen as excuses if they were to be used by Motherwell as reasons for defeat. No one is disputing the principles behind a pre-season training programme. I concede that I have lost this argument. I only hope that I have at least been able to explain the point that I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to have some concerns about a defeat to Gateshead given the backdrop of the lack of confidence in Scottish football at the moment. Had our contemporary's produced fine European victories over the last week or two and Scottish football was riding on the crest of a wave then yes, a defeat to Gateshead could be greeted with a shrug of the shoulders. The fact is however that the second biggest team in our league has just been put out of Europe by Luxembourg minnows and St Johnstone ( a team that has consistently outperformed us over the last few seasons) has also gone out of the competition at the first round, Scottish football is going through a crisis of confidence more than ever before. A defeat to a team like Gateshead does raise a few questions. Is the quality of player within the Motherwell squad any better than than the players in a team that play in the Vanarama National League? It is very easy to say that results at this stage of the season are of no importance and that performances are of no importance and maybe they are not, but it is not unreasonable for supporters on a football forum to raise a few concerns, particularly after a season when Motherwell struggled to stay in a league that is proving to be one of the poorest in Europe. I think what irk's me is the acceptance of mediocrity in this country from managers, players and fans alike. Football managers up and down Scotland are giving interviews like Robinson's on Saturday, explaining the latest defeat because it's only pre-season or it's too early in the season or it's too late in the season or the players are exhausted...............etc,etc. My favourite was a few seasons ago when Craig Brown was the manager. He gave as the primary reason why Motherwell were out of European football as a lack of match fitness(where have we heard this before). He then gave as the reason for a lacklustre defeat in September as the players being exhausted due to an early start to the season because of the teams involvement in European football. By his reasoning there must have been a small window of opportunity in late August where conditions were right to put in a performance. Maybe on the other hand he was just talking shite. The point I am making is that a team like Motherwell have to earn the right to be able to shrug of a defeat to a team like Gateshead. I don't think that this team are anywhere near earning that right, so it is not unreasonable for supporters to question the result or the performances. One of the football managers mantra's is that confidence is king. If this is true the results in pre season games matter. You've hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't a pre season defeat to Gateshead. It's the context of the defeat in the wider scale of things. Because Scottish football is without doubt is absolutely dreadful by any objective measure and Motherwell have consistently been poor even at the current level of quality. So when I put down £700 odd quid for a couple of season tickets and then go along to our first pre-season match and see a team signed from English lower leagues or even non leagues, most of them 6 foot plus, pumping high balls to a lone striker against part timers from the fourth tier of Scottish football, and not only that but actually being outplayed, what am I supposed to think? That's nothing to do with fitness or experimentation. It's a footballing mentality that's sub standard and should not be accepted. This is the conclusion I draw - Motherwell FC, 30 years in the Scottish Premier League, are being turned into Ebbsfleet United before our very eyes. The standard of player, the standard of manager, the tactics, the footballing mentality, the standard of professionalism. It's just not good enough for a top national league side and all the excuses and explanation in the world doesn't change that. I don't even particularly care about our league position next season. What I'm extremely concerned about is the standard of football. So keep telling yourself everything is alright, as another 200 fans drift away, then the season after that another 150, then the season after that another 90. It's not good enough - and if you think it is you are part of the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 What I think is it's pre season, with loads of new players, and we don't know how we will play yet come competitive league action given the differing teams sent out in our first 3 friendlies. Baraclough had us looking lovely in pre season knocking it about and well...that went great. Also 500 extra season tickets sold to date compared to last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Christ Almighty. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 So when I put down £700 odd quid for a couple of season tickets and then go along to our first pre-season match and see a team signed from English lower leagues or even non leagues, most of them 6 foot plus, pumping high balls to a lone striker against part timers from the fourth tier of Scottish football, and not only that but actually being outplayed, what am I supposed to think? Well, first of all, well done for buying 2 season tickets and supporting the club. Apart from growing our own lads, which we're doing at the moment, I don't care where we source our players from as long as they do the business - supporters of most teams think the same I'd warrant. In the modern athletic game the bigger the better, as long as they can play football. We have been a bit short of height in recent years, so its good to see Robbo address that deficiency. Pre season games are very hard to judge. Management will be trying our different tactics and formations. Going back a few years the MacLean brothers (Tommy & Jim), set up their teams to play played some pretty mind numbing stuff but the fans didn't care as long as they won. I don't like the long ball game and it may well be that we play differently this season I don't know, but if thats what it takes to succeed then so be it. We mustn't read too much into pre season games. Wait until say late September before we start to draw conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 You've hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't a pre season defeat to Gateshead. It's the context of the defeat in the wider scale of things. Because Scottish football is without doubt is absolutely dreadful by any objective measure and Motherwell have consistently been poor even at the current level of quality. So when I put down £700 odd quid for a couple of season tickets and then go along to our first pre-season match and see a team signed from English lower leagues or even non leagues, most of them 6 foot plus, pumping high balls to a lone striker against part timers from the fourth tier of Scottish football, and not only that but actually being outplayed, what am I supposed to think? That's nothing to do with fitness or experimentation. It's a footballing mentality that's sub standard and should not be accepted. This is the conclusion I draw - Motherwell FC, 30 years in the Scottish Premier League, are being turned into Ebbsfleet United before our very eyes. The standard of player, the standard of manager, the tactics, the footballing mentality, the standard of professionalism. It's just not good enough for a top national league side and all the excuses and explanation in the world doesn't change that. I don't even particularly care about our league position next season. What I'm extremely concerned about is the standard of football. So keep telling yourself everything is alright, as another 200 fans drift away, then the season after that another 150, then the season after that another 90. It's not good enough - and if you think it is you are part of the problem. What have you done with the real Ya Bezzer???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Strong team out tonight. Looks like our strongest line up, except Moult obviously. Carson, Tait, Heneghan, Kiprè, Hammell, McHugh, Bigirimana, Frear, Rose, Cadden and Fisher. Edit : no Dunne tonight, presume he must be nursing an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Carson Tait Heneghan Kipre Hammell Bigi McHugh Cadden Rose Frear Fisher Perhaps? Argument that that's our strongest 11 excluding Moult and arguing for Tanner and Bowman. McManus to play back up this early season perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Looks a very strong team tonight won't be far away from Saturdays line up imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Does look a strong team. I have concern though that it still lacks a make it happen/goal scorer style player that can make the difference in our league between challenging for top six or fighting relegation. If Moult moves on I'd say we will need 2 players of real quality up top to come in to have hopes of a top six finish this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Carson Tait Heneghan Kipre Hammell Bigi McHugh Cadden Rose Frear Fisher Perhaps? Argument that that's our strongest 11 excluding Moult and arguing for Tanner and Bowman. McManus to play back up this early season perhaps. Yeah don't think that's far away from out strongest lineup at present. Although the prospect of Rose replacing McDonald doesn't fill me with confidence. Wonder what the script is with McManus. Having played with the u20s on Sat, is he gradually working his way back to fitness or will he be involved in the wheeling and dealing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Does look a strong team. I have concern though that it still lacks a make it happen/goal scorer style player that can make the difference in our league between challenging for top six or fighting relegation. If Moult moves on we will need 2 players of real quality up top to come in to have hopes of a top six finish this year. Agree with that although I'd add if Moult moves on I'd say we need 2 players of quality to keep us in the league! Good to see Carson starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 A lot of trialists in the Barrow team tonight. Although, that said, it was similar when they lost 2-1 to Blackburn at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Dunne injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 BBC Cumbria Radio commentary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/40558580 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 1-0 Barrow. Meltdown incoming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Goal conceded from a corner, near post We hit the post a couple minutes before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 You've hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't a pre season defeat to Gateshead. It's the context of the defeat in the wider scale of things. Because Scottish football is without doubt is absolutely dreadful by any objective measure and Motherwell have consistently been poor even at the current level of quality. So when I put down £700 odd quid for a couple of season tickets and then go along to our first pre-season match and see a team signed from English lower leagues or even non leagues, most of them 6 foot plus, pumping high balls to a lone striker against part timers from the fourth tier of Scottish football, and not only that but actually being outplayed, what am I supposed to think? That's nothing to do with fitness or experimentation. It's a footballing mentality that's sub standard and should not be accepted. This is the conclusion I draw - Motherwell FC, 30 years in the Scottish Premier League, are being turned into Ebbsfleet United before our very eyes. The standard of player, the standard of manager, the tactics, the footballing mentality, the standard of professionalism. It's just not good enough for a top national league side and all the excuses and explanation in the world doesn't change that. I don't even particularly care about our league position next season. What I'm extremely concerned about is the standard of football. So keep telling yourself everything is alright, as another 200 fans drift away, then the season after that another 150, then the season after that another 90. It's not good enough - and if you think it is you are part of the problem. You're having meltdowns all over the place at the minute mate. Calm doon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 A season (or three months) of 4-5-1 awaits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Strong team out tonight. Looks like our strongest line up, except Moult obviously. Carson, Tait, Heneghan, Kiprè, Hammell, McHugh, Bigirimana, Frear, Rose, Cadden and Fisher. Edit : no Dunne tonight, presume he must be nursing an injury. A strongish team Dezz, but not in an attacking sense, where we look a tad toothless. Fitness issues aside, I'd argue that McManus could replace Kipre to add more experience in the middle; Dunne might well replace Hammell and, if he can keep fit, he'll be the number 1 choice I'd think. Five midfielders and I can envisage Tanner, Bowman or someone else replacing Rose for example. Its hard to judge of course but I reckon we're about 3 or 4 players shy of our strongest team. Moult or not, I can't see this team lining up against Rangers. I'm confident that Robbo will want to add an experienced centre back at the very least. Hopefully too the line up will change for our competitive debut on Saturday. It may be that Robbo wants to test out his defensive capabilities this evening against a team exerting constant pressure and he may well have discussed tactics with his Barrow counterpart before the game. You'd hope that tonight's game will allow us to find out how this set up will protect Carson as our last line of defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Anyone listening to the BBC commentary? Did I hear Carson knocked back £1800 a week at Hartlepool? Generally, commentators are taken aback by how poor we are, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim64 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 From what I watched online and have witnessed against livi and Albion is there any pattern of play to our game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Disappointing that we haven't scored in our last two games ,keeping them for Hampden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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