brainier Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Yes, we can appeal on the grounds it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity. Keepers handling outside the box is not an automatic red card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Pretty clear from the Sportscene coverage that Carson handled the ball outside the box. Unless we can appeal on the grounds that it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity, there is no point appealing. As has been mentioned, really poor from Carson. Dunne's red card will be rescinded. Yip as I suspected Carson handled outside the box as his standing foot was in front of the line when he initially touched the ball. Dunne’s red card will be rescinded and if there is any justice the St. Johnstone boy should be punished for diving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hopefully that type of bad decision making from Carson is just a blip. And Griffiths hollow body for their 3rd. Just when we were looking forward to having a reliable keeper after suffering Samson!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 A bit harsh on Griffiths in my opinion, it looked like it took a pretty sizeable deflection on the way through. It's kind of ironic but I doubt it would have happened with Samson as he would have been rooted to his line which would have forced Kipre to try to clear it. Mind you, I'm sure he would have thrown a couple at the feet of St Johnstone players just to make up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Swings and roundabouts then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Was Griffiths also unsighted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Was there on Saturday as the curse of going to my local "away" game struck again. However, won't forget this one in a hurry as don't think I've ever left a stadium more angered in all my days following the 'Well. Craig Thompson was an utter disgrace and ruined the game, simple. A level of incompetence I have never seen before, which is truly something when you consider the standard of our refereeing in Scotland. I work with a good few St. Johnstone fans who were there and one of them actually asked me this morning "why has Thompson got it in for Motherwell?" and is clearly of the opinion that we were extremely harshly dealt with. And it's not just the red cards (I will come to in a second) it was repositioning our guys at every throw in, the failure to allow Moult's advantage, awarding goals kicks when it was clearly corners, the amount of free-kicks he was dishing out that were never fouls - St Johnstone's first goal in particular which was a blatant hand ball by Davidson and should have been our free-kick and a yellow card. Thompson had to be the centre of attention. The red cards were all hard to judge, and even from TV replays they are all inconclusive for me. So for that simple reason, the direction Thompson has is he has to 100% sure, especially with game changing incidents. True, Carson's red is complete unavoidable if he sticks his boot clean through it, but it has to be intentional or denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity to be red and it was clearly neither. Should never have been red and by the letter of the law, it should be rescinded. The fact the linesman never reacted at all tells me that he wasn't 100% sure and he was much closer than Thompson. For me, McHugh's wasn't even a foul as he took the ball as clean as a whistle in front of all the away fans and it was the St. Johnstone player who milked it but do accept that going to ground with both feet is just asking for a booking and his is the only one we have to take on the chin. Given he was already on a yellow, would expect him to maintain a higher level of composure as our Captain, but can understand he must have been incredibly frustrated with Thompson. Finally, the Dunne red card which is never, ever a red card or indeed a foul in a million years and is a booking for diving. Simple. Watch Thompson during the highlights, his whistle is in his mouth before the St. Johnstone player hits the deck. Utterly disgraceful decision, completely incompetent. If we are going by the laws of the game, then I genuinely think we will be successful with both Dunne and Carson's appeals and that to me will turn a massive spotlight on Thompson. I know it may sound extreme and futile, but if I was the club I would be speaking with my lawyers to possibly lodge an official complaint with the SFA as we know they won't act at all on Thompson blatant incompetency as it will cost clubs (not just us) points this season. The referee display is such a big deal as I genuinely thought we were the better team and very much in control until Carson's red. Both their goals came against the run of play, with the first extremely fortunate and the second a decent individual goal made far too easy by some poor defending. At the start of the 2nd half, we were all over them and I genuinely believe an equaliser was coming. Bigi was poor with his distribution, Fisher offered very little and we had a few individual mistakes at the back with Kipre having his wobbliest performance since arriving. I thought Rose played well, as did Cadden, Dunne and Tait (his part in O'Halloran's goal aside). Also think Bowman had a solid game despite what others have said, winning everything in the air and holding up play well although I agree he lacks the extra edge we require for him to become our talisman. The one think that has again caused me a little concern is our utter reliance on playing down the wings and putting crosses in. We yet again had loads of crosses that produced very little and I fear that Robinson's reliance on this could prove to be our downfall. When it doesn't work, or we get stuck, we resort to launching the ball up top which is a little hit and hope stuff for my liking. We clearly lack a "plan B" and the players are clearly instructed to work it down the wings rather than play through the middle. In our two league games so far this season we must have delivered over 50 crosses at least, and not got a single goal from them. In fact our two goals have came from set plays, and weren't scored by our strikers. If we had someone like Lukaku leading our line, then I could see the merit in this approach, but with Moult, Bowman or Fisher it's all unnatural to their style of play. Anyway, apologies for the length of post. Just my take from a hugely frustrating day that has taken me until now to calm down enough to comment on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Did you miss the picture of Carson handling outside the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Did you miss the picture of Carson handling outside the box? A good thought provoking post by Well Up For It. In the great scheme of things a minor issue. If accepted, then a yellow card instead of a red. Player should still not have been sent off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 The fact the linesman never reacted at all tells me that he wasn't 100% sure and he was much closer than Thompson. TV clearly showed Thomson on his mic asking his linesman whether the ball was in or outside the line. This was highlighted on Sportscene last night from a camera view behind the goal. The linesman got it spot on. Should it have been a red? probably not. However, Carson should have booted the ball into row Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Did you miss the picture of Carson handling outside the box? Yeah a picture, zoomed in from paused TV highlights. Still not a red card, like I said. Thompson had to be 100% sure when he issued the card and it appears impossible for him to be as such given it took said zoomed in picture from a paused TV. Happy to accept he was outside box, but still not a red card. Not entirely sure what point your are trying to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 " I thought we played really well. We dominated possession" No disrespect El grew , everyone has their own opinion, but I'm beginning to wonder if I was at a different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I'm not so sure the powers that be will rescind any of the reds to be honest. Self preservation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I think Dunnes red card will get rescinded, but the trade off will be Carson. Given the tv evidence available its hard to argue that he didnt deliberately handle it. They will therefore argue he has denied a clear goal scoring opportunity, albeit that with Kipre and Carson both in attendance, its not that clear. I agree with those raising concerns re over reliance on wing play and cross balls. Despite Fishers aerial prowess its not been that successful. I had thought Bigirimana would give us the option to play passes through the middle, but that hasnt really happened yet (Queens Park game aside). Still early days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I never made it to the game, due to one of the kids playing football on Saturday afternoon, and I never seen the match either despite taking the prior steps to record BBC Albas coverage...I wasn't up for watching the full 90mins after I heard we were down 4-1 and to 8 men. However, there was a neutral observer there that I know, who was watching us and St Johnstone on behalf of another Premier League team, who suggested that 'Motherwell were by far the dominant side, until St Johnstone scored a goal from nowhere' and we 'then imploded'...he said, we looked big, strong, well-drilled and confident. He made mention of the refeering decisions, but didn't really expand on it at the time. Having now seen the 3 red cards (still not seen the goals), I reckon the only one we have any chance of over-turning is the last one, which was a clear dive. McHugh has made it easy for the referee to send him off, while Carson has had an absolute brain-fart. To the naked eye, he looks a mile outside the box, when its slowed down it isnt as bad as that though definitely outside, but at full speed it looks like he is way out...the easy thing for him to do there is clear his lines, but he has misjudged either the speed of the ball, or the player closing him down and left himself out on a limb. As for, is it a red or a yellow? For me, its as clear a 'denial of a goalscoring opportunity' as you'll ever see, hes grabbed hold of a ball that a striker is attempting to get on the end of, to kick into an empty net. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't get the clear goal scoring opportunity chat. At no point is Wootherspoon favourite to get the ball, nor is he at any time in control of said ball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't get the clear goal scoring opportunity chat. At no point is Wootherspoon favourite to get the ball, nor is he at any time in control of said ball. I tend to agree with this. Normally the "clear goal scoring opportunity" chat relates to a player taking someone out who is bearing down on goal - the suggestion being that if the defender doesn't commit the foul, then the striker has an easy route through to goal. That's just not the case here - if Carson doesn't commit the foul by picking up the ball, he doesn't suddenly evaporate - he remains in the closest proximity to the ball and would almost certainly have been on hand to boot the ball out of play (like he should have done anyway) or at least block any attempt by Wotherspoon to win the ball (although, as you point out, Wotherspoon isn't favourite to get there or in control of the ball at any stage). That's not to mention Kipre being nearby too. That's where the differences are for me. I'd be giving a yellow card there because I don't agree it's a goal scoring opportunity if Carson doesn't pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I tend to agree with this. Normally the "clear goal scoring opportunity" chat relates to a player taking someone out who is bearing down on goal - the suggestion being that if the defender doesn't commit the foul, then the striker has an easy route through to goal. That's just not the case here - if Carson doesn't commit the foul by picking up the ball, he doesn't suddenly evaporate - he remains in the closest proximity to the ball and would almost certainly have been on hand to boot the ball out of play (like he should have done anyway) or at least block any attempt by Wotherspoon to win the ball (although, as you point out, Wotherspoon isn't favourite to get there or in control of the ball at any stage). That's not to mention Kipre being nearby too. That's where the differences are for me. I'd be giving a yellow card there because I don't agree it's a goal scoring opportunity if Carson doesn't pick it up. Wotherspoon is also outside of the penalty box and not directly in front of goals. He's also running a slight angle away from the goals. In short he'd have to win the ball, control it, and beat 2 men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Yeah a picture, zoomed in from paused TV highlights. Still not a red card, like I said. Thompson had to be 100% sure when he issued the card and it appears impossible for him to be as such given it took said zoomed in picture from a paused TV. Happy to accept he was outside box, but still not a red card. Not entirely sure what point your are trying to make? It was a stonewall red card. He handles outside the box. It's definitely a goal scoring opportunity because if he lets it run by him Witherspoon has an empty net. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 It was a stonewall red card. He handles outside the box. It's definitely a goal scoring opportunity because if he lets it run by him Witherspoon has an empty net. if carson runs out and shouts then puts his boot through it into the stand then the ref doesn't need to make a descision __that's what theylearn you to do from under 7s if in doubt,,,,,,,, f@ck it out simpleeeezzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Two weeks into the season and poor refereeing or referee interpretation has been the talking point of both our games It's the lack of consistency that annoys the tits of me......ball to hand/arm in unnatural position......stone wall penalty . Dunne red carded X 2 denying goal scoring opportunity.......accies/ Dundee two penalties no red cards watching sportscene the major talking points in the majority of the games are about poor refereeing decisions.......Stokes not red carded, no penalty for Thistle etc etc etc.......... Yet these clowns will be ruining another game next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 It was a stonewall red card. He handles outside the box. It's definitely a goal scoring opportunity because if he lets it run by him Witherspoon has an empty net. Imagine you'll be absolutely traumatised should the appeal be successful then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I wound expect Carson,s not to be overturned not because I think it's a goal scoring opportunity but because Dunne,s is a certainty to be overturned so if overturned 2 would show Thompson to be an incompetent twat and the SFA couldn't have that even though we all know he is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 It was a stonewall red card. He handles outside the box. It's definitely a goal scoring opportunity because if he lets it run by him Witherspoon has an empty net. Its not often I agree with you Stu... ...I've seen folk suggesting it was arc'd over the 18 yard line like we see at corner kicks, and I've seen suggestions that it wasn't a clear goalscoring opportunity that he prevented with his hands outside the box...we will make a fool of ourselves, by running with either line of defence. It was a red all day long 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellowell Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 As we say football is all about opinions some think it's a red card some dont but for me neither argument is guaranteed as it's down to interpretation . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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