Scottish Referees

[GazzyB]

I used to think it was incompetent, now I'm convinced it's corrupt.

[Lukemfc1]

I was never one for corruption theories however I think that Brenda now controls Scottish football. He is influencing the SFA via the media. The baw is officially burst. I have never been so angry at a football game in my life. Collum done that out of bias. Not incompetence, although he is that too.

 

I love robbo and get the reasons why he has stayed quiet but I genuinely think we need to stand up to this. Regardless of the consequences.

[Andy H]

Can we have an option for both?

[Big Wispy Flossy]

Theres absolutely no doubt that Brendans comments in the lead up to the game influenced the decision so therefore it is corrupt

[Well Up For It!]

For me, I'd add third option that ties into both other summaries...they aren't held accountable.

 

This allows incompotence to fester and go unchecked and allow a degree of morale corruption to seep in.

 

Far greater transparency is needed...post match comments from referees, post match review panel, public rating system from SFA, VAR where possible, having refs wear a mic, etc.

 

This will allow a far better understanding, and dare I say sympathy, for the role of a referee and could almost immediately end any festering corruption and bring some positivity to what is a veru hard role.

 

The state of our refs lie firmly at the SFA's door and something has been needed for a long time. Only on song with us right now due to two horrendous penalty decisiona in 4 days.

[weeyin]

They are just as bad in the other leagues I follow.

 

While I am in no way defending them, it's the cheating players that are more to blame. The punishments for conning the ref are far less severe than the benefit they get if they succeed. So there's not much to lose for them.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Incompetent but the lack of talent isnt limited to Scottish football.

 

The sooner VAR is introduced the better.

[Pepper]

The fact that the Head of Referee's clearly out of his depth son has been fast tracked through the system says it all.

[StipeIsGod]

For me, I'd add third option that ties into both other summaries...they aren't held accountable.

 

This allows incompotence to fester and go unchecked and allow a degree of morale corruption to seep in.

 

Far greater transparency is needed...post match comments from referees, post match review panel, public rating system from SFA, VAR where possible, having refs wear a mic, etc.

 

This will allow a far better understanding, and dare I say sympathy, for the role of a referee and could almost immediately end any festering corruption and bring some positivity to what is a veru hard role.

 

The state of our refs lie firmly at the SFA's door and something has been needed for a long time. Only on song with us right now due to two horrendous penalty decisiona in 4 days.

Outstanding.

[Richie]

Its a mixture of shitebaggery and 'guesswork'/'hope for the best-work'

Makes life easier to give/deny in alot of cases.

I dont think the refs go into the game actively looking to give/deny decisions, but they fold in the seconds during which the decision is Made.

Apparently refs have to be certain to penalise, but that clearly isnt the case in some instances.

[fat_tony]

They are just as bad in the other leagues I follow.

 

While I am in no way defending them, it's the cheating players that are more to blame. The punishment for conning the ref are far less severe than the benefit they get if they succeed. So there's not much to lose for them.

Thats exactly why the system needs to change. Footballs faster and more complicated than it used to be, and officials just cant be expected to keep up without the aid of technology to assist their decision making. Coupled with accountability, its the only way in my opinion to improve things.

 

The other big problem, and why the likes of Thompson and Collum keep getting games with no punishment, is that theres simply nobody else.

[joewarkfanclub]

I have always been of the opinion that our referees are more incompetent than corrupt and that their job isnt made any easier by players who go dive or feign injury. Sometimes their view is obstructed and they only get one chance to see what happened. However, that tonight is just inexplicable.

[CoF]

While I am in no way defending them, it's the cheating players that are more to blame. The punishment for conning the ref are far less severe than the benefit they get if they succeed. So there's not much to lose for them.

 

This is it.

 

I can accept honest mistakes, and that's what I believe most (if not all) refereeing errors are.

 

The bigger issue here is the players and how their actions are assessed afterwards. Someone posted a link the other day to an English disciplinary hearing (bbc article I think) and they decided that while contact had been made by the defender, the fall of the attacker wasn't proportionate to the level of contact therefore it was deemed simulation. That's a sensible way to look at it and could easily be applied to both Sinclair and McGregor. Players would soon stop turning contact into a foul.

 

When you have that freaky waxwork who manages the SPFL's biggest club actively promoting his players diving as an acceptable part of the game then we can see exactly where the problem is.

 

The ref's are shite and always will be, but the bigger problem is the players, managers and a lack a robust and reasonable disciplinary process.

[Shaka]

It is 100% corruption. Not in the underhand taking a bung type way and I dont believe Refs go out thinking they are going to send someone off or give a decision, but its corruption all the same and heres why.

 

1.You get Saint Brendan in the press bleating about decisions and Celtic not getting enough penalties, our compliant media lap it up,

2.Players like Scott Brown and the Celtic team in general are given mythical status and our compliant media lap it up,

3. There is no real accountability for referees and they know the automatic fall back is "oh its just an honest mistake" so they take time and think about decisions for Motherwell/Partick/Dundee but automatically go with the easy decision for Rangers & Celtic

4. Celtic dont get a decision and lose, the Referee is blasted in the press, Celtic officials go on about "Clarification" and runs the risk of getting abuse in public/windows put in

 

All of these factors are taken into account by a referee and influence his decisions before the game even starts. You saw it the other season when Rangers had a man sent off in 5 mins v us, the ref couldnt wait to "even it up". In the cup final, Celtic are a far bigger team and 1-0 up already, pen is easy cause they are "still gonna win the game" so its given. I fucking hate Scottish Football and the corruption along with the behaviour of Rangers (and especially) Celtic fans and players is the biggest part of why. Fucking scum

[ONeils40yarder]

They are just as bad in the other leagues I follow.

 

While I am in no way defending them, it's the cheating players that are more to blame. The punishments for conning the ref are far less severe than the benefit they get if they succeed. So there's not much to lose for them.

 

See in general, I agree with that, I watch football at all levels from boys club up to International and referees are forever making mistakes, or being manipulated into making decisions by fans, players coaches...however, that last night just seemed different, he couldn't wait to point to the spot in the 88th minute of a match, in which Celtic would have been beaten for the 1st time in 60-odd games domestically. He was what, half-a-dozen yards away from the incident, and he must have been the only person in the stadium to believe that it was a foul on the tim? He wanted to give it, and thats what he done.

[Well Up For It!]

It is 100% corruption. Not in the underhand taking a bung type way and I dont believe Refs go out thinking they are going to send someone off or give a decision, but its corruption all the same and heres why.

 

1.You get Saint Brendan in the press bleating about decisions and Celtic not getting enough penalties, our compliant media lap it up,

2.Players like Scott Brown and the Celtic team in general are given mythical status and our compliant media lap it up,

3. There is no real accountability for referees and they know the automatic fall back is "oh its just an honest mistake" so they take time and think about decisions for Motherwell/Partick/Dundee but automatically go with the easy decision for Rangers & Celtic

4. Celtic dont get a decision and lose, the Referee is blasted in the press, Celtic officials go on about "Clarification" and runs the risk of getting abuse in public/windows put in

 

All of these factors are taken into account by a referee and influence his decisions before the game even starts. You saw it the other season when Rangers had a man sent off in 5 mins v us, the ref couldnt wait to "even it up". In the cup final, Celtic are a far bigger team and 1-0 up already, pen is easy cause they are "still gonna win the game" so its given. I fucking hate Scottish Football and the corruption along with the behaviour of Rangers (and especially) Celtic fans and players is the biggest part of why. Fucking scum

 

Great point as well, although for me that for me is a lack of integrity over corruption.

 

The point you make about things being played out in the press is very valid. A friend of mine who can't stand football (big rugby fan) said that we have a reputation for being hatchet men, which he has obviously gleamed from the press. And we most certainly aren't hatchet me. Big, strong, aggressive; yes, but never a dirty team. That perception has been allowed to flourish through utterly inept reporting from the MSM following on from Bowman-gate. I'm not a legal expert, but pretty sure a lot of the stuff published in very libellous.

 

So this "perception" is most definitely on the Old Firm fans mind, as the only ones still stupid enough to digest our sports press in this country, and that will affect the game. For me, it is also seeping into the minds of referees where they are believing what is written by absolute hatchet "journalists".

 

We need new rules and laws to govern this, managers who categorically deny wrong doing when it is later proved (ie, was definitely a penalty) one game touchline ban for bringing game into disrepute. We also need journalists who can press the status quo and question the bullshit, not bowing down to the manager of ANY team. Finally we need a controlling body that can take control from two clubs and not be afraid to stand up to them. Celtic/Rangers has zero authority over the SFA, yet the spineless cowards in charge are terrified of them. For what?

 

I would love to see the club lawyer up over this an make a real issue over it. Until someone does, then it will never change. Our refs will still be incompetent, the media will control the agenda and the big clubs will get all the decisions.

[fat_tony]

We also need journalists who can press the status quo and question the bullshit, not bowing down to the manager of ANY team.

 

The trouble with that is that any journalists willing to do so are not going to be given the podium to do it. The mainstream media in this country has its core demographic, and no editor is going to risk alienating the bulk of their customers. Newspapers etc. are no longer about reporting the truth, they're about making money, plain and simple.

 

That leaves it to online and local press to ask the difficult questions and challenge things, which unfortunately just doesn't get the same widespread coverage.

[Well Up For It!]

 

The trouble with that is that any journalists willing to do so are not going to be given the podium to do it. The mainstream media in this country has its core demographic, and no editor is going to risk alienating the bulk of their customers. Newspapers etc. are no longer about reporting the truth, they're about making money, plain and simple.

 

That leaves it to online and local press to ask the difficult questions and challenge things, which unfortunately just doesn't get the same widespread coverage.

 

While I get what you are saying, in today's digital age any journalist brave enough to make a stand would get the social media support. Maybe not the exposure of newspapers, TV or radio sure, but would be an origin point.

 

Something has to give.

[Kmcalpin]

Could we add "Bias" to the poll?

[GazzyB]

Bias and corruption are surely the same thing?

[numpty]

Bias and corruption are surely the same thing?

Corruption is intentional and usually involves money or some other favours changing hands. Bias is subconscious and unpaid.

[Kmcalpin]

I've come to the conclusion that we have bias, corruption and incompetence affecting referees in Scotland (and elsewhere). I doubt if anyone could stand up and say hand on heart that there is absolutely no corruption in Scottish refereeing. Statistically any organisation including the Police, Health Service, education authority, local council, national government, private company or whatever is liable to have at least one bad apple in its midst. I doubt if Scottish refereeing is any different to other organisations in society.

 

Bias is totally a different matter. Referees are supposed to be 100% unbiased but they fall well short of that standard. I think it was Liverpool University which conducted some research into this topic some years ago and it concluded that referees were influenced unduly by big teams and we all know who they are in the goldfish bowl of Scottish football. Some bias is conscious some unconscious. There is huge pressure from fans and media for referees to be favourable to the gruesome twosome and of course there is also the perfectly human fear of victimisation should a referee make an unpopular decision.

 

Then we have incompetence. Refereeing is hard; its very difficult. They have to make split second decisions often whilst poorly sighted or being conned by players. I get that. However they are not openly accountable and the whole process is shrouded in secrecy. Fans are the lifeblood of the game, the paying public, and they deserve a reasonable explanation of decisions. The entire SFA refereeing function is simply not effective nor efficient and needs total scrutiny and improvement.

 

Referees themselves are human and like ourselves make mistakes and I understand that. They need to be fitter, and better trained to ensure consistency. They also need to have the benefit of action replays to allow them to quickly review game changing decisions. They need to be accountable and explain themselves publicly. They also need more support and protection.

 

Willie Collum last night made numerous mistakes from start to finish and eventually a game changing one. One "middle ranking" incident convinced me of the validity of the biased argument. Armstong committed a professional foul on one of our lads in midfield by taking him out and a foul was awarded (so, Collum saw it). Later in the game Alan Campbell committed an almost identical foul in the same area of the pitch but was given a yellow card. That was down to inconsistency and you can't come to any other reasonable conclusion except bias.

 

Collum's late game changing penalty blunder speaks for itself - he was right on the spot.

[something else]

 

While I am in no way defending them, it's the cheating players that are more to blame.

 

Louis Moult went down twice in the last 2 games. Questionable fouls in the box that weren't given. Sinclair and McGregor went down under questionable decisions and both were given. That's corrupt refereeing

[Kmcalpin]

Corruption is intentional and usually involves money or some other favours changing hands. Bias is subconscious and unpaid.

I agree about corruption but bias can be conscious and deliberate. When confronted by a controversial incident, a referee could think ...if I don't award a penalty here l'm going to get my windows panned/threatened/kids bullied/the media will vilify me.

[sbcmfc]

One "middle ranking" incident convinced me of the validity of the biased argument. Armstong committed a professional foul on one of our lads in midfield by taking him out and a foul was awarded (so, Collum saw it). Later in the game Alan Campbell committed an almost identical foul in the same area of the pitch but was given a yellow card. That was down to inconsistency and you can't come to any other reasonable conclusion except bias.

 

That was the one I would cite.

 

That was as clear a yellow card as youll get, textbook taking one for the team.

 

Compare such leniency with a sprint that usain bolt wouldve been proud of to book Louis Moult for a nothing challenge it looked like he didnt make any contact with on Brown.

 

The less said about what Scott Brown would actually need to do to get booked the better.