Andy H Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Could you explain this bit further, what part of the "new rules" means it should be a booking? They took away the Triple whammy. Red Card, Penalty and presumably goal. Refs are only supposed to give red and a penalty for serious foul play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Tv footage was inconclusive with Carson but I think he might just be outside. Either way, totally avoidable and poor stuff. I still maintain McHugh's tackle was an extremely hard but fair tackle but if you can't tackle like that then that'll be that. Murray Davidson has a cheek to moan about it. Dunnes? Again footage was inconclusive but it didn't look like he touched him. Griffiths was extremely poor at their 3rd to put it mildly. I'd like to think it was just a perfect storm of terrible decisions by both us and the ref today but I'm slightly twitchy regarding the injuries, penalties and red cards we have incurred, regardless of circumstances, even at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 From what I just saw on alba the result flattered them, game could have gone either way before Carson got sent off. Positives- great desire from the team to keep going even when down to 8men Still a couple of bodies short but it's a long season and I'm far from worried at the moment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 They took away the Triple whammy. Red Card, Penalty and presumably goal. Refs are only supposed to give red and a penalty for serious foul play No that is wrong. It would only be a yellow card if the player made a genuine attempt to play the ball (i.e. a tackle or the goalkeeper coming out and diving at the feet of the attacker etc) but ended up fouling the attacker and sadly Dunne didn't do that either today or against Ross County. Players will still be red carded for all other fouls like pulling, pushing, clipping their heels etc that deny someone a goal scoring opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 New rule say if penalty given their is no longer a double whammy as in pen and sending off . The only way you can be sent off is if you deliberately stop goal scoring opportunity so if you foul and even if last man and it's not deliberate it's now a yellow and a pen .I am 99.99 % certain Dunne red card will be overturned as never deliberate if he even fouled him in 1st place as that's debatable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleeastdave Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Not so sure about Carson, his body was inside but his hands think was just outside, a bad decisionmyCarson IMO Dunne was just unlucky I thought, ok he did clip him but I thought he was shot with a sniper when the St Johnstone guy went down! I am not sure if it will be worthwhile appealing the red cards, But after Scott Brown's winning appeal at the end of the season I suppose we might be in with a chance....sorry it is Motherwell so no chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 New rule say if penalty given their is no longer a double whammy as in pen and sending off . The only way you can be sent off is if you deliberately stop goal scoring opportunity so if you foul and even if last man and it's not deliberate it's now a yellow and a pen .I am 99.99 % certain Dunne red card will be overturned as never deliberate if he even fouled him in 1st place as that's debatable . See my post above as you have misinterpreted the ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Verheul Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Partick went up there and won 3-0. But the Partick are team capable of getting 0. We are easy points because we gift atrocious goals every week. 8 in three games against top level opponents. Could have been 10 if Kenny Miller hadn't missed a sitter after Dunne's 'Zak' moment and the penalty save today. It's not good enough and if people accept this now we are only going one place. Now add in that we've given away three penalties in three matches and 4 red cards in three matches with Moult lucky to stay on against Rangers and you have an unsustainable problem. Already we are going into a hugely important home match (lets face it we are getting nothing off Hibs at Easter Road) with completely unnecessary suspensions on top of the injuries. It's like professions suicide. How can people accept this lack of professionalism? Not having a go here as I respect your it's your opinion but have you given steelboy your password recently. Normally after most games I come on here and have a look at everyone's views as we all see the game differently, and for the past few years I've usually (not always) agreed with yourself and Andy P's summaries as neither of you could be classed as happy clappers or pant wetters to use everyone's favourite steelmenisms but everything appears to be a negative at the moment. It's absolutely your right to voice these opinions and I respect that but it seems like you have a real downer on the club and especially Robinson's management at the moment. Again I appreciate that you are worried about the future of the club as you feel we are going backwards but I genuinely don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as we were last year under McGhee's shambles. Anyway back to the game, Carson's red card has to be slowed right down to see it was a wrong decision so I have sympathy with the officials on thay one, McHugh looked like a red to me and Dunne's is just a joke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 A team full of players with limited experience in this league having an impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Oh well,there goes the early-season optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Even if Carson is out, why is it a straight red? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop91 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Serious question for any moderator reading. Is there anyway of introducing an ignore option on here? Whilst I fully respect the fact that opinions are only just that and everyone is entitled to one. There's atleast half a dozen or more on this site that there desperation for motherwell to be shite far outweighs there want for them to do well. Would be great if the option was on here to not have to read there posts. The same as there is on p&b. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Ref got it wrong with Carson. Just paused it before he handled it no way that is outside the box I paused it as well and part of the ball may just have been on the line, however, it’s very difficult to say for certain. Shite quality (phone pic off the telly), however. this is the lead up and the point where Carson picked it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 SJ2310 unfortunately I am crap with IT so not able to post rules but if you google triple whammy at penalty you will see new rule says got to be deliberatel foul if stopping goal scoring opportunity to be sent off if penalty given so you may think I'm wrong but I disagree as sure I'm right . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Serious question for any moderator reading. Is there anyway of introducing an ignore option on here? Click your username at the top left, select "My Settings". There's an "Ignore" tab in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I wasn't there today but have just watched the second half on Alba - that was a strange one as, having heard about the sending-offs, I was expecting St. Johnstone to be giving us a pummelling but we never seemed to be under great pressure. We weren't threatening very much but St. Johnstone weren't threatening at all. It was only near the end when we were down to eight that they were exerting any pressure. We were really exposed at the last goal but that was to be expected considering the numerical advantage. I didn't pause it but Carson looked outside the box and Thomson obviously has to go with his initial judgement so I don't think he can be blamed if people can only prove him wrong by freezing video footage. I though McHugh's tackle was reckless and always would be a yellow card but it was very difficult to tell with Dunne's which may have been an accidental clip at worst. Initially I thought Carson looked poor at the third goal but it took a deflection off McHugh and he was trying to adjust his legs when it went through them. Strange game, second half anyway, where we didn't seem to play badly but ended up losing heavily due to a few moments of slackness, poor decision making and a lack of players in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop91 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Click your username at the top left, select "My Settings". There's an "Ignore" tab in there.cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 SJ2310 unfortunately I am crap with IT so not able to post rules but if you google triple whammy at penalty you will see new rule says got to be deliberatel foul if stopping goal scoring opportunity to be sent off if penalty given so you may think I'm wrong but I disagree as sure I'm right . You mean this section "Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off. A player, sent off player, substitute or substituted player who enters the field of play without the required referee’s permission and interferes with play or an opponent and denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity is guilty of a sending-off offence." taken from the International FA Board who are responsible for the rules of Football http://www.theifab.com/laws/fouls-and-misconduct/chapters/disciplinary-action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I think I've just twigged what's going on with Ya Bezzer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Verheul Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I have a dastardly theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I saw the game with my own eyes, did you? You'd have to be dead in the soul or totally deluded not to be angry with that performance. I made more effort getting here than most of the players did on the park. Totally unprofessional performance that was not even non league, it was juniors level. But yeah, keeping blaming the referees all the way to May. No surprise newly promoted Hibs turned over Rangers at Ibrox when we made excuses for not beating a rotten team at home. I was at the game, yes. As I have been at every one this season. I personally don't think it is quite as bad as you're making out. Their 1st 2 goals were piss poor defending by us, but they have some good players and took full advantage. We controlled large parts of the game, whilst lacking a cutting edge. All things considered things conspired against us today. We had a good result midweek and a poor one today. Hardly the toys oot the pram stuff you're coming out with. I have no idea what you're talking about re. blaming the ref. I haven't blamed the ref. I thought Mchugh should have walked and no idea about the other 2 as they were down the other side of the park. Your point about Hibs is also very strange. They're a bigger team with a bigger budget and better players. There was always a chance they'd take something off a poor Rangers side. No idea what that's got to do with our situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Not having a go here as I respect your it's your opinion but have you given steelboy your password recently. Normally after most games I come on here and have a look at everyone's views as we all see the game differently, and for the past few years I've usually (not always) agreed with yourself and Andy P's summaries as neither of you could be classed as happy clappers or pant wetters to use everyone's favourite steelmenisms but everything appears to be a negative at the moment. It's absolutely your right to voice these opinions and I respect that but it seems like you have a real downer on the club and especially Robinson's management at the moment. Again I appreciate that you are worried about the future of the club as you feel we are going backwards but I genuinely don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as we were last year under McGhee's shambles. Anyway back to the game, Carson's red card has to be slowed right down to see it was a wrong decision so I have sympathy with the officials on thay one, McHugh looked like a red to me and Dunne's is just a joke. For me Robinson has everytrhing to do to justify his appointment but I'm looking squarely at players today and in the other matches I've seen this season; unlike a few around here I actually go to games and today was my 6th of the 2017/18 season so I've seen more than most. But anyway, the players have an individual responsibility when they are on the field that's beyond team selection, tactics or even performance level. They have to behave on the field as professionals and currently we just aren't doing that. Lee McCulloch described St Johnstone as 'street smart' last week. They draw fouls where there is none and get away with them when there is. The problem is if St Johnstone are 'street smart' our guys are complete dopes. All those red cards, all those goals conceded today were completely avoidable. They fell hook, line and sinker for everyone of them. It's brainless football we are playing right now with brainless footballers. We need to shape up and stop using excuses. If we need a good referee to win a match we'll go down on a record low points tally. Players need to start engaging their brains and start making smart decisions and not put themselves into the kind of positions they put themselves into today. Today was easy for St. Johnstone to defend, easy for them to score. We are just easy to play against and easy to take points off. Instead of bemoaning the referee or quoting possession stats people should be asking why a poor Rangers team last week can beat us at home or a St. Johnstone team that barely got out of second gear can put four past us with ease. Now we can go on further into the season with heads in the sand or we can go on and try and address some fairly major issues that have been exposed this early into the season. I know what I want Robinson to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Well I was at the game and its fair to say its one of the oddest I've witnessed in almost 60 years. I'll not comment on the 3 red cards as I haven't seen them in detail. I thought mistakes were made in the team selection. We lacked pace and movement up front and perhaps, and I say perhaps, MacLean could have given us that. Predictably left wing was a problem for us. We started off well and controlled the game and swung over cross after cross into Saints' box with little effect. Plenty of possession and graft but no cutting edge. After perhaps 20 minutes of pressure we failed to register one effort on goal. Saints broke away and predictably scored 2 goals with 2 attacks. the first one relying on spades of good luck. Bowman and Fisher worked damned hard but did nothing admittedly, with poor service. Poor defending did cost us and thats what Saints are good at - making few mistakes and scoring when the chance presents itself. Over the piece we didn't play badly but lacked experience and streetwiseness. Up front is where our problems lie. Neither Fisher nor Bowman look like doing the business at this level. Hard work in life by itself counts for nothing. As we lost men Saints began to dominate the game as you'd expect. They've now picked up 6 points by beating 2 teams in close fought games as they do. I can't go on without referring to the referee. Red cards apart he had a poor and inconsistent game. He missed 2 blatant hand balls, at close range and a cast iron penalty in my book when Paton, I think, grabbed Moult by the throat at a corner. However you dress it up Paton did not do that by accident. I'd also like him to explain to me why he checked our players 6 times for stealing yards at throw ins and did not pull up Saints once, not once, for similar indiscretions. Failing to give the advantage when Moult was fouled was not something you expect from an experienced referee. As far as Robbo is concerned he must address 2 weaknesses: occasional errors at the back and lack of bite/punch up front. The latter is now becoming a worry. Overall though I'm not overly concerned. We've had 2 tough closely fought league games and sustained two losses with little or no luck. Normally after a defeat I'm hard on the team, but not today. I was one who applauded them off the field for fighting well even when down to 8 men and not giving up. A number of players, including Louis Moult, appreciated that and came over to acknowledge the applause. One final thought is it normal practice for the 3 match officials to leave the pitch before most of the players? I always thought the ref was last to leave. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Just watched the game on Alba. First and foremost, the performance wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be. I thought Andy Rose was out motm although I'm not sure what his best position is. I'm yet to be convinced by Bigirimana - ineffective on the pitch and I didn't like his failure to acknowledge Griffiths at the substitution. The poor decision making for the first two goals appears to be engrained in Motherwell fullbacks. Unfortunately, with Bowman upfront we don't have the required quality to make amends for the inevitable defensive lapses. Shame, as St Johnstone and Rangers have been there for the taking. Regarding the sendings off, the tv coverage for Carson is inconclusive but I can understand the ref making the decision he did. Dunne looks like a very harsh call. McHugh, stonewall sending off, another disappointing week for the captain we all wanted. Regarding the squad, we really need to address the limited options up front. Character will only take you so far, we need a bit of quality to replace McDonald and Ainsworth, O'Halloran would have been ideal imo. Presumably we have someone lined up but the delay in signing a pacy forward has probably cost us at least 2 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 It's hard to say conclusively that no part of the ball was inside the box. It's comparable to when you see a corner kick taken with just a slither of the ball hanging over the quadrant. Any part of the ball inside the box should mean it is inside? McHugh's second yellow wasn't the violent close to a straight red that has been suggested, it was a robust challenge but unfortunately that sort of challenge sometimes gets a yellow. This issue was the needless first yellow. Dunne, I have no idea if he clipped the boy. We must have had about 60% possession but did very little with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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