Time To Take A Stand Against Diving?

[MFCL84]

Yesterday we witnessed a not atypical act of diving which both player and manager have since attempted to justify. This type of thing will no doubt happen many times across the country throughout the remainder of the season. In a league game this would have been bad enough, but in a cup final it takes on a completely different magnitude. Undoubtedly, the incident had a major bearing on the match as a spectacle, destroyed any prospect of an entertaining final 30 mins and deprived the Motherwell players of any chance of a cup winners medal and the paying fans the chance of watching the teams battle it out on equal terms, and I haven't mentioned what it might mean financially in terms of win bonus to some players.

 

Put aside the refereeing decision, if players don't dive, the ref doesn't have a decision to make. If a player has an opportunity he should do what he can to stay on his feet and make the most of it. It seems that players take the opposite view to go down, get the penalty and get the opponent sent off.

 

Obviously, because the frequency of diving isn't getting any less, the penalties for such behaviour are not sufficient. It needs to be stamped out of the game, and the only way to do it is to dish out more severe penalties.

 

What penalties would work, I don't know, but some ideas;

- multiple game ban

- severe fine

- strip player of medal if it happens in a cup final

- fine the club

- deduct points if it happens in a league match

 

You may think some of these are too severe, but as a Motherwell fan who has only seen his team compete in 4 major finals in over half a century, I feel that I was deprived of seeing my team have a fair crack yesterday.

 

I've no idea how, as fans, we can make anything happen, but it is time to say something. As a fan owned club can we lead by example? Can the Well Society do something alongside the authorities running the game? I know that I may be naïve thinking that anything will change, but as owners of the club, surely we can at least be heard.

 

It is time for the authorities to take this problem seriously.

[stuwell]

Difficult to be objective after yesterday but the only way forward is video review of incidents

[Lobey_Dosser]

Difficult to be objective after yesterday but the only way forward is video review of incidents

Agreed, VAR is the only way to address refereeing incompetence, which is the key issue here.

[Shaka]

We get on with it and take our medicine. Celtic (and Rangers) run scottish football. We are a diddy team and are worth nothing but utter contempt.

 

You see when it happens to Celtic, there is a witch hunt and the player gets abused along with a ban. When Celtic players do it, our compliant media sweep it under the carpet and its ignored.

 

Dont get worked up, you cant change anything!

[MFCL84]

Agreed, VAR is the only way to address refereeing incompetence, which is the key issue here.

Yes, refereeing standards are a consideration, but that is different from players creating incidents for the ref to judge. If there is nothing to judge they won't get it wrong.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Yes, refereeing standards are a consideration, but that is different from players creating incidents for the ref to judge. If there is nothing to judge they won't get it wrong.

Players will always cheat, its human nature. In game VAR to punish them though could be a partial solution.

[MFCL84]

I just don't see in game VAR being viable unless there are multiple cameras at all games. If it was feasible then OK, but there would still need to be a punishment set at a level aimed at quashing that behaviour.

[Andy_P]

It's a difficult one. You always stand accused in situations such as ours as only being bothered because we've been the victims of the injustice. I would bet if they aren't up there already there will be plenty Celtic fans trawling past games looking for evidence of Motherwell players going down under no, or limited contact and gleefully posting them on social media.

 

 

However whilst you still get mistakes and incorrect decisions through video referees, and things will still be missed, to me the principle of providing as much footage, evidence and information to assist a refereeing team when there is doubt is a sound one in my view.

 

I didn't really pay too much attention to its use in the Confederations Cup, although I remember one high profile farcical example of its use which demonstrates it isn't foolproof, but have seen it used extensively in rugby and it can be a very useful asset. You need only look back on the game changing red card for example in the Scotland v Australia game on Saturday.

 

There will be the argument about not having all angles covered or it won't be in use in lower level games but you use what you have when it's there and take the benefits accordingly. Not all games in rugby have it, such as the Glasgow Warriors game yesterday. It doesn't mean games can't go ahead without it. We still play SPFL games without officials behind the goals they have in European games for example.

 

Some will argue it will add however many extra minutes to a game and can break the flow of a game. That's true but surely you wouldn't be upset kicking about a game for an extra five minutes if it meant they got the decision right and lead to your team getting the points? I have also seen it's use in rugby add another layer of drama to proceedings as the ref makes his decision.

 

So no, I wouldn't be averse to something being introduced that offered an opportunity to review contentious incidents mid-game with the continuation of the policy that things can be retrospectively reviewed as should be the case with Sinclair's simulation.

[numpty]

They've been using VAR in the MLS and the Bundesliga as well this year, haven't they? Anyone who watches those any comment on how it's going?

[Yassin]

There's no way this could ever come back to haunt us.

[weeyin]

The time to take a stand against diving was about 40 years ago. It's part of the game now, and will be difficult to stamp out even with draconian measures like retrospective bans.

 

There are obvious exceptions, but there are so many grey areas it makes it difficult to police.

 

Falling over when your shirt is tugged, intentionally tripping over a defender's outstretched leg, knocking the ball past a player then running into them etc.

 

It's my number one pet peeve in the game, especially as we know which teams are going to get more benefits of the doubt in their favour.

[sbcmfc]

The problem is, referees very rarely give a penalty when a player doesnt go down. Theres an example I saw online earlier of Scott Sinclair being pulled back for about 5 yards, staying on his feet and no foul. (There is also a complete dive at Dens in the 1/4 final)

 

If referees start giving penalties when a player is fouled but tries to stay on their feet, maybe they wont feel the need to make a meal of any contact.

 

That said, there was no foul for Sinclair to exaggerate. He just took a dive.

[postiejim]

I see some Celtic fan on Twitter saying that that he hoped the SFA were looking into the comments made by Robinson and some of the players about the penalty decision,as they were .....wait for it...." bringing the game into disrepute".

[numpty]

If they go after Robbo for that, they'll have to ban Neil Lennon for life for what he said about it on live national TV.

[texanwellfan]

What did Lennon say?

[Andy H]

After a shaky start, VAR is working really well in the Bundesliga. One aspect I like is the Video ref can call attention to something that has been missed. After that farce yesterday we really need to be looking at it

[milo]

What did Lennon say?

Basically that he dived and it was also never a red card.

[stv]

We were using video evidence years ago . Eg colin oneil v peter grant. It should have progressesd by now onto live matches. How many goals would we have got last season with technology on matchday. The game is now too fast and too much at stake to expect footballers no to cheat if they think they can get away with it . It always goes for the big team, can you imagine if we had got that penlty and one of them sent off . No chance.

[Kmcalpin]

Diving is an unacceptable part of today's game. However before we start punishing players for simulation we have to target their managers; in other words start at the top. Some managers encourage it and others turn a blind eye to it.

[GraniteCityMFC]

Diving is an unacceptable part of today's game. However before we start punishing players for simulation we have to target their managers; in other words start at the top. Some managers encourage it and others turn a blind eye to it.

Exactly this.

 

I can't remember who said it on the radio after match, think it might have been Faddy, but admitted that players are coached to go down.

[numpty]

Basically that he dived and it was also never a red card.

More specifically:

"I have to say the decision's disgraceful. The penalty decision's disgraceful. I don't like to see that sort of thing. There's minimal contact, the player goes down. And not only do they get the penalty against them, they get a red card as well"

[sbcmfc]

Exactly this.

 

I can't remember who said it on the radio after match, think it might have been Faddy, but admitted that players are coached to go down.

I remember getting told that 20 years ago playing u-15s, so its not a new thing.

 

As I say, if referees start giving fouls, particularly in and around the penalty area when players dont go down, well be halfway there.

[weeyin]

As someone mentioned earlier, it feels like refs just won't give a penalty unless a player goes down. The message that sends is "go down every time there's contact."

 

Personally, I'd apply retroactive bans to all divers - starting at about 10 games. That's how much I hate it.

[underboyleheating]

They use video evidence to great effect in high profile rugby games so I’m not sure why we can’t do the same in high profile football games.

[well_said]

Video evidence will never happen as it would mean all teams treated fairly ,and we as all know that that would be a distinct disadvantage to the bigot brothers.